Forgiveness for non-Catholics possible?

[awantz]

Hi,

Im a non-catholic Christian and I do believe we no longer need priests. Jesus Christ took care of that for us. When He died the veil ripped in half giving all of us a direct line to God. I believe that is where the priesthood ended and the new priesthood began. What I mean is that we are all considered priests and go directly to God. I know Im not explaining this well, but maybe another non-catholic will come along and do a better job

Amen!
You did a great job explaining it.

 

[Danno2281]

First of all, all sins are not mortal (“unto death”). The Catholic Church did not invent this distinction; the Holy Spirit makes the distinction clearly in 1Jn:5, 16-17.
The precepts of the Church have Christ for their authority; they are not simply human inventions (LkL10,16) and the reasons are always to help Christians to be more conformed to Christ. The disciplines were foretold by Christ Himself (Mk:2,20); He is both the authority for and the aim of these precepts.
The Sacrifice of the Mass is the Sacrifice of Calvary, re- presented (made present again) so that we might offer ourselves to our beloved Father through, with, and in His Son into Whom we were baptized. When we make present through Christ’s eternal priesthood (eternal because the one sacrifice is eternally made present[Mal:1,11]) the offering by Christ of His Body and Blood, we “proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes.”(1Cor:11,26). Because it is that one sacrifice, not repeated, but re-presented, those who would use it unworthily will “have to answer for the Body and Blood of the Lord.”(1Cor:11,28).
The Greek “tetelestai” (It is finished) is used in the Septuagint translation of Isaiah in exactly the same sense (“You have brought it to completion”) as the last word of Ps. 22. The last word was the completion of the Psalm begun as the cry, “My God, my God, why have You abandoned me?”
And we (obviously, I thought) believe that Christ’s blood is shed at Calvary; that we say that the manner is unbloody does not mean that blood is not present, but that it is not perceived sensibly. Tha “acidents” of blood are absent while the substance remains.
I wish you the peace that only He can give.

 

[mikew262]

There is no forgiveness. The catechism teaches there is no salvation outside the church. Only thru the grace of GOD. U have to repent and confess your sins without the sacrements your sins will not be forgiven only thru his mercy. LOVE PEACE MERCY THRU THE LOVE OF GOD

Reread your catechism, it does provide for exceptions.

Besides, it’s up to God to judge and provide forgiveness; we on earth do not dictate to him who can be forgiven and who can’t be.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

There is no forgiveness. The catechism teaches there is no salvation outside the church. Only thru the grace of GOD. U have to repent and confess your sins without the sacrements your sins will not be forgiven only thru his mercy. LOVE PEACE MERCY THRU THE LOVE OF GOD

I’m glad you’re not my judge. Jesus never said that non-Catholics wouldn’t be saved. He said that all who come to me and believe shall be saved.

 

[Danno2281]

Hello Danno, if you’ve nothing to offer as regards enlightening me on the catholic Church’s teaching on forgiveness for non-catholics, then I’m not interested! As soon as I see someone posting Jack Chick links, I immediately loose interest…

God bless,
Noel.

 

[Danno2281]

Noel,
We have a bit of confusion here. What you responded to was not my post, but the post to which I responded. Jack Chick just might be the last person in the world to whom I might refer anyone.

 

[nkelly]

Danno2281:
I presume your first post was accidental? If so, I apoligize.

God bless,
Noel.

 

[BigRedpg51]

The Sacrament of Penance (now known as Reconcilliation) is a process for Catholics whereby they can confess their sins to God through a duly-ordained priest. The priest has the power to hear a person’s confession, and to administer absolution…

Passage John 20:23:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (King James Version)

:yup: …because Jesus gave this authority to His Apostles (the first bishops of the Church), and it was handed down through the generations to present day.

Jesus also taught us that the only unforgivable sin is “blaspheming the Holy Spirit” (also known as “refusing the mercy and forgiveness of God”). God will not force his forgiveness on us – He has too much respect for our free will to do so.

Now, we Catholics are bound by the teachings and dogmas of the Catholic Church…therefore, going to Confession to God, utilizing a priest, is the normal means by which forgiveness (absolution) is administered to us. Non-Catholics, however, are not bound by the teachings of the Catholic Church if they – in good conscience – believe that those teachings are wrong, and the teachings of their religion are correct. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches us that these people – who are not Catholics – have just as much right to salvation if they truly believe that the religion that they follow is the one true path to God.

Thus, building upon this understanding that non-Catholics can, and if fact ‘do’, go to Heaven…does it make much sense to say that there is no forgiveness of sins for non-Catholics?

I thank God that God is not as restrictive on his dispostion of mercy as we are with each other at times! God’s mercy is not limited, or diminished in any way, simply because a person is not Catholic.

If a Catholic were to go to Confession and receive absolution, but were truly not sorry for his/her sin – or did not have any intention of avoiding that sin in the future (e.g. living with and having sexual relations with someone outside of the sacrament of Matrimony) – then, in truth, their sin would not be forgiven…even though they are Catholic and they used the proper means to acquire forgiveness.

