For those who believe same-sex attractions are a "cross to bear"

[followingtheway]

Do you believe God made someone gay? Why would God want to give people the desire to do something, and then say doing it is wrong? Why would God force celibacy on someone, doesn’t that violate free will? Shouldn’t someone be able to choose whether to become a Heterosexual or not? And why would God give someone “a cross” that causes them to be bullied, hated, and harassed?

These are problems with the idea that homosexuality is genetic. Even though I don’t reject the concept completely. And I’m not a homosexual.

 

[po18guy]

We are not forced to bear something. It is out of our intense love of God that we are called to embrace our crosses. The original cross was not forced upon JEsus - He chose it for our salvation. It might be helpful if you abandon the concept of God “forcing” things. Make no mistake, He can force what He wills, but what He does is out of love, which we are incapable of understanding.

 

[PennyinCanada]

God gets blamed for a lot of things.

Did you know that with all the women on contraceptive pills, peeing the hormone out, is affecting the sex of fish? We are releasing a ton of hormone into our drinking supply, and for years.

scienceagogo.com/news/20100306033422data_trunc_sys.shtml

Did you know that plastics are like synthetic female hormones? What have we been doing to our environment, releasing all this synthetic estrogen? All our food is wrapped in plastic, stored in plastic, transported in plastic. We ingest all this.

I really think we are poisoning ourselves and our planet. One way to dodge that bullet is to say that ‘it’s genetic’, therefore it’s not man made. Hmmmm…I’m not convinced.

 

[GEddie]

God did not give anybody the SSA. Even if it is genetic, it is a genetic disorder, like color-blindness, or muscular dystrophy. It is the result of physical entropy acting upon the genetic material of our human bodies.

God did not cause SSAs to be persecuted, any more than He caused members of racial or ethnic minorities to be persecuted. No one has any right to persecute anybody, it is a sin for everybody.

And if unmarried, everybody has sexual wants that they must not act upon. SSAs are no different.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Brendan]

Do you believe God made someone gay? Why would God want to give people the desire to do something, and then say doing it is wrong? .

OK, then how would you explain alcoholics?

They have a desire to do something, abuse alcohol, but we tell them to remain sober?

Or wife\child abusers? They desire to do something that is morally wrong, and we tell them to forbear as well.

The fact is, we ALL have desires to do things that are morally wrong. For some, it might be lying, for others it might be fornication, or gluttony, or intoxication, or commit violence.

We ALL must forbear from what is evil, in whatever form it manifests itself.

That includes homosexuals.

 

[RosaryFan]

Do you believe God made someone gay? Why would God want to give people the desire to do something, and then say doing it is wrong? Why would God force celibacy on someone, doesn’t that violate free will? Shouldn’t someone be able to choose whether to become a Heterosexual or not? And why would God give someone “a cross” that causes them to be bullied, hated, and harassed?

These are problems with the idea that homosexuality is genetic. Even though I don’t reject the concept completely. And I’m not a homosexual.

I don’t believe God “makes” someone gay anymore than I believe God “makes” someone get cancer or diabetes. God doesn’t give people the desire to do things that are immoral. That is our fallen nature which gives us such desires. God does not “force celibacy” on someone. Everyone has the freedom to marry. No one says a gay man cannot marry the woman of his choice. Now, if the gay man doesn’t WANT to marry a woman, that’s his problem. Many people don’t want to marry and desire to remain single. God does not “force” celibacy on them. This cross which causes bullying, hatred and harassment - God does not cause the bullying, hatred and harassment. Our fallen nature and free will cause it. You can’t blame God when someone is a bully.

You should learn the difference between God “making” something happen and God “allowing” something to happen. We make evil; God simply allows it.

 

[starsmurf]

I think that saying “well, it’s ok, you could marry a woman” to someone who is gay is like telling someone who is in a wheelchair that they could walk if they really tried. More and more scientific evidence shows that our sexuality is inborn (though not necessarily genetic). For example, the more older brothers (from the same mother) a male child has, the more likely he is to be gay, probably due to hormone levels the developing baby was exposed to in the womb.

