Forgiveness for non-Catholics possible?

[ALLFORHIM]

and I meant that the Sacrament of Reconciliation teaches us a lot about humility

I wanted you to say Yes you have that too!

Yes I do have that too.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I think Protestants who are genuinely contrite are forgiven by God.

Hi,
By this statement you are implying that you dont believe God when He says He forgives sins. You are then implying that you trust a man more then God

Mark 2
2:1
A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home.
2:2
So many gathered that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them.
2:3
Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them.
2:4
Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on.
2:5
**When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” **
2:6
Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves,
2:7
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
2:8
Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things?
2:9
Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?
2:10
But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…” He said to the paralytic,
2:11
“I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”
Acts 2:38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 3:19Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 10:43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

Acts 13:38-3913:38
"Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you.
13:39
Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

1 John 1:8-10

1 John 1 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1:10
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

I dont know about you but I dont see anywhere that man has anything to do with granting forgiveness from God.

Not even slightly do I NOT believe God. I simply believe what the Bible says. "And He breathed on them and said,“Recieve the Holy Spirit. Whosoever’s sins you forgive will be forgiven them and whosoever’s sins you shall retain shall be retained against them.”

 

[water]

Hi,
By this statement you are implying that you dont believe God when He says He forgives sins. You are then implying that you trust a man more then God

Didn’t Jesus give the apostles to forgive/ not forgive sins?
Isn’t it because you find it difficult to tell a man your sins because God gives Him the authority through which God forgives us?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Didn’t Jesus give the apostles to forgive/ not forgive sins?
Isn’t it because you find it difficult to tell a man your sins because God gives Him the authority through which God forgives us?

Hi,
I think the quotes are all mixed up. Yes I do believe that Christ gave the Apostles that gift which died with them. Yes it is difficult to tell man my sins. Not all of course. When I sin against someone I have to go and confess to them and ask for forgiveness. When I sin against God I need to go to Him and Him alone to ask for forgiveness. He promises to do so. I have already given several Scripture references that proves this.

 

[McKevin]

When I read the verses you posted I see that Jesus forgave sins while He walked the earth

However, here’s what He said after He ascended into Heaven. All Christians used to understand this…

John Chapter 20:

21
(Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Since then our forgiveness from Christ has come from those to whom He gave the power to forgive sins. (Priests)

<>
McKevin

Hi ,
I believe that that ability died with the death of the last Apostle. IMHO the Apostle made disciples out of many people and so on and so on right down till today. God is clear in Scripture about this. In Acts and 1 John that I gave you was after Jesus had ascended.

I’m guesing that we’ll disagree on this until “the cows come in”…but by the grace of God we’ll live on earth in peace and eternally together in heaven!

catholic.com/library/Forgiveness_of_Sins.asp this link has this to say…

The Commission

Christ told the apostles to follow his example: “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you” (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christ’s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: “Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:18).

This power was understood as coming from God: “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation” (2 Cor. 5:18). Indeed, confirms Paul, “So we are ambassadors for Christ” (2 Cor. 5:20).

Some say that any power given to the apostles died with them. Not so. Some powers must have, such as the ability to write Scripture. But the powers necessary to maintain the Church as a living, spiritual society had to be passed down from generation to generation. If they ceased, the Church would cease, except as a quaint abstraction. Christ ordered the apostles to, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations.” It would take much time. And he promised them assistance: “Lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age” (Matt. 28:19–20).

If the disciples believed that Christ instituted the power to sacramentally forgive sins in his stead, we would expect the apostles’ successors—the bishops—and Christians of later years to act as though such power was legitimately and habitually exercised. If, on the other hand, the sacramental forgiveness of sins was what Fundamentalists term it, an “invention,” and if it was something foisted upon the young Church by ecclesiastical or political leaders, we’d expect to find records of protest. In fact, in early Christian writings we find no sign of protests concerning sacramental forgiveness of sins. Quite the contrary. We find confessing to a priest was accepted as part of the original deposit of faith handed down from the apostles. "

<>
McKevin

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I’m guesing that we’ll disagree on this until “the cows come in”…but by the grace of God we’ll live on earth in peace and eternally together in heaven!

Hi, Yeah probably

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Didn’t Jesus give the apostles to forgive/ not forgive sins?
Isn’t it because you find it difficult to tell a man your sins because God gives Him the authority through which God forgives us?

I didn’t post this.