It is also true…if a non-Catholic were sincerly sorry for their sin, with the intention of avoiding that sin in the future, who are we Catholics to say that that person would not be forgiven? It’s true that they would not benefit from the sacramental graces given by the sacrament of Reconcilliation, but God’s mercy would surely be dispensed to them. Are they not His children, too? Did He not create them, too, and desire that their souls enter Heaven one day also?

Of course forgivness is possible for non-Catholics!

 

[nkelly]

The Sacrament of Penance (now known as Reconcilliation) is a process for Catholics whereby they can confess their sins to God through a duly-ordained priest. The priest has the power to hear a person’s confession, and to administer absolution…

:yup: …because Jesus gave this authority to His Apostles (the first bishops of the Church), and it was handed down through the generations to present day.

Jesus also taught us that the only unforgivable sin is “blaspheming the Holy Spirit” (also known as “refusing the mercy and forgiveness of God”). God will not force his forgiveness on us – He has too much respect for our free will to do so.

Now, we Catholics are bound by the teachings and dogmas of the Catholic Church…therefore, going to Confession to God, utilizing a priest, is the normal means by which forgiveness (absolution) is administered to us. Non-Catholics, however, are not bound by the teachings of the Catholic Church if they – in good conscience – believe that those teachings are wrong, and the teachings of their religion are correct. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches us that these people – who are not Catholics – have just as much right to salvation if they truly believe that the religion that they follow is the one true path to God.

Thus, building upon this understanding that non-Catholics can, and if fact ‘do’, go to Heaven…does it make much sense to say that there is no forgiveness of sins for non-Catholics?

I thank God that God is not as restrictive on his dispostion of mercy as we are with each other at times! God’s mercy is not limited, or diminished in any way, simply because a person is not Catholic.

If a Catholic were to go to Confession and receive absolution, but were truly not sorry for his/her sin – or did not have any intention of avoiding that sin in the future (e.g. living with and having sexual relations with someone outside of the sacrament of Matrimony) – then, in truth, their sin would not be forgiven…even though they are Catholic and they used the proper means to acquire forgiveness.

It is also true…if a non-Catholic were sincerly sorry for their sin, with the intention of avoiding that sin in the future, who are we Catholics to say that that person would not be forgiven? It’s true that they would not benefit from the sacramental graces given by the sacrament of Reconcilliation, but God’s mercy would surely be dispensed to them. Are they not His children, too? Did He not create them, too, and desire that their souls enter Heaven one day also?

Of course forgivness is possible for non-Catholics!

Hello BigRed, welcome to the forums.

Not bad for a first post

I believe what you’re saying. Do you know where I might find the official Church teaching on this issue. Some encyclical maybe? I like to be certain of my facts when giving others information.

I could have chosen a better title for this thread too…

God bless,
Noel.

 

[jmcrae]

Noel,
We have a bit of confusion here. What you responded to was not my post, but the post to which I responded. Jack Chick just might be the last person in the world to whom I might refer anyone.

Danno;

It would be less confusing if you kept the quote and the response in the same post, instead of separating them into two different posts.

 

[BigRedpg51]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches us that these people – who are not Catholics – have just as much right to salvation if they truly believe that the religion that they follow is the one true path to God.

Thus, building upon this understanding that non-Catholics can, and if fact ‘do’, go to Heaven…does it make much sense to say that there is no forgiveness of sins for non-Catholics?

The passage in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that backs up this statement is paragraph #1260…

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

 

[sconea]

4given

Thanks for the concern but I don’t believe I’m trusting just my own idea of the truth. I’m trusting what the Bible says, even though you believe I’m unable to understand it without your church telling me what it says. I don’t expect you’ll understand. I don’t share your beliefs about the CC and that’s all I’d better say about that. In the end, we each make our own decision whom or what to believe or whether or not to let someone else tell us what we should believe. So, one day we’ll know for sure won’t we?

When you say you are “trusting in what the Bible says” you mean your own private interpretation of what the Bible means. So you are your own authority?

There are thousands of Protestant denominations each interpretating various verses differently. How do you know your own personal interpretation is true? Could you possibly not be interpreting correctly?
By the way the Bible says that **the Church ** (not a bible) is the pillar and foundation of the truth. (Timothy)

 

[BigRedpg51]

In Heaven, the Body of Christ will be no longer be divided. In the mean time, as Catholics it’s our job to try and bring the rest of the separated sheep home. It’s really tough, especially being mindful of people’s feelings. Sometimes hurt is caused unintentionally. After all, this is quite serious stuff we’re talking about.

I pray that I may learn true patience, charity, and understanding toward my Protestant Brothers. Please pray for me.
Peace be with you.

This shows true charity in the very best sense of the word, DesertBrother, and I wanted you to know how touched I was by your comment.

