Forgiveness of Sins without Confession

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Vico said:
You must be thinking of the plenary indulgence requirement, not perfect contrition.
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Can you put up the difference please. What I have is from two sources, Catholic Answers https://www.catholic.com/qa/how-do-i-make-an-act-of-contrition’When [contrition] arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.’

Which has been explained as complete detachment, hard to do

@Fuerza @BigRon
 
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As a protestant myself who agrees with confession, let me answer:

I believe the controversy is on necessary and some would say absolutely necessary
any educated protestant can look back to the reformation and read luther in his minor catechism where he says this:

How people are to be taught to confess
What is confession?
Confession consists of two parts. One is that we confess our sins. The other is that we receive the
absolution, that is, forgiveness, from the pastor as from God himself and by no means doubt but firmly believe that our sins are thereby forgiven before God in heaven.

Same with the anglicans, they use it very similar. Now let me say if they are protestants and believe as I do the scripture goes first, they should take a look to John 20:23 in greek and do serious exegesis.

Now let me show you an answer of Dr, Larry Hurtado (keep in mind he is one of the authorities on new testament) (and he is protestant) to one of my question on his blog:

Me:
Professor Hurtado Could you answer me this,

Let me first to thank you for your future answer and all what I haver learnt from your books and podcast.

Now here I go with the question:

If I am not wrong in the dead see scrolls (4q242) we got Nabonidus prayer saying that an unnamed jewish carismathic forgave his sins and healed his disease. This could be related to Mark chapter 2 when we see Jesus forgiving sins and healing. 1

If I keep in Mind that Jesus answers to the crew that he has authority for forgivness of sins, In John 20 23, when Jesus said to apostles that he was sending them as he was sent by the father and gave them “authority” for the forginess of sins. Then Could be that the christian denominations which has sacrament of confession got it right and we evangelicals not??

I would like to know you opinion on that.

1 Geza Vermes, Early Christian beginnings, page 15.

Professor Hurtado:

Miguel: More precisely, 4Q242 portrays Nabonidus saying that, after appealing to various deities, he then prayed to the Jewish god, and a Jewish exorcist forgave his sins and healed him. So, the exorcist in question is portrayed as acting as the agent of God in answering Nabonidus’ prayers.

To address your final question, yes, I think that there is more room for human agents of divine forgiveness than some Protestant groups allow for.

Having said that if you add that is absolutely necessary to go to a priest, then you would be speaking about your magisterium which is right for catholic. But protestants would see that at odds with the scripture as I do. The problem is no the confession but to say that confession through a man its totally necessary
 
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mdcpensive1 said:
In my apologetical readings and especially when talking with Protestants, they always seem to say that it is only necessary for the forgiveness of sins is to personally confess them to God instead of to a priest in the sacrament of Reconciliation found in John 20.
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Please understand that even from the very beginning in the Old Testament, God never permitted the Israelites to confess directly to God. They were required to confess to a priest - there was no other way.

Lev. 4:27-31 makes it clear that only the priest was able to forgive their sins through a sin offering from the penitent, and then making atonement for them. While the atonement was made by our High Priest, Jesus, we still need to confess to the priest all mortal sins. The O.T. example prefigured what would be necessary - confession to a priest who will appropriate the forgiveness obtained through Christ.
 
MCA said:
The problem is no the confession but to say that confession through a man its totally necessary
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Ah except, when we are engaging in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, we are not confessing through a man.
 
I know I dont think catholic and protestant are at odds on this. There are some differences but that’s all.
 
I could be wrong here so **I apologize If I missquote the catholic teaching:

I am sure yourself or @Bithynian or @Zaccheus or @Vico can correct me all the way

As far as I know penance is a must whether you do it or in some cases the priest can do it for you. But the penance must be made in order to get full forgiveness. Thats not the case for us protestants.

For protestants Confession to a presbyter is the best but if somebody does not want to do it, it is not a big deal. It is not a must.
 
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CCC
Only God forgives sin

1441 Only God forgives sins. Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: “Your sins are forgiven.” Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.
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Jesus gave authority to the Apostles to forgive sin which they handed down to their successors.

However, this does not exclude God’s forgiveness and mercy, as many in this forum seem to think.

If you have sinned, turn to God immediately and ask for forgiveness. Then, go to Confession as soon as you can.

Don’t wait until you can get to Confession before you turn to God.
 
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MCA said:
I could be wrong here so **I apologize If I missquote the catholic teaching:

I am sure yourself or @Bithynian or @Zaccheus or @Vico can correct me all the way

As far as I know penance is a must whether you do it or in some cases the priest can do it for you. But the penance must be made in order to get full forgiveness. Thats not the case for us protestants.