 

[The_Catholic]

I think it all has to do with your heart. When one confesses to a priest he has to be sincere about his confession. I imagine a non-catholic feels the same when they repent and confess to God privatly. I know I used to. Then they are forgiven as they are a member of the Church, seperated brothers. It’s like baptism of desire.

But speaking to a priest has many blessings. You’re talking to someone of the faith about God and your sins, he gives you good spiritual advice and the blessing help you stay away from sin alot easier. At least in my experiance they do.

But if a catholic confesses untruly, or “is just doing it to do it” then I would not want to be in his/her position.

 

[water]

It is hard for a man to go to Heaven!
Too much pride.

 

[trogiah]

Dear all,

In light of John 20:23, can someone please tell me if mortal sins can be forgiven directly by God without the need for sacramental confession and absolution? Is it enough for a dying person to repent of his/her sins and be forgiven?

John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Looking forward to hearing some responses please!

God bless,
Noel.

The scriptures that seem clearest to me on the matter of what it takes to be forgiven are those where Jesus states clearly that those who practice forgiveness are those who will be forgiven.

In the Beatitudes

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy”

In the Our Father

“Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us”

Immediately after the Our Father

“If you forgive others, your heavenly father will forgive you, if you do not forgive others, your heavenly father will not forgive you.”

In the parable of the unforgiving servant

(to long to type out here)

In the Sermon on the Mount

“Do not judge and you will not be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned.”

Regarding the quote from John 20.

The leaders of a faith community have substantial power to put burdens on the members of a community in terms of their worship life, or to lift those burdens. The Pharisees had that power prompting Jesus to say once “you place heavy burdens on people and do nothing to help them,” This power is great at times but is never the power to grant eternal damnation or reward. It is this power that Jesus was assigning to the Apostles for his Church on Earth.

That is how I see it.

Jim

 

[ALLFORHIM]

It is hard for a man to go to Heaven!
Too much pride.

I agree that is why the bible says to humble ourselves. Read proverbs some time. It is filled with verses about pride and how bad it is

 

[4given]

Hi,
WOW, REALLY!! I have no confidence in myself when it comes to getting my point across. Thank you for the compliment. I have read your posts and agree with you BTW.

Actually we may be alike that way. I don’t always have much confidence in getting what I’m trying to say accross either. That’s why I sometimes share links to sites that explain things better than me.

 

[4given]

By the Great High Priest, who also left authority to His Apostles to forgive sins (see the OP’s original citation of scripture).

I think Protestants who are genuinely contrite are forgiven by God. But God alone knows IF and HOW. It’s a grey area that He MAY forgive, it’s a certainty that in the priestly office, He DOES forgive (again, the above citation). Why risk it?

I think that’s something we’ll have to disagree on. I see no biblical reason or need to go confess my sins to a Catholic priest (or join the CC) nor do I believe he has any authority to forgive sins since he isn’t god nor can he read peoples’ hearts and minds. I’m not risking anything in my opinion. I’m one of Christ’s sheep and I seek forgiveness directly from God through Christ and I believe the Bible that God is faithful and just to forgive.

Here is a different perspective on forgivenss of sins other than the Catholic view (if that’s allowed to help explain where I’m coming from):

justforcatholics.org/forgiveness.htm

 

[DesertBrother]

I think that’s something we’ll have to disagree on. I see no biblical reason or need to go confess my sins to a Catholic priest (or join the CC) nor do I believe he has any authority to forgive sins since he isn’t god nor can he read peoples’ hearts and minds. I’m not risking anything in my opinion. I’m one of Christ’s sheep and I seek forgiveness directly from God through Christ and I believe the Bible that God is faithful and just to forgive.

Here is a different perspective on forgivenss of sins other than the Catholic view (if that’s allowed to help explain where I’m coming from):

justforcatholics.org/forgiveness.htm

Your intentions can be from the heart, which is what matters most to God. Love is truly the most important thing. But He also desires us all to have the fullest experience of communion with Him by becoming part of the one and only Church that was from the beginning. You may see no reason to look any further into the CC because you trust in your own interpretation of Scripture, or the interpretation of those who chose to reinvent Christianity 500 years ago.

We Catholics don’t claim to know anything for ourselves, but only what’s been handed down to us from the beginning. Protestants seem to believe in whatever they think “sounds” like the right interpretation of God’s truth. It’s a personal judgement of what they think truth is, even if it may not agree with what other Protestants consider to be true. This is why someone asked, “why take the risk?” Meaning, why take the risk of trusting your own idea of truth.

Peace.

