Former Catholics...

[vocatio]

I understand what you mean. My agenda is to learn and share what I’ve learned and experienced. I don’t know if Catholics mean to purposefully deceive or if Protestants are so bent on refusing to believe that a Fundamentalist would ever convert to Catholicism. As I’ve stated, my wife comes from a fundamentalist family [as does my mother] all of whom, with exception to women, are in leadership roles. She’s the baby of 8 consisting of 4 boys and 4 girls. The women’s husbands are deacons or elders. Some of our nephews are preachers. The 2 oldest brothers [in their 60’s now] are fundamentalist church of Christ. Her dad was an elder or bishop/overseer in that faith. Their fundamental faith on salvation and teaches that we [Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Buhdist, Hindu, etc.] are all going straight to hell with no chance at all for salvation because we “refuse to accept the truth as in the New Testament”. Kind of grim, huh?

Anyway, I’m still learning about Judaism and other faiths. I even have the Quaran [Koran] in my library. I’m a graduate of Geography . I’ve researched many religions and would never dare to be so bold as to claim expertise in any of them except the one I have direct experience with in my life.

Again, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Shalom

 

[HashemEchad]

I understand what you mean. My agenda is to learn and share what I’ve learned and experienced. I don’t know if Catholics mean to purposefully deceive or if Protestants are so bent on refusing to believe that a Fundamentalist would ever convert to Catholicism. As I’ve stated, my wife comes from a fundamentalist family [as does my mother] all of whom, with exception to women, are in leadership roles. She’s the baby of 8 consisting of 4 boys and 4 girls. The women’s husbands are deacons or elders. Some of our nephews are preachers. The 2 oldest brothers [in their 60’s now] are fundamentalist church of Christ. Her dad was an elder or bishop/overseer in that faith. Their fundamental faith on salvation and teaches that we [Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Buhdist, Hindu, etc.] are all going straight to hell with no chance at all for salvation because we “refuse to accept the truth as in the New Testament”. Kind of grim, huh?

Anyway, I’m still learning about Judaism and other faiths. I even have the Quaran [Koran] in my library. I’m a graduate of Geography . I’ve researched many religions and would never dare to be so bold as to claim expertise in any of them except the one I have direct experience with in my life.

Again, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Shalom

You sound like an interesting person, someone I’d like to chat with in person if I could!

I am well aware of fundamentalist Protestants; my husband comes from a family of fundamentalists on both sides. His mother was a dedicated born-again Baptist.

On his father’s side, they actually disowned my husband’s half-sister because she converted to Catholicism when she married her husband! I was flabbergasted that they did that; I remember when one of his aunts died, we had to clean the house out and I found an old letter she had been sent by another family member, mourning because “little Johnny has to go to Catholic church…I feel so sad because he will never know the truth of the Savior”. (my husband said the letter was referring to a child of the half-sister.)

Anyway, my husband is a convert to Orthodox Judaism by way of the SDA church (he was first Baptist, then SDA, and then afdter a long period of soul searching, he became an Orthodox Jew. This was about 26 years ago.)

 

[AgnosTheist]

And if not why not?

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter.

1. I did not have any good reason to contact the bishop.
2. I did not know any *bishop, much less their address & telephone number

• except for the philippine Archbishop Cardinal Sin. (yes “sin” was his legal name, ironic.)

 

[vocatio]

You sound like an interesting person, someone I’d like to chat with in person if I could!

I am well aware of fundamentalist Protestants; my husband comes from a family of fundamentalists on both sides. His mother was a dedicated born-again Baptist.

On his father’s side, they actually disowned my husband’s half-sister because she converted to Catholicism when she married her husband! I was flabbergasted that they did that; I remember when one of his aunts died, we had to clean the house out and I found an old letter she had been sent by another family member, mourning because “little Johnny has to go to Catholic church…I feel so sad because he will never know the truth of the Savior”. (my husband said the letter was referring to a child of the half-sister.)

Anyway, my husband is a convert to Orthodox Judaism by way of the SDA church (he was first Baptist, then SDA, and then afdter a long period of soul searching, he became an Orthodox Jew. This was about 26 years ago.)

That’s interesting. I didn’t realize a non-Jewish person could convert to Orthodox Judaism.

I understand getting cut off as well. We are keeping our conversion to Catholicism under hat because once certain family members find out, getting cut off would be the easy part. It’s the driving us crazy part that will hurt the most. We are NOT interesting in hearing the hellfire and brimstones speeches about how we will burn in hell for leaving the Church of Christ. We definitly have to keep our children away from them. That’s what happened to me when I was a child.

I think along with all the other issues I’ve mentioned. My Dad was a Tradiional Catholic [non-Catholics go to hell] and mom was Protestant [Catholics are going to hell]. So I guess I struck a compromise to where both of them would go to hell. Yes that’s bad. But you have to admit its a bit humorous.

One more question: Do Orhtodox Jews believe in an after life? I’ve heard mixed information.

 

[vocatio]

1. I did not have any good reason to contact the bishop.
2. I did not know any *bishop, much less their address & telephone number

• except for the philippine Archbishop Cardinal Sin. (yes “sin” was his legal name, ironic.)

That is very funny. My best friend from the seminary is a Priest and is Philippino. He is a very good priest. He was unaware of what happened to me until recently. I guess he was so busy with graduation and I was hiding out totally hurt that our paths just missed. I finally contacted after all these years and have been trying to catch up slowly.

