Former Catholics - Mary worship

[cheese_sdc]

Are there any former Catholics here that can say you did worship Mary when you were Catholic? If not what do you say to those who believe you did?

Peace!!!

I didn’t worship Mary. But then again, I don’t really understand the over-the-top Marion devotions some Catholics have.

Well, I do understand them, but not in terms that most will find agreeable.

 

[dronald]

Sincere questions:

What’s different in a Catholic’s opinion when one is worshiping God or revering Mary? What sort of thoughts goes through ones mind or how does a Catholic feel different?

I’m also curious when it comes to prayer. When a Catholic prays the rosary, how does it feel or sound different than the Lord’s prayer other than what’s being said?

Thanks.

 

[rcwitness]

Sincere questions:

What’s different in a Catholic’s opinion when one is worshiping God or revering Mary? What sort of thoughts goes through ones mind or how does a Catholic feel different?

I’m also curious when it comes to prayer. When a Catholic prays the rosary, how does it feel or sound different than the Lord’s prayer other than what’s being said?

Thanks.

I do not have a great devotional prayer with Mary, but occassionally do pray to her for her aid in the grace and desire I have to grow in Jesus our God. I consider my prayer to Mary to be a petition to our most holy fellow member of the New Covenant faithfull. Her attributes as both physical mother to Jesus and the motherhood given to us from Jesus on the cross, brings grace from Jesus to those who keep His commandments.

Mary’s soul and participation in God’s salvation plan is so twain together with the Gospel that it becomes difficult if not impossible to worship the work of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and not love the work He has done in His mother. She is most transparent of the Faith and humility we are all called to.

I do happen to believe devotion to her can be and is abused by many. But I could not judge who, unless I had a direct relationship with them and they shared their personal beliefs, while the Holy Spirit illuminated my understanding. In general, the abuse would probably be in the perception that Mary is a sort of High Priestess who makes us clean in order to be saved and pray to Jesus.

Peace
Michael

 

[marywarfield]

Sincere questions:

What’s different in a Catholic’s opinion when one is worshiping God or revering Mary? What sort of thoughts goes through ones mind or how does a Catholic feel different?

I’m also curious when it comes to prayer. When a Catholic prays the rosary, how does it feel or sound different than the Lord’s prayer other than what’s being said?

Thanks.

I can answer part of this only for myself. It is difficult to
explain to a “non Marian” Christian but I will try.

First of all, yes Mary is our spiritual Mother. She is the
Mother of the Spirit we receive in Baptism in the Church.
How that actually communicates spiritually is a mystery
for sure but to my mind factual as I have seen the fruit
of it too many times to deny it. Mary, as Christ’s first apostle
and His Mother has only evangelizing for Her Son in mind.

Praying the Rosary to Mary while mentally contemplating and envisioning
the Trinity or Christ Himself in the Scripture and His Life
deepens one’s relationship with both the Father and
the Son, increases awareness of Christ’s very real Presence,
and provides proof of the truth of Scripture.
I believe that Mary is able to ask her Son to provide
spiritual graces of understanding and growth that
persons without access to Mary must necessarily
labor much harder to grasp. Mary as God Bearer makes
it more possible for us to be God Bearers ourselves to
others.

Last night while reciting the Rosary to Mary I spent
the time contemplating the Transfiguration of Christ.
after also reading of Christ’s Covenant Lawsuit he
brought against the Pharisees at the Temple.
This morning I woke up with an amazingly clear understanding
of that passage and interestingly enough the reality
of the Filioque or the procession of the Holy Spirit- something
I’ve wondered about for years and now it is suddenly crystal
clear as to how that functions in human beings. I
went to Mass this morning and was completely overwhelmed
by my immediate awareness of the fullness of His “Being There”
all the way through the Mass.
Most extraordinary morning and just one of many
mornings after reciting a Rosary I walked into Mass
and thought this is nothing but the absolute truth.

A mystery most wonderful.

 

[adf417]

Sincere questions:

What’s different in a Catholic’s opinion when one is worshiping God or revering Mary? What sort of thoughts goes through ones mind or how does a Catholic feel different?

Thank you for the questions dronald. Others have responded well and here is what I have to offer.