I have many gay and lesbian friends, not one of them “chose” to be gay, most of them tried to “make themselves straight”. It didn’t work, and I have known at least one guy who killed himself as a result. Criticising someone struggling with this is sheer cruelty. As another poster said, we are all tempted by different sins, we must not be like the Pharisee and think that because we are not subject to the same temptations as a gay person that we are better than them. We should be like the publican and simply say, “Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner”.

 

[CountrySteve]

well were all born with lust, greed, sloth etc. and all those are sins jsut like homosexuality acts but does God make us lazy or greedily Nope but we are all born with sin though think bout it> God bless

 

[GEddie]

I think that saying “well, it’s ok, you could marry a woman” to someone who is gay is like telling someone who is in a wheelchair that they could walk if they really tried. More and more scientific evidence shows that our sexuality is inborn (though not necessarily genetic). For example, the more older brothers (from the same mother) a male child has, the more likely he is to be gay, probably due to hormone levels the developing baby was exposed to in the womb.

I have many gay and lesbian friends, not one of them “chose” to be gay, most of them tried to “make themselves straight”. It didn’t work, and I have known at least one guy who killed himself as a result. Criticising someone struggling with this is sheer cruelty. As another poster said, we are all tempted by different sins, we must not be like the Pharisee and think that because we are not subject to the same temptations as a gay person that we are better than them. We should be like the publican and simply say, “Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner”.

We have no right to offer anybody our condemnation, whether they be homosexual or a drug addict or a kleptomaniac or…etc.

But neither have we any call to offer them our excuses. Having gay desires does not make the actions ok anymore than having “straight” desires and being “alone in life” makes adultery or fornication ok.

We are called to overcome our nature, whether that nature has a socially “conventional” profile or not.

The Throne of Judgement knows no excuses.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[St_Francis]

It makes me crazy when people say that homosexuals are forced to live without love (actually, sex). There are so many people out there who are also in the same boat. There are so many people who would like to marry but have not found the right person, but, one might say, they have hope.

But there are also many disabled people who have accepted that they will never marry. What, their situation doesn’t count? Why not?

There are a lot of people in this world who do not get what they want. There are lots of couples out there who want children but have none. And many people who suffer even more than homosexuals, women in Africa who hold their children in their arms as they die of starvation; people in the Middle East whose children or spouses go to some normal place like church, school, or the store and are blown up. People whose spouses are badly injured in car accidents who then care for them for decades. The list goes on and on.

 

[St_Francis]

It makes me crazy when people say that homosexuals are forced to live without love (actually, sex). There are so many people out there who are also in the same boat. There are so many people who would like to marry but have not found the right person, but, one might say, they have hope.

But there are also many disabled people who have accepted that they will never marry. What, their situation doesn’t count? Why not?

There are a lot of people in this world who do not get what they want. There are lots of couples out there who want children but have none. And many people who suffer even more than homosexuals, women in Africa who hold their children in their arms as they die of starvation; people in the Middle East whose children or spouses go to some normal place like church, school, or the store and are blown up. People whose spouses are badly injured in car accidents who then care for them for decades. The list goes on and on.

Like I tell my children: we need to thank God for the good we have in our lives instead of bemoaning what we don’t have.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Do you believe God made someone gay? Why would God want to give people the desire to do something, and then say doing it is wrong? Why would God force celibacy on someone, doesn’t that violate free will? Shouldn’t someone be able to choose whether to become a Heterosexual or not? And why would God give someone “a cross” that causes them to be bullied, hated, and harassed?

These are problems with the idea that homosexuality is genetic. Even though I don’t reject the concept completely. And I’m not a homosexual.

The problem runs deeper. You do not ask questions to God, it is God who asks questions to us. He is the boss. We understand little of what’s happening.

