Forced adoptions in Britain done by Catholic church

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I really need some clarification on this issue because it very much bothers me and is making me doubt my faith in the church
 
If it hadn’t really happened, then why would the Archbishop be apologizing for it?

Yes, from all evidence and accounts, it happened.
 
I really need some clarification on this issue because it very much bothers me and is making me doubt my faith in the church
not everyone in the church made the right decisions.

in Canada many indigenous kids were taken away from their families in to boarding schools where a good amount were abused by clergy and religious.

not all, but still a horrid situation.

it doesn’t mean that the church gave approval for this. there are many centuries that these sorts of things didn’t happen. many religious orders established homes for unwed mothers in the past. some saints had illegitimate children and they weren’t taken away, some illegitimate children became saints and no mention of them being separated from their parent either. not all black and white
 
In all of these situations we have to remember that even the Pope is a sinner. Priests, Deacons, Nuns, Laity are all sinners. Some more so than others no doubt. However, God is still with us and with the Catholic Church. That is why it has survived for 2,000 years and will until the end of time.

We also need to remember that when we look at historical events, we are looking back with current thinking on these things and not the thinking of those who lived at that time. That is not to excuse things that happened but only to clarify. Most of the people involved probably did believe that they were doing the best thing for both mother and baby. We looking back see how bad those decisions were. There was very much a stigma to being an unmarried mother. Women didn’t just keep their babies as they do now. The time was different. The thinking was different.

With all that in mind, it should not cause you to doubt your faith but rather make you even more certain. It is God who is holding it all together and He is the only reason we are Catholic. He made it the One True Church. He is able to keep it going in spite of we sinful humans who are it’s members.
 
You also have to take into account the prevailing social norms of the times. Up till about the 1970s it was not socially acceptable to be an unwed mother, not just among Catholics but in Western society generally. Society also frowned on mothers who worked outside the home rather than staying home with their children, and there were not many job options available for a woman with a baby, especially if she did not have a supportive family willing to provide child care while she worked (and in many cases of an unwed pregnancy, the family was ashamed and not only didn’t want to help, they wanted the whole scandal to just go away). Social welfare authorities generally also thought that the baby would be better off adopted into a family that could provide baby with a father and a full-time stay-at-home mother.

I know of two cases of older people in my own family where a daughter in the family got pregnant and it was hushed up and the parents of the daughter arranged to keep and raise the baby as their own. The children didn’t find out for years that their “sister” was actually their “mom”.

So this whole idea of taking babies from unwed mothers and putting them up for adoption was not an idea unique to the Church. Nowadays it seems shocking because the prevailing thought is that a child should stay with its biological parent if at all possible, but back then the prevailing thought was the opposite.
 
Do not look left and right, seeing only human failure. Look upwards to the God Who is perfect. Study Him and the truth which He revealed through His Church which is composed of sinners.
 
You also have to take into account the prevailing social norms of the times. Up till about the 1970s it was not socially acceptable to be an unwed mother, not just among Catholics but in Western society generally. Society also frowned on mothers who worked outside the home rather than staying home with their children, and there were not many job options available for a woman with a baby, especially if she did not have a supportive family willing to provide child care while she worked (and in many cases of an unwed pregnancy, the family was ashamed and not only didn’t want to help, they wanted the whole scandal to just go away). Social welfare authorities generally also thought that the baby would be better off adopted into a family that could provide baby with a father and a full-time stay-at-home mother.

I know of two cases of older people in my own family where a daughter in the family got pregnant and it was hushed up and the parents of the daughter arranged to keep and raise the baby as their own. The children didn’t find out for years that their “sister” was actually their “mom”.

