For those who claim to know God

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hamba2han

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Can you kindly inform who are the “ten thousands of saints” who came (or are coming?) with the Lord as prophesied in the following verses of the Bible:

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." … (Jude 1:14-15)

Such is their importance and significance in the eyes of God, I would say that if you do not know who these ten thousand saints/holy ones are, then this would certainly imply that you also would really not know who the Lord is.
 
They are angels.

“But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,” Hebrews 12:22

“Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.” Revelation 5:11
 
Since the quotation says “ten thousands” rather than specifically “ten thousand,” I would assume that the original word was “myriads” and could easily have meant “a great many” rather than specifically 10,000 souls.

Catholics and Orthodox have recognized probably thousands of notable saints who will undoubtedly be among those returning with Christ, but we don’t claim to know the names of everyone in Heaven. Many get there by quieter paths, unnoticed except by those whose lives they touch.

In general, Christians would identify these saints merely as the great multitude of the saved, of which only God knows each and every name. While we do study the lives of prominent saints for their examples and the ways in which they lead us to God and Christ, we do not feel that we are unable to know Christ without identifying each and every one of His faithful ones. We will get to know them soon enough, if and when we join their number.

You seem to be a Muslim. Does Islam teach of a specific set of 10,000 saints who would be the ones portrayed in this passage?

Usagi
 
inJESUS said:
They are angels.

“But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,” Hebrews 12:22

“Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders.” Revelation 5:11
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Read the verse again please:

"Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints… "

Since when did the Bible confuse saints with angels??
 
**
"Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints… "**

The Greek word is agioi–which can mean “holy ones” as well as “saints” (though the basic meaning for both terms is identical).
 
Usagi said:
Since the quotation says “ten thousands” rather than specifically “ten thousand,” I would assume that the original word was “myriads” and could easily have meant “a great many” rather than specifically 10,000 souls.

Catholics and Orthodox have recognized probably thousands of notable saints who will undoubtedly be among those returning with Christ, but we don’t claim to know the names of everyone in Heaven. Many get there by quieter paths, unnoticed except by those whose lives they touch.

In general, Christians would identify these saints merely as the great multitude of the saved, of which only God knows each and every name. While we do study the lives of prominent saints for their examples and the ways in which they lead us to God and Christ, we do not feel that we are unable to know Christ without identifying each and every one of His faithful ones. We will get to know them soon enough, if and when we join their number.

You seem to be a Muslim. Does Islam teach of a specific set of 10,000 saints who would be the ones portrayed in this passage?

Usagi
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Muslims in general would have no problem at all accepting that these "ten thousands of saints" as prophesied in Jude 1:14-15 are exactly the same saints/holy ones who are also prophesied in Deuteronomy 33:1-2 below:

"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them." … Deuteronomy 33:1-2

And Muslims do indeed have a pretty good idea who these “ten thousands of saints/holy ones” are because they came “from mount Paran”.
 
hamba2han said:
"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them." … Deuteronomy 33:1-2
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the Septuagint translates Deuteronomy 33:2:

“And he said, The Lord is come from Sina, and has appeared from Seir to us, and has hasted out the mount of Pharan, with the ten THOUSANDS (muriasi) of Cades; on his right hand were ANGELS WITH HIM.”

and the NT explains it well enough so we know they are angels, not Muhammad’s followers, long time before Muhammad was born as a pagan.
 
“Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Ibn Ishaq- 'Abdallah b. Abi Bakr: The Messenger marched with 2,000 Meccans and 10,000 of his companions [who had marched with him and] with whose help God had facilitated the conquest of Mecca. Thus there were 12,000 in all …” (The History of Al-Tabari: The Last Years of the Prophet)

so neither the Bible confirms your theory, nor your own sources not to mention that the idea behind all the OT passages yu are citing conflicts with the Quran considering the Jews as ennemies.
 
inJESUS said:
the confusion is not in the Bible.
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On this point, I agree 100% because the confusion is with those who are reading and interpreting the Bible in a way which would best fit their beliefs.

However, when one looks at it objectively and with no biased sentiments attached, then ‘saints/holy ones’ are definitely NOT ‘angels’ by any stretch of the imagination.
 
hamba2han said:
On this point, I agree 100% because the confusion is with those who are reading and interpreting the Bible in a way which would best fit their beliefs.