There was a horse in the stable hearing the noise of the cutlery of the King, one storey above, in a big feast. And he said to his partner, next box, “what a lovely straw must be eating our King”. Horse logic, irrefutable. Nevertheless, horselike.

It is paiful to understand God’s will and thoughts, mainly when do not coincide with ours. Only the thought that He loves us confort us and tell that if things are that way, it is for our own good. Still, we do not understand. Like the horse.

 

[babylonsfalling]

Do you believe God made someone gay? Why would God want to give people the desire to do something, and then say doing it is wrong? Why would God force celibacy on someone, doesn’t that violate free will? Shouldn’t someone be able to choose whether to become a Heterosexual or not? And why would God give someone “a cross” that causes them to be bullied, hated, and harassed?

These are problems with the idea that homosexuality is genetic. Even though I don’t reject the concept completely. And I’m not a homosexual.

Do you ask any of these questions in reference to other sins, or only in reference to the sin of homosexuality?

All people have a favorite sin, and none of them (including homosexuals) are sinful because God made them that way. Nobody gets to blame God and homosexuals do not get a sin-pass.

 

[exnihilo]

Do you believe God made someone gay? Why would God want to give people the desire to do something, and then say doing it is wrong? Why would God force celibacy on someone, doesn’t that violate free will? Shouldn’t someone be able to choose whether to become a Heterosexual or not?

I dont pretend to understand exactly how we acquire sinful desires. What I do know is we are all sinners with sinful desires. If God makes people gay then he also makes them gluttons, adulterers and any other type of sinner. I would argue against putting it that way, that God makes people like that. But even if you do gays are in no way special or different from anyone else.

People can choose whether to do any sexual act. People can choose to encourage or fight sexual impulses. We dont tell the adulterer it is unfair that he has to deny his urge to have sex with other men’s wives. Morality only exists if we are in fact free to choose whether to sin or not. So if we aren’t making choices we are not being moral. We would just be acting as nature demands we must.

And why would God give someone “a cross” that causes them to be bullied, hated, and harassed?

I think the use of cross like this is inappropriate. Another case would be when people say things like their cancer is a cross to bear. The cross is something you take up willingly. It is a sacrifice. It is doing something that is good. It is something done for others. Abstaining from sin is not a positive action. It is a negative action.

 

[starsmurf]

We have no right to offer anybody our condemnation, whether they be homosexual or a drug addict or a kleptomaniac or…etc.

But neither have we any call to offer them our excuses. Having gay desires does not make the actions ok anymore than having “straight” desires and being “alone in life” makes adultery or fornication ok.

We are called to overcome our nature, whether that nature has a socially “conventional” profile or not.

The Throne of Judgement knows no excuses.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

Saying that someone does not choose to be gay is not making excuses, it is simply relating facts. It is not saying that it is ok to do these things but simply an acknowledgement of the fact that science is showing that our sexuality is innate and not something that we can choose.

The Throne of Judgement may know no excuses but the Mercy of God is boundless and for one moment of repentance will forgive a lifetime of sin. Jesus said that there is more rejoicing in Heaven over one repentant sinner than over 99 who did not sin.

All of us, especially me , need to focus on the logs/planks in our eyes before telling others that the speck in theirs must be removed.

God Bless

 

[Brendan]

Saying that someone does not choose to be gay is not making excuses, it is simply relating facts.

Correct, but when someone engages in a sinful act, that IS a choice. No one commits adultery accidentaly; the same is true for homosexual acts.

The Church does not condemn the condition, but the act, and those are always choices.

All of us, especially me , need to focus on the logs/planks in our eyes before telling others that the speck in theirs must be removed.

God Bless

We all need to help each other to do what Christ, through His Church tells us to do. One does not need to be sinless to help an alcholic see the need for sobriety, nor help a homosexual remain celibate.