So this whole idea of taking babies from unwed mothers and putting them up for adoption was not an idea unique to the Church. Nowadays it seems shocking because the prevailing thought is that a child should stay with its biological parent if at all possible, but back then the prevailing thought was the opposite.
only in 1900 united states was this ever a culture. if you look back at other parts of the world and other history. this whole full-time stay at home mom thing is really quite modern.

work was also very different. people didn’t go to the office, didn’t commute, they had home-run business or shops in the town square that both men and women helped out with.

st. Margaret of Cortona, had a child with a man she wasn’t married to. When her boyfriend died, she went for help with the local friars. they didn’t force her to give up the child. this was in the 1300s

st. martin of Porres was an illegitimate child of a wealthy man and one of his servants. He wasn’t taken away either. this was in the 1500s.

things are not always the same across time periods.

yes, at some point, many people did this, but I think it’s also fdifferent if the child is at least kept as part of the family as opposed to given to complete strangers. and I think that it was heavily stigmatized at a certain point because they thought it would deter people from doing it. the problem is that it’s the child who ends up suffering in those cases
 
Wasn’t there an episode of Father Brown that addressed this issue? He was of the belief that the children were better off with their mothers.

My organization has proposed adaptations of the Magdalen and Good Shepherd rules. We have one who is living the “Mercy Magdalen” lifestyle as a celibate laywoman.

Just because someone screwed up royally in history doesn’t mean the concept has to be canned entirely. We all learn from our mistakes. If people want perfection, they can go to Jesus and Mary.
 
only in 1900 united states was this ever a culture. if you look back at other parts of the world and other history. this whole full-time stay at home mom thing is really quite modern.

work was also very different. people didn’t go to the office, didn’t commute, they had home-run business or shops in the town square that both men and women helped out with.

st. Margaret of Cortona, had a child with a man she wasn’t married to. When her boyfriend died, she went for help with the local friars. they didn’t force her to give up the child. this was in the 1300s

st. martin of Porres was an illegitimate child of a wealthy man and one of his servants. He wasn’t taken away either. this was in the 1500s.

things are not always the same across time periods.

yes, at some point, many people did this, but I think it’s also fdifferent if the child is at least kept as part of the family as opposed to given to complete strangers. and I think that it was heavily stigmatized at a certain point because they thought it would deter people from doing it. the problem is that it’s the child who ends up suffering in those cases
US culture in this case is important because it’s my understanding that in many cases these babies from UK were sent to Catholic families in the United States. Obviously there was some sort of discussion or arrangement between the US and the UK churches on this.

I am also not saying that this is the way it has been throughout every era of history including before there was any sort of public welfare system. The issue with unmarried mothers came about largely because of social welfare concerns, which really didn’t come into play until the late 1800s in the US and UK. I have studied comparative US and UK welfare systems. I won’t claim to know much about how it works in other European countries, but we aren’t dealing with those here.

Finally, I am not saying that taking a child from its parents is the way it “should” be, but factually, many of the people doing this during the decades in question thought, however wrongly, they were acting in the best interests of the child. It is true a few people were probably in it to make money as there were usually fees paid in connection with the adoptions.

There is an old B&W movie from UK dating back to I believe the 1940s or early 1950s that goes through this whole scenario of an unwed mother (for the movie, they made her married, but her husband turned out to be a bigamist and she only found out after she was pregnant) trying to keep her baby, showing how it doesn’t work out, and then showing how the baby has a very happy life as an adopted child of a couple that has more money than the mother, and is miserable when his mother, who has since married, tries to get him back. Unfortunately I can’t remember the title, but it’s basically a giant advertisement for giving your baby up for adoption. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church - I don’t think religion is mentioned in the film, it’s all social welfare. People would be horrified at it today, as society’s and social welfare’s ideas have changed so much.
 
Hi everyone,

Is it true that agencies affiliated with the Catholic Church took babies from their mothers and put them up for adoption back in Britain during the fifties and sixties?
google.ca/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3899590/amp/Archbishop-apologises-forced-adoptions-scandal-Head-Catholic-Church-Britain-says-process-lacked-care-sensitivity.html
Oh quelle surprise,my mother as a seventeen year old.My adoptive father confirmed money did change hands,he would never have tolerated any calumny against his precious church.
 
I find the article a little contradictory. They say repeatedly they were ‘pressured,’ which is not the same as forced. In fact, someone saying to a 16 year old girl, “It would be better for you and the baby both to consider adoption,” might be called ‘pressure’ by some.