 

[4given]

Thanks for the concern but I don’t believe I’m trusting just my own idea of the truth. I’m trusting what the Bible says, even though you believe I’m unable to understand it without your church telling me what it says. I don’t expect you’ll understand. I don’t share your beliefs about the CC and that’s all I’d better say about that. In the end, we each make our own decision whom or what to believe or whether or not to let someone else tell us what we should believe. So, one day we’ll know for sure won’t we?

 

[nkelly]

Dear all,

this thread really hasn’t gone as I’d hoped.

Please let me clarify further. I’m trying to establish the Catholic Church’s position on forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians. I’m clear on the protestant position.

I have no doubt that priests have the God-given power to forgive sins.

So the question is, what does the CC teach regarding forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians who ask God directly instead of going to a priest?

Is this another grey area like evolution v creation?
Is it the case that absolution by a priest guarantees forgiveness while confession to God is less certain and depends on God’s mercy?

God bless and thanks for all the replies!
Noel.

 

[DesertBrother]

Thanks for the concern but I don’t believe I’m trusting just my own idea of the truth. I’m trusting what the Bible says, even though you believe I’m unable to understand it without your church telling me what it says. I don’t expect you’ll understand. I don’t share your beliefs about the CC and that’s all I’d better say about that. In the end, we each make our own decision whom or what to believe or whether or not to let someone else tell us what we should believe. So, one day we’ll know for sure won’t we?

Although I don’t share your beliefs either, I do have many loved ones that are Protestant and we strive to stay united as much as possibe against the anti-Christ spirit of the world. I respect your love for the Bible, and that you seek the truth of Christ.

As I’ve said, Christ never intended for any of His sheep to have to figure out which Church was true. It wasn’t a multiple choice question until the Reformation, which was caused by the ignorance of men on BOTH sides of the split. The sinful men in the Church at that time did as much damage as the reformers. Now we’re all suffering for it.

In Heaven, the Body of Christ will be no longer be divided. In the mean time, as Catholics it’s our job to try and bring the rest of the separated sheep home. It’s really tough, especially being mindful of people’s feelings. Sometimes hurt is caused unintentionally. After all, this is quite serious stuff we’re talking about.

I pray that I may learn true patience, charity, and understanding toward my Protestant Brothers. Please pray for me.
Peace be with you.

 

[trogiah]

Dear all,

this thread really hasn’t gone as I’d hoped.

Please let me clarify further. I’m trying to establish the Catholic Church’s position on forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians. I’m clear on the protestant position.

I have no doubt that priests have the God-given power to forgive sins.

So the question is, what does the CC teach regarding forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians who ask God directly instead of going to a priest?

Is this another grey area like evolution v creation?
Is it the case that absolution by a priest guarantees forgiveness while confession to God is less certain and depends on God’s mercy?

God bless and thanks for all the replies!
Noel.

As we can see from this thread, there are many Catholics who do not share exactly the same belief on this matter but I feel certain that the Catholic Church points to Jesus as the Way, the Truth, and the Life and Jesus said in a variety of ways but in very clear terms that a person who practices forgiveness will receive forgiveness. Period. No distinction is made between Catholics, non-Catholic Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, … .

peace

Jim

 

[4given]

Although I don’t share your beliefs either, I do have many loved ones that are Protestant and we strive to stay united as much as possibe against the anti-Christ spirit of the world. I respect your love for the Bible, and that you seek the truth of Christ.

As I’ve said, Christ never intended for any of His sheep to have to figure out which Church was true. It wasn’t a multiple choice question until the Reformation, which was caused by the ignorance of men on BOTH sides of the split. The sinful men in the Church at that time did as much damage as the reformers. Now we’re all suffering for it.

In Heaven, the Body of Christ will be no longer be divided. In the mean time, as Catholics it’s our job to try and bring the rest of the separated sheep home. It’s really tough, especially being mindful of people’s feelings. Sometimes hurt is caused unintentionally. After all, this is quite serious stuff we’re talking about.

I pray that I may learn true patience, charity, and understanding toward my Protestant Brothers. Please pray for me.
Peace be with you.

Your reply is gracious.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi,

Im a non-catholic Christian and I do believe we no longer need priests. Jesus Christ took care of that for us. When He died the veil ripped in half giving all of us a direct line to God. I believe that is where the priesthood ended and the new priesthood began. What I mean is that we are all considered priests and go directly to God. I know Im not explaining this well, but maybe another non-catholic will come along and do a better job

Sounds like water down Christianity to me… I don’t believe in the Protestant concept of eternal priesthood that all believers are infallible… IMO