As an adder to what has already been said, once you understand the Eucharist in the manner Catholics do you begin to understand there is no possible way to worship anything else but that which you consume, God. When we eat His body and drink His blood this becomes the ultimate in worship. Even if one wanted to worship Mary, from a action form point of view, it is impossible. She did not nor could not leave us her body. I think of Satanist who try to mimic this form of worship in the drinking of the blood of animals, even they understand the form. God knew our need to physically have Him in our presence for worship purposes because of our weaknesses to overthink if we are truly worshiping or not.

I’m also curious when it comes to prayer. When a Catholic prays the rosary, how does it feel or sound different than the Lord’s prayer other than what’s being said?

I think this will be different for different people as the rosary is typically used for meditative purpose which is why I like the scriptural rosary most. Meditation, as you know, varies depending on atmosphere, feelings, needs… but as long as the goal is to get closer to or understand God better the mechanism becomes just that, a tool. If the rosary is looked at as “A” prayer as opposed to some prayers, similar to the Mass being “A” liturgical prayer, then the view of the rosary as a meditative tool to gain closeness or understanding is helpful.

Peace!!!

 

[nickybr38]

Clearly some non-Catholics believed this. The majority of Catholic-Protestant converts I saw as a Protestant told me that Catholics worship Mary.

In fact, before I converted I got into a heated debate with an ex-Catholic because by that point I knew a BIT about Catholic theology and was upset with him for misrepresenting Catholic teaching to a room full of Baptists.

 

[Mark121359]

I can answer part of this only for myself. It is difficult to
explain to a “non Marian” Christian but I will try.

First of all, yes Mary is our spiritual Mother. She is the
Mother of the Spirit we receive in Baptism in the Church.
How that actually communicates spiritually is a mystery
for sure but to my mind factual as I have seen the fruit
of it too many times to deny it. Mary, as Christ’s first apostle
and His Mother has only evangelizing for Her Son in mind.

Praying the Rosary to Mary while mentally contemplating and envisioning
the Trinity or Christ Himself in the Scripture and His Life
deepens one’s relationship with both the Father and
the Son, increases awareness of Christ’s very real Presence,
and provides proof of the truth of Scripture.
I believe that Mary is able to ask her Son to provide
spiritual graces of understanding and growth that
persons without access to Mary must necessarily
labor much harder to grasp. Mary as God Bearer makes
it more possible for us to be God Bearers ourselves to
others.

Last night while reciting the Rosary to Mary I spent
the time contemplating the Transfiguration of Christ.
after also reading of Christ’s Covenant Lawsuit he
brought against the Pharisees at the Temple.
This morning I woke up with an amazingly clear understanding
of that passage and interestingly enough the reality
of the Filioque or the procession of the Holy Spirit- something
I’ve wondered about for years and now it is suddenly crystal
clear as to how that functions in human beings. I
went to Mass this morning and was completely overwhelmed
by my immediate awareness of the fullness of His “Being There”
all the way through the Mass.
Most extraordinary morning and just one of many
mornings after reciting a Rosary I walked into Mass
and thought this is nothing but the absolute truth.

A mystery most wonderful.

Powerful post marywarfield! Reading your excellent response reminded me of these words of St. Alphonsus Ligouri;

***Saint Albert the Great applies to Mary a text from the Book of Wisdom and says that Mary forestalls those who have recourse to her by making them find her before they even look for her. Richard of Saint Victor says that the love which this good mother has for us is so great that, as soon as she is aware that we need something, she runs to help us. “She comes before she is asked.”

Now, if Mary is so good to all, even to the ungrateful and the negligent who do not love her and do not invoke her, how much more devoted will she be toward those who really love her and frequently call upon her? “She is easily found by them that seek her” (Wis 6:13). O how easy it is, says Saint Albert the Great, for those who love Mary to find her, and to find her filled with compassion and love! Our Blessed Mother protests: “Those who love me, I also love” (Prov 8:17). Though this most loving lady loves all people as her children, yet, says Saint Bernard, she knows and loves more tenderly those who love her. And these happy lovers of Mary, asserts Raymond Jordano, are not only loved by her, but are even served by her! ***

Peace, Mark

 

[rinnie]

As a boy in Sunday school, and vbs, I remember that in the parking lot of the church I attended there is a statue of Mary. We as a class during certain times we would go in front of the statue and pray. I also remember that in church there are statues of Mary on the left, and Joseph on the right. In front of these there are kneelers with many candles, and the stand has a slot to drop money into. I learned that the money was an offering for the souls in “Purgatory”.