One of the women says she was young and ‘felt’ she had no choice. Again, that’s not the same as being ‘forced.’ In fact, many young women today say the exact same thing of abortion: they ‘feel they have no choice.’ But nobody is complaining that women are being ‘forced’ into abortions.

The article says a few times that they were not told of the financial help available to them, but it doesn’t say what the social system was at the time. Were there checks being cut to unwed mothers? Without that information, I’m hesitant to believe they were actually lied to.

Also…I’m curious why we spend so much time talking about the ‘evils’ of the Catholic Church of 50 years ago but we’re never supposed to mention actual bombings, church burnings, beheadings, torture, rape, and murders going on today, right now, pretty much daily around the world, of another faith.
 
Hi everyone,

Is it true that agencies affiliated with the Catholic Church took babies from their mothers and put them up for adoption back in Britain during the fifties and sixties?
google.ca/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3899590/amp/Archbishop-apologises-forced-adoptions-scandal-Head-Catholic-Church-Britain-says-process-lacked-care-sensitivity.html
It is easy to sit back in our comfortable chair and condemn the past, but those days were radically different to our own, the state was less willing to bail us out of our own mistakes, and the general populous were also less eager to endorse our own mistakes. The Catholic Church was simply working within the norms of the then society, a society we so quickly forget, and judge them on our own societies solutions to our own mistakes.
 
I will also put it another way. It would simply be easier for the Catholic Church to ignore the plight of society, and therefore be beyond historical reproach, but the day that happens we have failed to be a light in a dark place.
 
I find the article a little contradictory. They say repeatedly they were ‘pressured,’ which is not the same as forced. In fact, someone saying to a 16 year old girl, “It would be better for you and the baby both to consider adoption,” might be called ‘pressure’ by some.

One of the women says she was young and ‘felt’ she had no choice. Again, that’s not the same as being ‘forced.’ In fact, many young women today say the exact same thing of abortion: they ‘feel they have no choice.’ But nobody is complaining that women are being ‘forced’ into abortions.

The article says a few times that they were not told of the financial help available to them, but it doesn’t say what the social system was at the time. Were there checks being cut to unwed mothers? Without that information, I’m hesitant to believe they were actually lied to.

Also…I’m curious why we spend so much time talking about the ‘evils’ of the Catholic Church of 50 years ago but we’re never supposed to mention actual bombings, church burnings, beheadings, torture, rape, and murders going on today, right now, pretty much daily around the world, of another faith.
I’ve never lived in England but if this article is correct then there was financial help available for an unwed mother who wished to keep her child, whether or not checks were actually cut. Surely the Church personnel involved must have known, so any way you look at it it does seem like they lied to the unwed mothers. This amounts to church agency personnel committing a mortal sin. For what? For money? To circumvent the embarrassment of Protestants seeing unwed Catholic women with babies? Who knows? Either way, the bishop’s apology is long overdue.

As for the women feeling ‘forced’, given the stigma against unwed motherhood still current in those days, I can easily see how a young woman in that predicament could feel she was being forced to choose the option that would most please those closest to her, even if she feared she would regret it for the rest of her life. And yes, I have heard of girls young enough and scared enough that they felt ‘forced’ into getting an abortion.

I’ll agree with you that as badly as members of the Catholic Church have messed up, some members of the other faith have done much worse. But until those concerns become more pressing and immediate I don’t think it will be a popular topic of conversation.
 
As for the women feeling ‘forced’, given the stigma against unwed motherhood still current in those days, I can easily see how a young woman in that predicament could feel she was being forced to choose the option that would most please those closest to her, even if she feared she would regret it for the rest of her life.
From reading a number of other articles on these cases, while the Church is not blameless, it’s pretty clear that many of these girls were getting pressure from their families also. I just read one article in the Guardian where a woman noted that her mother had insisted the entire pregnancy be hidden from her father because otherwise the shame could kill him. I presume he may have had some health issue like heart disease that would have caused them to worry about a shock from scandal. Obviously this girl couldn’t just show up at home with a baby, and the baby’s father apparently did not want to marry her. In a situation like that, there’s pressure coming from sources other than just the Church.
 
