Former Catholics - Mary worship

[adf417]

It think it may be an act of God’s wisdom that I’m not Roman Catholic - I could image being so frustrated by the constant accusations of worshiping Mary that I’d probably be tempted into giving a snarky reply along the lines of “Of course I worship Mary! And this candle too!”

It is very frustrating and I have stooped to those kinds of snarky replies in which I apologize profusely to anyone I have offended. :hug3:

However, as Doug S has pointed out, he does believe he once worshiped Mary and this is shocking to me and should be to all Catholics. Sure we can blame it on bad catechesis of how we view Mary but I think there is another underlying view for catechesis. That being the relationship of Mary worship to the real presence in the Eucharist.

I was hoping to get a better sampling of views on these two issues together from what I think is the only pertinent viewpoints, former Catholics, but it doesn’t look like I will be getting much feed back on this.

Peace!!!

 

[hello123]

As a boy in Sunday school, and vbs, I remember that in the parking lot of the church I attended there is a statue of Mary. We as a class during certain times we would go in front of the statue and pray. I also remember that in church there are statues of Mary on the left, and Joseph on the right. In front of these there are kneelers with many candles, and the stand has a slot to drop money into. I learned that the money was an offering for the souls in “Purgatory”.

I always felt that we were praying to Mary. I don’t know how to reconcile it as anything else especially when you are kneeling in front of a statue of her.

I always was curious as to the rosary having 90% of the prayers being said to honor Mary. If the intention is to ask for intercession, is not one time sufficient?

It is not my intention to start a ruckus here, I am only trying to participate. Sometimes threads like this can turn, in an unwanted direction.

Peace!!

Hi Doug,just read an article recently of a convert to the church.when,she attended rcia,she saw statues of saints and ran away,as she the thought in her mind that catholics do worship them.on another occasion,she saw a woman kneeling in front of mary’statue whilst praying and offering flowers,as well.she was disturbed and inquired a staff of marcus grodi of chn.org regarding this catholic practice.she was told ,that it is just like visiting a deceased loved one in cemetery,offering flowers and talking to him/her.what more ,with the mother of jesus! now,this person is a leader in her parish rcia program .she further narrated,that the first time she offered flowers to mary in front of her statue,she did weep.

 

[Darryl_B]

While not in any way defending those who view Catholics in that way, I think it a leap to imply that they teach this because they are afraid they will lose members to the Catholic Church. I frankly think that plays no role in the thought process at all.

Jon

Does a Lutheran have to leave their sense of humor at the door?

 

[aradford]

Maybe it’s different for all people, but for me there are times when it’s easier to relate to a human like Mary rather than God. I don’t mean that I pray to her, but Jesus listens to his mother and sometimes I feel like Mary intercedes for me to Him and asks him to overlook all of the bad things I have done.

 

[Dorothy]

Hi Doug,just read an article recently of a convert to the church.when,she attended rcia,she saw statues of saints and ran away,as she the thought in her mind that catholics do worship them.on another occasion,she saw a woman kneeling in front of mary’statue whilst praying and offering flowers,as well.she was disturbed and inquired a staff of marcus grodi of chn.org regarding this catholic practice.she was told ,that it is just like visiting a deceased loved one in cemetery,offering flowers and talking to him/her.what more ,with the mother of jesus! now,this person is a leader in her parish rcia program .she further narrated,that the first time she offered flowers to mary in front of her statue,she did weep.

This shows me that patient, charitable explanations work well!

No one knows more than our Blessed Mother that all the grace she has comes from the Lord!

 

[JonNC]

Does a Lutheran have to leave their sense of humor at the door?

Sorry, took your comment more seriously than you intended it. There are times I can be a tad dense.

What Lutherans are required to leave at the door is the beer.

In an ice chest.

For the Sunday afternoon cookout.


Jon

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

General note:
Hot Topic for the week of 3/3.
Please remain on topic.

 

[marywarfield]

While not in any way defending those who view Catholics in that way, I think it a leap to imply that they teach this because they are afraid they will lose members to the Catholic Church. I frankly think that plays no role in the thought process at all.

Jon

I would beg to differ actually. Firsthand experience
with former Catholics turned assembly of God tells
me that they take pride in renouncing loudly
with malice those of us with the simplest icon of
Mary in order to prove they have really been “saved”.
Otherwise after the screaming stopped some enterprising
Catholic might convince them to go to Confession
and have their mouths washed out with soap.

It’s not so much we worship Mary as we reject the
blasphemy God is insulted with when people attack
the Virgin Mary, God’s masterpiece of womanhood.
Attacking her that bore God Himself within her
is awful. Most anti Catholics would be horrified at
the thought of someone bombing their Church built
by human hands of wood and concrete but think
nothing of insulting Gods creation of the Mother
of His Son.

 

[Rich]

As a Catholic I don’t look at the “percentage” of prayers said to Mary. When I pray the Rosary I see it as Mary holding my hand as I meditate on the mysteries of her Son. No one knew Jesus better than Mary, and with her at my side I appreciate what the mysteries of the Rosary mean.

Please tell me one thing. The word of God says that Jesus by His spirit lives in side all believers. Also by God’s word we know that we have access to the Father by that same Spirit. So why should we pray to anyone else but Jesus?

 

[marywarfield]

Please tell me one thing. The word of God says that Jesus by His spirit lives in side all believers. Also by God’s word we know that we have access to the Father by that same Spirit. So why should we pray to anyone else but Jesus?

Under your reasoning what do you do with
“Whenever two or three are gathered in my name…”?

 

[Darryl_B]

Please tell me one thing. The word of God says that Jesus by His spirit lives in side all believers. Also by God’s word we know that we have access to the Father by that same Spirit. So why should we pray to anyone else but Jesus?