However, when one looks at it objectively and with no biased sentiments attached, then ‘saints/holy ones’ are definitely NOT ‘angels’ by any stretch of the imagination.
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objectively and without sentiments attached to it, and thousands of years **before **Muhammad, it is angels…besides, am sorry for you since your own sources do not help you.
 
hamba2han said:
Can you kindly inform who are the "ten thousands of saints" who came (or are coming?) with the Lord as prophesied in the following verses of the Bible:

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." … (Jude 1:14-15)

Such is their importance and significance in the eyes of God, I would say that if you do not know who these ten thousand saints/holy ones are, then this would certainly imply that you also would really not know who the Lord is.
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Jude references the Book of Enoch, which is not regarded as canonical by any church outside of the Ethiopic Orthodox.
 
Hajnalcsillag said:
Jude references the Book of Enoch, which is not regarded as canonical by any church outside of the Ethiopic Orthodox.
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Jude is a part of the New Testament just as much as Deuteronomy is a part of the Old Testament.

Therefore, I would think that Christians who say that they believe in the Bible really would have no choice in the matter but to believe in the truth of this prophecy about the “ten thousands saints/holy ones” because it is found in BOTH the Old and New Testaments.
 
Okay, hamba2han, who do you say these ten thousands of saints are?

Usagi
 
Usagi said:
Okay, hamba2han, who do you say these ten thousands of saints are?

Usagi
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"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them." … Deuteronomy 33:1-2

If you look closely at the wording of this verse, you will see that it bears the chronological succession of the prophets of God, like the rising sun.
Came: the first appearance of daylight in the morning; dawn.
Rose up: the arrival of the sun in the morning.
Shined forth: Mid-day sun which lights up the Earth from East to West. Islam has indeed come to shine all over the earth as the mid-day sun.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/img/map.gif

For a more complete explanation of this prophecy and subsequently the answer to your question on who these “ten thousands of saints” were, kindly go to this webpage
 
hamba2han said:
Can you kindly inform who are the "ten thousands of saints" who came (or are coming?) with the Lord as prophesied in the following verses of the Bible:

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." … (Jude 1:14-15)
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It seems to be referring to the angels that will accompany the Lord’s return for judgment.
 
TomaszA said:
It seems to be referring to the angels that will accompany the Lord’s return for judgment.
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It is extremely unlikely that the Bible will use the word ‘saints’ or ‘holy ones’ to refer to ‘angels’.

On the other hand, when you examine this verse, it is so clear that there is NOTHING within it that would contradict the idea that it refers to the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
 
Remember that it is Christians like yourself who are putting forward the idea that “ten thousands angels” will descend from Mount Paran on Judgment Day, not the Muslims.

Why are these “angels” choosing Mount Paran to descend from on that Day??.. Is it not far more logical for them to descend on Jerusalem instead?
 
hamba2han said:
"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them." … Deuteronomy 33:1-2

If you look closely at the wording of this verse, you will see that it bears the chronological succession of the prophets of God, like the rising sun.
Came: the first appearance of daylight in the morning; dawn.
Rose up: the arrival of the sun in the morning.
Shined forth: Mid-day sun which lights up the Earth from East to West. Islam has indeed come to shine all over the earth as the mid-day sun.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/img/map.gif

For a more complete explanation of this prophecy and subsequently the answer to your question on who these “ten thousands of saints” were, kindly go to this webpage
Click to expand...
Your like a used car salesman, always pushing the same old tired ‘model’, but noone is silly enough to buy it.
Your flawed and repeatedly debunked theories have been done to death, havent you got anything new?
 
hamba2han said:
Can you kindly inform who are the "ten thousands of saints" who came (or are coming?) with the Lord as prophesied in the following verses of the Bible:

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." … (Jude 1:14-15)

Such is their importance and significance in the eyes of God, I would say that if you do not know who these ten thousand saints/holy ones are, then this would certainly imply that you also would really not know who the Lord is.
Click to expand...
Very good. Now I ask you, do you know who were the 240,000 prophets before Mohammad?:D:D
 
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