I’ve never lived in England but if this article is correct then there was financial help available for an unwed mother who wished to keep her child, whether or not checks were actually cut. Surely the Church personnel involved must have known, so any way you look at it it does seem like they lied to the unwed mothers. This amounts to church agency personnel committing a mortal sin. For what? For money? To circumvent the embarrassment of Protestants seeing unwed Catholic women with babies? Who knows? Either way, the bishop’s apology is long overdue.
There are a whole host of assumptions underlying this comment.

The article already falls on the side of slanting and bias by saying that ‘felt pressured’ by society, by families, by church, is somehow equivalent to ‘being *forced *by the Catholic church.’ As a result of this obvious bias, I require actual hard evidence of what financial help was available from the government for unwed mothers in the 1950s. I’ve never heard of such governmental help at that time. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t there, but between my personal knowledge and the slant of the article, I need to see that before I condemn an entire faith or group of bishops or priests.

There is the assumption that priests deliberately lied. Remember, we’re talking about the 50s and 60s. Today, everybody is being given ‘training’ on every topic under the sun. That wasn’t so in those days. A priest was an expert on theology, *not *on what social services were available to every segment of the population.

There is a further assumption that these (supposed) lies were for the sake of money. As others have pointed out, any ‘pressure’ to give the child up for adoption may have had everything to do with believing it was better for mother and child both, and absolutely nothing to do with money.
As for the women feeling ‘forced’, given the stigma against unwed motherhood still current in those days, I can easily see how a young woman in that predicament could feel she was being forced to choose the option that would most please those closest to her, even if she feared she would regret it for the rest of her life. And yes, I have heard of girls young enough and scared enough that they felt ‘forced’ into getting an abortion.
Looking around at the societal cost of millions of single mothers today…I think there was probably very good reason for ‘stigma.’ Single motherhood is usually hard on both the mother and child and results not only in their own personal financial poverty (often) and hardship, but in all that results from children being raised without fathers in the home.

Our personal pleasure or regret is not the sole basis for decisions, as our choices impact all of society.
I’ll agree with you that as badly as members of the Catholic Church have messed up, some members of the other faith have done much worse. But until those concerns become more pressing and immediate I don’t think it will be a popular topic of conversation.
Terror attacks are a near daily occurrence around the world. Sweden has no-go zones. More and more women in Germany and Sweden are speaking up about the sexual assault, harassment and rape by Muslims. Churches are being burned and Christians tortured, beheaded, imprisoned and driven from their homes.

You’re right, those concerns are not pressing or immediate. Much more important to talk about whether the Catholic Church in all its evilness, suggested to unwed teenage girls that their babies might be better off in stable, two parent homes. That’s really more awful, pressing, and immediate than, say, people being blown up and killed at an office Christmas party a few months ago.
 
Hi everyone,

Is it true that agencies affiliated with the Catholic Church took babies from their mothers and put them up for adoption back in Britain during the fifties and sixties?
google.ca/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3899590/amp/Archbishop-apologises-forced-adoptions-scandal-Head-Catholic-Church-Britain-says-process-lacked-care-sensitivity.html
Yes OP true and shameful

Same here in Ireland.

google “bessborough” and read some of the women’s witnesses.

we face an inquiry now into baby trafficking at Bessborough and other mother and baby homes
 
I really need some clarification on this issue because it very much bothers me and is making me doubt my faith in the church
What part do you find troubling, was it that the church tried to find good homes for children?

There was no govt safety net to fund single mothers back then
 
What part do you find troubling, was it that the church tried to find good homes for children?

There was no govt safety net to fund single mothers back then
Er what?

The Church tore babies from mothers and sold them.

google “Bessborough” and read some of the facts of this. Some of the suffering caused.

In England they tended to send them to eg Australia. In Ireland it was to America. The babies to be sold were carefully chosen, from the higher class families, were well fed and cared for … good genetics.
The Church “could” easily have helped in many other ways.

It was a moral judgement on the “fallen women” .

most of the remaining babies were raised in orphanages, those who did nto perish in infancy
 
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