I always felt that we were praying to Mary. I don’t know how to reconcile it as anything else especially when you are kneeling in front of a statue of her.

I always was curious as to the rosary having 90% of the prayers being said to honor Mary. If the intention is to ask for intercession, is not one time sufficient?

It is not my intention to start a ruckus here, I am only trying to participate. Sometimes threads like this can turn, in an unwanted direction.

Peace!!

I think that you are pretty much a fine example of why we get into this bind.

You give your opinion and people run with it,

Just curious Holy Mary Mother of God PRAY for US sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen.

If we were praying TO Mary why were we asking her to pray for us???

 

[rinnie]

Shalom Michael

Thank you for taking the time to rspond to my question - still, when you say “As far as I know, we are encouraged to ask for her prayers on our behalf” - It is this I am searching for in scripture…
Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,%between% for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures%between% every day to see if what Paul said was true.%between%

Go to the book of Job and see how God told Job to pray for his friend, Jobs prayers God would accept.

We know Mary is not in a state of sin, and her prayers are accepted.

 

[rinnie]

I didn’t worship Mary. But then again, I don’t really understand the over-the-top Marion devotions some Catholics have.

Well, I do understand them, but not in terms that most will find agreeable.

Look on the internet for the Stations of the cross through the eyes of Mary.

Then you will see!!

 

[Dorothy]

As a boy in Sunday school, and vbs, I remember that in the parking lot of the church I attended there is a statue of Mary. We as a class during certain times we would go in front of the statue and pray. I also remember that in church there are statues of Mary on the left, and Joseph on the right. In front of these there are kneelers with many candles, and the stand has a slot to drop money into. I learned that the money was an offering for the souls in “Purgatory”.

I always felt that we were praying to Mary. I don’t know how to reconcile it as anything else especially when you are kneeling in front of a statue of her.

I always was curious as to the rosary having 90% of the prayers being said to honor Mary. If the intention is to ask for intercession, is not one time sufficient?

It is not my intention to start a ruckus here, I am only trying to participate. Sometimes threads like this can turn, in an unwanted direction.

Peace!!

What jumped out at me first from your post is when you said “90% of the prayers being said to honor Mary.”

I was taught to meditate on the mysteries of our faith, which is the life of our Lord Jesus Christ. These mysteries are to be kept in our mind as we say the Hail Mary prayers for her intercession. No one was closer to our Lord than Mary. When I can see the mysteries through her eyes, then I can more easily grow spiritually.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I’m not a protestant but I think those who think this way have a very limited vocabulary and not a very in-depth understanding of history.

The Anglican protestants, Anglican Ordinariate Catholics, and other traditional Anglo-Rite English language marriage Liturgical texts have the phrase “with this ring I thee WORSHIP”,

What is the actual definition of the term “WORSHIP”? Other than the meaning of adoration to God, it is defined as “proper veneration/respect/esteem in the order which it is due, aka ‘Worth’-ship”.

Why shouldn’t Mary, other Saints, my parents, my wife, everyone in the image of God and His creation all be worshipped to the degree of his/their/its WORTH?

Granted, in the USA our linguistic understanding of the term is popularly very limited… but the key is to educate not dumb down our language!

 

[Bernard_Lyons]

Go to the book of Job and see how God told Job to pray for his friend, Jobs prayers God would accept.

We know Mary is not in a state of sin, and her prayers are accepted.

The comparison with Job’s friends ,for me,fails on this account : like his friends Job was still on earth; and praying ( or interceding on their behalf) to God in heaven.

If Job where in heaven and his friends were seen ( in scripture) to be (still on earth) asking Job ,for his intercession from heaven, then I could see the point!

Equally conspicuous by the absence of any significant scripture( in my opinion) is the exaltation Mary has received : equivalent to her son: “that holy thing which shall be born”
For me only Jesus was sinless : not his mother.

Luke 11:27 “a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice,and said unto him,Blessed is the womb that bare thee ,and the paps which thou hast sucked.”

What a moment! What an opportunity for the Son of God to give due reverence to his mother; not to mention guidance to future generations of the faithful.