For protestants Confession to a presbyter is the best but if somebody does not want to do it, it is not a big deal. It is not a must.
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No, the sin is forgiven in confession without any penance. The Catholic teaching is shown in the Catechism of the Catholic Church on Satisfaction:
1459 … But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance”.
62 Cf. Council of Trent (1551): DS 1712.
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Sin is an obstacle to the Kingdom which Jesus delegated absolution (and restoration to the Kingdom) to Peter and his successors.
 
OurLadyofSorrows said:
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Vico:
You must be thinking of the plenary indulgence requirement, not perfect contrition.
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Can you put up the difference please. What I have is from two sources, Catholic Answers https://www.catholic.com/qa/how-do-i-make-an-act-of-contrition’When [contrition] arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.’

Which has been explained as complete detachment, hard to do

@Fuerza @BigRon
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Perfect contrition is not a description of complete detachment from all sin including venial as needed for a plenary indulgence. Attachment to sin is refusal to amend a situation. A person must have that disposition for all mortal sins in order to receive absolution in individual confession.
 
The question is why they need “perfect” contrition. Why is their sins not forgiven if they don’t have perfect contrition. Where does scripture say something about this…
 
Does scripture say we need perfect contrition ? I want to discuss with Protestants about the need for the Sacrament of Reconciliation instead of their idea of God forgiving their sins on any type of repentance.
 
Well, it helps to know the - ready??? - context in which James wrote it. As I see it, regardless of what others think, it does say to confess to another human being, not just to the air. The air? Remember that God may neither hear or heed their prayers if they are not truly contrite and have no intention of amending their lives.

Also, James may not be taken apart from the totality of the New Covenant. Thus, what Paul wrote and what our Lord taught place it in context. And, what is it we do during the confiteor?
“I confess to Almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have greatly sinned”
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The fulfillment of James.

Just sayin’
 
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It seems to me that the use of the Sacrament of Reconciliation can give Grace in special ways that personal repentance cannot. It would seem much better to go with the thing that gives the life of the Trinity into ones soul instead of just receiving forgiveness. Hope I am right.
 
For decades now, I have tried to make it a practice always to aspire to perfect contrition, and to make my acts of contrition in that fashion, and only that fashion. (Note, too, it is an act of perfect contrition, not a “perfect act of contrition” — there’s a difference.) I reason that I could get “caught short” at the end of my life, and would need to be in that habit, lest I risk losing my soul. Just to clarify, an act of perfect contrition is sorrow for one’s sins first and foremost due to their offense to Almighty God, not because you deserve to be punished for them. That’s what I try to do.

I have a very hard time believing that Our Lord, seeing a non-Catholic Christian trying to elicit contrition for their sins, someone who does not believe in confessing their sins to a priest and being forgiven in nomine Christi, would not supply both the grace and the forgiveness that this Christian would receive if they went to confession as a Catholic. I realize I can come across as kind of a jerk (there is a stronger word that I’m sure would run afoul of CAF) at times due to my vigorous defense of the Faith — not everyone wants to hear it — and I can live with being a “jerk for Christ” if I have to — but I’m not big enough of a jerk to think that Our Lord would refuse to forgive a mortal sin committed by a non-Catholic Christian because they don’t grasp the necessity of confession to a priest, and don’t understand the type of contrition they have to have for this sin to be forgiven.
 
From annother thread:
I did that once, until I suddenly realized that I was not arguing with the Priest, but rather with Christ Himself, represented by the Priest. I sighed and humbled myself. The absolution that followed was barely believable, almost indescribable. As the Priest pronounced absolution, I began violently shaking in my seat. So violently that Fr. took hold of me to keep me from falling. He simply looked heavenward and uttered, “Oh, Holy Spirit!” I was weeping and still shaking as I left. The power of God, the love of God will crush you in kindness.

Humility. Worth a try.
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HomeschoolDad said:
Just to clarify, an act of perfect contrition is sorrow for one’s sins first and foremost due to their offense to Almighty God, not because you deserve to be punished for them.
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If I may… The Act of Contrition as I’d learned it is:

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins because
I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of hell, But most of all because
they have offended Thee, my God, Who art all good and deserving of all my love.

I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace,
to confess my sins,
to do penance,
and to amend my life. Amen

The perfect act eliminates those Fears as shown in Bold

In my changing over to that - my outlook re: God took on a more meaningful sense.
 
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