I’ll direct you to Ez 33:7-9

If I tell the wicked, "O wicked one, you shall surely die, "
and you do not speak out to dissuade the wicked from his way,
the wicked shall die for his guilt,
but I will hold you responsible for his death.
But if you warn the wicked,
trying to turn him from his way,
and he refuses to turn from his way,
he shall die for his guilt,
but you shall save yourself.

God has placed a requirement on us to speak against all Mortal Sin, our own Salvation depends on it!!

 

[exnihilo]

Saying that someone does not choose to be gay is not making excuses, it is simply relating facts. It is not saying that it is ok to do these things but simply an acknowledgement of the fact that science is showing that our sexuality is innate and not something that we can choose.

It is a fundamental and absolute principle of Christianity that we are free to choose to sin. If we are not choosing how to act then Christianity is meaningless.

The issue of choosing how we think is a bit trickier. We know we have impulses. We also have some control over what sort of mental activity occurs when we have impulses. We can entertain those impulses which makes them grow or do things to make them go away. Again, Christianity relies on the ability of the person to control their thoughts. Christ is clear that you can sin in your heart. So if the homosexual cant help his feelings then Christianity is made to be rather terrible in condemning man for feelings he cant control.

If your position is science has shown we cant choose how we act or our desires then you must accept that science is showing Christianity to be either meaningless or terribly unjust.

But I dont think science has really shown this. The nature versus nurture problem is very old. For many nature arguments there are plenty of nurture explanations. And if this is a matter of science than it is in a most subjective area. It is one thing to talk about the science of chemistry but entirely different when the science is measuring what people claim to perceive. When science isn’t ‘proving’ homosexuals are caused by nature it is ‘proving’ things like peoples religious experiences are tricks the brain is playing on them. They are misconceptions. Of course I dont believe science has nothing to contribute I just believe many people have agendas to explain away sin and that quite frankly most of the people performing these experiments are probably not all that smart or honest.

To my knoweldge science has not yet claimed to be able to predict if someone will be a homosexual. Until that day it has really proved nothing. Even if correlations are found until there is an explanation and predictability science has proven nothing.

All of us, especially me , need to focus on the logs/planks in our eyes before telling others that the speck in theirs must be removed.

I agree very much. Not that you need that focus but that I do. At the same time we cant turn a blind eye to sin. We are supposed to condemn sin and help people overcome it. It seems to me we’ve gone too far from proper condemnation to improper acceptance.

 

[dailey]

Correct, but when someone engages in a sinful act, that IS a choice. No one commits adultery accidentaly; the same is true for homosexual acts.

The Church does not condemn the condition, but the act, and those are always choices.

We all need to help each other to do what Christ, through His Church tells us to do. One does not need to be sinless to help an alcholic see the need for sobriety, nor help a homosexual remain celibate.

I’ll direct you to Ez 33:7-9

God has placed a requirement on us to speak against all Mortal Sin, our own Salvation depends on it!!

I am glad you posted this. So many times you hear (even here on CAF) that if you call someone out on their sins, then you are “judging them”. I personally feel its an excuse that is wayyyy overused. I must admit though, it is hard determining on when and where you should speak up…and how much.

 

[PeterGStanley]

God certainly does put people to the test - there are many examples of it in the bible - God does intervene against free will to test the faith of people - who can discern God ? Who knows why people are gay - maybe its a test for us in our tolerance - its certainly no reason to hate them nor is it contagious.

 

[RosaryFan]

I think that saying “well, it’s ok, you could marry a woman” to someone who is gay is like telling someone who is in a wheelchair that they could walk if they really tried.

No, a little different. Someone in a wheel chair cannot walk. Period. The point I was trying to make is that homosexuals cry “discrimination” in an effort to get society to agree that they should have a “right” to get married. It is not discrimination because they are free to marry and have every right that heterosexuals have. They just don’t want that particular right. They want a new right. A right that heterosexuals don’t have. They have the right that heterosexuals have. The right to marry someone of the opposite sex - not of the same sex - not an animal - not an inanimate object - not a relative… Someone of the opposite sex. That is the right and everyone has it.