The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

Ergo Blessed Mary is regarded as a righteous person, as are the saints triumphant.

I see people asking pastors pray for them all the time. According to your observation the question should be asked why? Do those believers not have access to the Father?

It is the communion of saints, which I confess to believe, amongst other things.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Please tell me one thing. The word of God says that Jesus by His spirit lives in side all believers. Also by God’s word we know that we have access to the Father by that same Spirit. So why should we pray to anyone else but Jesus?

Do you ever ask your friends to pray for you?

Prayer is simply communication. it is not limited to "God alone’. I pray you, listen to me (as Shakespeare would, and did, say). . .asking the Virgin to join her prayers to ours is not ‘taking the focus away from God’. No Catholic goes to the saints ‘instead of Jesus’; instead, our prayers to them INCREASE the prayers to Jesus by adding ‘them’ to ‘us’.

Why should we limit prayer to Jesus to only OUR single voice when we can have others pray with us as well?

 

[Dorothy]

Please tell me one thing. The word of God says that Jesus by His spirit lives in side all believers. Also by God’s word we know that we have access to the Father by that same Spirit. So why should we pray to anyone else but Jesus?

As a Catholic I believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ gave Mary to us at the foot of the cross when He said to the apostle John “Behold your Mother”,and then to John “Behold your son”. We believe she has the privilege of being full of grace from the first moment of her conception in her mother’s womb, and that she is the perfect disciple of Jesus our Lord.

All the blessings and grace she has comes from the Lord, and she knows that “…for He that is mighty has done great things for me.” In spite of all the graces and blessings she had to be a woman of deep faith, humility, and love. It wasn’t a picnic for her. Simeon said “…and thine own soul a sword shall pierce.”

Mary magnifies the Lord! She is a great encouragement to me to focus on and love her Son more.

 

[pablope]

Please tell me one thing. The word of God says that Jesus by His spirit lives in side all believers. Also by God’s word we know that we have access to the Father by that same Spirit. So why should we pray to anyone else but Jesus?

A sense of humbleness, perhaps…let me share what one poster said on the communion of saints:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11012687#post11012687

In hierarchical terms, Mary (human) is higher than us, but infinitely lower than Christ (God and man).

Since the ancients understood their lowlinness in relation to God much better than we do, they naturally were attracted to the 100% human mother, whereby Christ could be accessed through her compassion and lowliness. Men knew they were lowly and unworthy. Mary was a human being, sharing in our lowliness. Yet she was also the Mother of God, and she had her son’s ear! Thus, many were instinctively drawn to approach God through His mother.

Today, man is arrogant. We don’t understand our own unworthiness in relation to God. Thus, for many, praying through Mary to Christ is not intuitive. But to men of the 1st and 2nd centuries, and later, it was just common sense. This Tradition has been handed on for 2000 years. But that is why Protestants don’t don’t “get it”, because their theology and spiritual practices have their roots in the 15th century, rather than in the ancient Traditions of The Church

 

[sennincatholic]

Never mind the fact that the Mysteries relate to the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ himself though.:coffeeread:

 

[JonNC]

Please tell me one thing. The word of God says that Jesus by His spirit lives in side all believers. Also by God’s word we know that we have access to the Father by that same Spirit. So why should we pray to anyone else but Jesus?

Parenthetically, I would assume you mean here pray to anyone other than God, since I can’t imagine why one would oppose prayer to the Father, or the Holy Spirit.

On the main point, I’m not Catholic in communion with the Bishop or Rome, and I don’t practice invocation of the saints, but I remain curious why one might think that when a Catholic says “prayer” to saints, they mean it the same way as prayer to God.
Catholics clearly state that the practice is not the same. They even talk about Latria, as contrasted to dulia or hyper-dulia. Why not take their word for it? It seems clear they mean it in the same way as when they, and we, ask others here on Earth to pray for us.

Maybe you can help me understand this.

Jon

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Of course not. Praying for someone is much different than praying to someone. Would you pray to your neighbor for your friend to overcome an illness? Yes, prayer is communication, but the common modern usage implies communication with the divine.

And, herein lise the problem.
Catholicism is 2000 years old; it is not a common, modern religion. Our beliefs, and alas, the wording we sometimes use, is indeed dated as far as the “common” meanings go.

But the meanings intended are not what the words have morphed into.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

As a boy in Sunday school, and vbs, I remember that in the parking lot of the church I attended there is a statue of Mary. We as a class during certain times we would go in front of the statue and pray. I also remember that in church there are statues of Mary on the left, and Joseph on the right. In front of these there are kneelers with many candles, and the stand has a slot to drop money into. I learned that the money was an offering for the souls in “Purgatory”.

I always felt that we were praying to Mary. I don’t know how to reconcile it as anything else especially when you are kneeling in front of a statue of her.

I always was curious as to the rosary having 90% of the prayers being said to honor Mary. If the intention is to ask for intercession, is not one time sufficient?

It is not my intention to start a ruckus here, I am only trying to participate. Sometimes threads like this can turn, in an unwanted direction.

Peace!!

Praying to isn’t the same as worshipping.

And as for the Rosary…just about every other word refers to Grace.

From Whom does Grace arise?

 

[cmodrmac]

Roman catholics do not worship Mary period

our Church honors Her as the Theotokos -the more intellectual and conservative the Congregation the more the Honor

I do agree that the Scriptures downplay the role of Mary-however the Jewish Society at that time downplayed women as well -
I think we and the LUtherans have a proper perspective on the Blessed Virgin

 

[MartinJordan]

Any time a prayer devoted to Mary begins (or any prayer) , it starts with invocation to God (In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) and ends the same. So, our focus is ALWAYS God. There is not such thing as Mary worship. That is never Catholic teaching.

MJ