(28) “But he said ,Yea rather,blessed are they that hear the word of God,and keep it”

For me it is very significant ( as a former Roman Catholic) that it was a woman in the company that asks this question to Mary’s son.Do we not find in this veneration of “Mary”,
The Male consistently displaced as the head of the house?

 

[RJB]

In just scanning these entries, I am reminded that we pray to Mary for her intercession to Jesus. She interceded for the wedding party in Cana when they ran out of wine. She said to Jesus, “They have no wine.” Jesus replied that His time had not yet come. Mary turned to the waiters and said, “Do whatever He tells you.” (That’s good advice for all of us and it’s her last recorded words in the Gospels.)

 

[dronald]

I’m not a protestant but I think those who think this way have a very limited vocabulary and not a very in-depth understanding of history.

The Anglican protestants, Anglican Ordinariate Catholics, and other traditional Anglo-Rite English language marriage Liturgical texts have the phrase “with this ring I thee WORSHIP”,

What is the actual definition of the term “WORSHIP”? Other than the meaning of adoration to God, it is defined as “proper veneration/respect/esteem in the order which it is due, aka ‘Worth’-ship”.

Why shouldn’t Mary, other Saints, my parents, my wife, everyone in the image of God and His creation all be worshipped to the degree of his/their/its WORTH?

Granted, in the USA our linguistic understanding of the term is popularly very limited… but the key is to educate not dumb down our language!

I think most Catholics will tell you that worship belongs to God alone.

But I am interested in the definition of "worship’ that Catholics have.

 

[Dorothy]

I think most Catholics will tell you that worship belongs to God alone.

But I am interested in the definition of "worship’ that Catholics have.

It seems to be about semantics. My understanding of worship is to adore God - as He is infinitely perfect and we can do nothing without Him.

I was taught the words “veneration” and “reverence” for the saints, as they are great examples of what can do when we cooperate with His grace. Of course, everything comes from the Lord. And I do believe in the intercession of the saints…they are family!

So, even if the word worship had a different meaning in days gone by, my understanding is different from that.

 

[dronald]

It seems to be about semantics. My understanding of worship is to adore God - as He is infinitely perfect and we can do nothing without Him.

I was taught the words “veneration” and “reverence” for the saints, as they are great examples of what can do when we cooperate with His grace. Of course, everything comes from the Lord. And I do believe in the intercession of the saints…they are family!

So, even if the word worship had a different meaning in days gone by, my understanding is different from that.

Then how does one worship a statue, worship Buddah or whatever without it just being reverence?

 

[SyroMalankara]

I think most Catholics will tell you that worship belongs to God alone.

But I am interested in the definition of "worship’ that Catholics have.

Traditionally, the Catholic definition was the same as the Old English meaning, which is still the common usage in the UK, Canada and many English speaking nations:

*Old English weorthscipe ‘worthiness, acknowledgment of worth’ (see worth, -ship).

Origin of WORSHIP
Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
First Known Use: before 12th century*

Example - Anglican and Anglican Ordinariate Marriage Liturgy:

*Then, as the groom places the ring on the bride’s finger, he says the following:

With this Ring I thee wed, with my body I thee worship, and with all my worldly goods I thee endow: In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

A translation of the Roman Rite Latin texts from Fisheaters:

• Then the priest sprinkles the ring (which is considered a sacramental) with holy water in the form of a cross; and the bridegroom, having received the ring from the hand of the priest, places it on the third finger of the left hand of the bride, saying the following:
  With this ring I thee wed and I plight unto thee my troth.

[Another form:

With this ring I thee wed; this gold and silver I thee give; with my body I thee worship; and with all my worldly goods I thee endow.

Another method of placing the ring on the bride’s finger is to slide it onto the thumb while saying “In the Name of the Father,” then onto the index finger while saying, “and of the Son,” and onto the middle finger while saying “and of the Holy Ghost,” then finally onto the ring finger while saying "Amen.] *

 

[Dorothy]

Then how does one worship a statue, worship Buddah or whatever without it just being reverence?

I don’t understand your question. If I kneel and pray before a statue or picture of the Lord, or His mother, I am not worshipping or giving any power to the statue/picture.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Besides, even if one accepts that the Christian image should be venerated/adored (as in the Eastern theology of Icons) because of who is presented; this does not apply to Buddha, since Buddha’s religion is false and he is no god nor saint.