 

[SPH1]

Hi,

Im a non-catholic Christian and I do believe we no longer need priests. Jesus Christ took care of that for us. When He died the veil ripped in half giving all of us a direct line to God. I believe that is where the priesthood ended and the new priesthood began. What I mean is that we are all considered priests and go directly to God. I know Im not explaining this well, but maybe another non-catholic will come along and do a better job

You are not just rejecting the Catholic priesthood. You are rejecting Christ’s priesthood. The Catholic priesthood and the Sacraments are a primary means by which Christ excercises his living priesthood.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

For me, a Canadian Baptist in Africa converting to Catholicism, there is much in this thread that is disturbing to me: partly its arrogance, refusal to come to grips with the initial question, and lack of Christian ethics as opposed to Catholic sensitivity.

How arrogant it is, from the point of view of a Christian, to say:
*with regard to non-Catholics … if someone knew that he/she needed to become Cathoilc, and that he/she needed to go to Confession, and through pride or laziness decided against doing this, his/her soul is in his/her own hands, and he/she has made his/her own choice. [Just making a small point about the universal male bias of this site, in addition to my main point.}[/COLOR]

That is, if in our opinion you are pig-ignorant or distrustful of my theology - to hell. You cannot know this: only God judges.

When someone writes: I pray that I may learn true patience, charity, and understanding toward my Protestant Brothers. Please pray for me, then let me pray for the same toward my Catholic Brothers and Sisters. We are short on tolerance here, inappropriately for our era. Being patronising is not useful.

My sainted Victorian Baptist Aunt Mary watched a Quebec nun sweep past in full black habit, half a century ago. *Alas for that poor woman, *she said to much smaller me. *Why? *I asked in astonishment. *Because she is going straight to hell, although she has lived a good life. But she has lived it by the wrong principles, through the wrong church. *Bigotry has two sides: both women were by vocation Christians - at least my Aunt Mary was, as I have always assumed the nun was also.

When someone writes: How do you know your own personal interpretation is true? I must reply by asking how do you know that your personal or theological (Catholic) interpretation is correct?

And what about other religions: Islam, Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, about forgiveness of sins within Islam? Are they too settled by this Holy Catholic God?

And by the way, when we say in the Creed that we believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church (note lack of capital letters: check your missal) we need to be clear that the term catholic is derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), which means *general *or *universal. *When we make this statement it is on the understanding that all true Christians form a single united group, the body of Christ, founded by the apostles, and innately holy.

Don’t dump on my interpretation and I will not dump on yours.

One works hard to understand this great, confusing, sacred, uniquely historical, occasionally corrupt and viciously misled Catholic Church! It is also hard to deal in gross generalisations by Catholics, not heartening in terms of my growing love for this Church.

I hope the following helps answer the original question!

In the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, the Vatican II Council Fathers wrote: "Those who have not yet received the gospel are related to the People of God [ie Catholics of course] in various ways.

There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born.

The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, firstly the Moslems.

Nor is God remote from those who seek the unknown God, …since the Saviour wills all men to be saved.

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it.

Nor shall divine providence [exclude] those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who … strive to lead a good life.

Blessings. *

 

[Romans116]

To tell you the truth i think that all TRUE believers of JESUS CHRIST - whether your baptist, catholic, luteran, or just christian and your not sure about your “religion” - if you truly believe in JESUS CHRIST and do your absolute best to follow his WILL then you will be saved. AMENNNNN!

by the way, i am catholic. not that it matters but i thought id just let you guys know!

 

[kimball1]

But you have to believe in the right sacrifice and not in a false sacrifice. You must believe in the God of the Bible, not a god with attributes made by men.

Hebrews 9:22 - In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

 

[Bishopite]

JMcrae,

If you died today and came before a perfect and Holy God and He asked you why He should let you in His kingdom, what would your answer be?

Bud

Well, because I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior even (note that phrase is NOT in Scripture) and morover…I accept Him on my tongue and down my stomach every Sunday, as it says in John 6:5 "**Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you” **

So if you died today Bud would will you have been totally and completely sanctified?

 

[mikew262]

To tell you the truth i think that all TRUE believers of JESUS CHRIST - whether your baptist, catholic, luteran, or just christian and your not sure about your “religion” - if you truly believe in JESUS CHRIST and do your absolute best to follow his WILL then you will be saved. AMENNNNN!

by the way, i am catholic. not that it matters but i thought id just let you guys know!

I agree!

 

[kimball1]

You betcha!

That is why it is called the Good News.

I John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Sanctification is not salvation. When you confess to God you are a sinner and recongnize your condition and ask Jesus to be your savior, thus putting your trust in His one true Sacrifice, you will be fully justified on the bases of Christ dying in your place. Sanctification is a muturing in our walk with the Lord and has nothing to do with salvation.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:10-12 - Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Salvation is an immediate process.

Romans 10:9-11 - That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

Santification has to do with our spiritual growth after we are saved.

2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Peace and Grace,

Bud