So why have you dropped out so to speak? What caused you to doubt in the existence of God. Yes, I believe I remember you from other posts. Correct me if I missed something. I’ve come close to even atheism at the most difficult times in my life. But after studying biology, philosophy and other “stuff” I really have this strong feeling that God must exist. As strange as many of my stories are to others, they are my experiences and I don’t feel that it is required of me to actually explain. God has shown me His existence in a special way that removed all doubt in him. I’m at peace with that now and ever since then I’ve wanted to try to get to know Him as much as I can before my time comes to an end.

I’ve figured that if for any reason His is not there, I’ve lived a decent life. All the things that “worldly” people desire are of no interest to me. My family tries to live by the rule of St. Francis. We have yet to take vows in the secular order, but we may end up in that direction one day. My son has voice interest in becoming a Franciscan Friar. I plan to apply officially for the diaconate since I feel that God is calling me to serve him in a deeper way. My wife said that had she grown up Catholic, she would have most likely joined a religious order. I’ve never seen my wife so at peace before.

I hope you find what you’re looking for. But I can’t help wonder, if you truly doubt in the existence of God or just believe you can’t konw, then why do you hang out on the boards?

 

[HashemEchad]

That’s interesting. I didn’t realize a non-Jewish person could convert to Orthodox Judaism.

One more question: Do Orhtodox Jews believe in an after life? I’ve heard mixed information.

It amazes me when I hear people say that they didn’t realize Gentiles can convert to Orthodox Judaism. I say it amazes me because around here, in the Orthodox community where I live, it seems that most of the Orthodox Jews are converts (or at least a high percentage of them!) My husband is one of them, too.

Yes, Orthodox Jews believe in an afterlife. Its most of the other Jews who don’t. We also believe in the techiyat ha’meitim, or resurrection of the dead at the End of Days.

You can find out almost anything you want to know about what Orthodox Jews believe by going to simpletoremember.com

 

[Madaglan]

If you have left the Church either now or before returning, did you officially renounce the Church by submitting a letter to your bishop? If so why? And if not why not?

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter. I was officially baptized in a Protestant Church and the Catholic Church still did not reconize that as an official defection. I was still considered Catholic…which made coming back home much easier too. So if that is a door you want to leave open I guess you can. But if you’re brave enough to tallk about it, then please do. No body’s reason could ever trump mine, unless you were killed of course.

What reasons would one want to “officially” become excommunicated from the Latin Church? There is a certain vindictiveness suggested by writing a letter asking a bishop to become excommunicated. The only reason I can see why a person might want to become officially excommunicated is as personal self-affirmation of a new path one has taken. But I think this an exception. It would seem that most people would take the trouble to ask for excommunication for the thrill, to assert one’s believed new freedom from an authority perceived false, etc.

I was just recently chrismated into the Orthodox Church, although baptized in the Latin Church. I can no longer believe certain things the Latin Church holds true. I guess the Latin Church still considers me a Catholic (although schismatic?) and considers my change a mortal sin, and my missing Sunday obligation Masses mortal sin as well. If push comes to shove, I’ll publicly reject the Catholic Church, or at least certain of its teachings. But I don’t want to create a show, and right now I’m trying to keep low on the radar screen, since many people don’t know of my change yet and still think me Latin Catholic.

I wouldn’t mind opnely advertising my change, except it would be very unwise (for reasons I won’t go into here)

 

[Madaglan]

It amazes me when I hear people say that they didn’t realize Gentiles can convert to Orthodox Judaism. I say it amazes me because around here, in the Orthodox community where I live, it seems that most of the Orthodox Jews are converts (or at least a high percentage of them!) My husband is one of them, too.

Yes, Orthodox Jews believe in an afterlife. Its most of the other Jews who don’t. We also believe in the techiyat ha’meitim, or resurrection of the dead at the End of Days.

You can find out almost anything you want to know about what Orthodox Jews believe by going to simpletoremember.com

Are Gentile converts to Orthodox Judaism allowed to marry Orthodox Jews (non-Gentiles)? I thought that Orthodox Jews wanted to stay free from mixing with Gentile lines, not out of racist reasons, of course, but because of the belief that the Jews are God’s chosen people. Perhaps you can clear this up for me, however.

 

[SIA]

If you have left the Church either now or before returning, did you officially renounce the Church by submitting a letter to your bishop? If so why? And if not why not?

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter. I was officially baptized in a Protestant Church and the Catholic Church still did not reconize that as an official defection. I was still considered Catholic…which made coming back home much easier too. So if that is a door you want to leave open I guess you can. But if you’re brave enough to tallk about it, then please do. No body’s reason could ever trump mine, unless you were killed of course.

This seems like an identical thread to another here. I am well aware that the RCC still considers folks as members even though they walked long ago. It is all politics though and laughable. If one chooses to walk away, they obviously do not wish to belong to the church anymore. It’s the person’s decision, not the RCC.

 

[estesbob]

This seems like an identical thread to another here. I am well aware that the RCC still considers folks as members even though they walked long ago. It is all politics though and laughable. If one chooses to walk away, they obviously do not wish to belong to the church anymore. It’s the person’s decision, not the RCC.

When one chooses to walk away I wonder why they choose to post in Catholic forums. To me it always seems their posts are more geared towards convincing themselves they made the right decison than it is to convince us.

 

[Madaglan]

When one chooses to walk away I wonder why they choose to post in Catholic forums. To me it always seems their posts are more geared towards convincing themselves they made the right decison than it is to convince us.

Or, they could be like me: posting here for several years, long before even considering Orthodoxy (or whatever other religion they chose). I continue to post here because this forum is quite active, and I still have a certain interest in Western Christianity (Catholic and Protestant alike).

 

[SIA]

When one chooses to walk away I wonder why they choose to post in Catholic forums. To me it always seems their posts are more geared towards convincing themselves they made the right decison than it is to convince us.

I am convinced that it is for the same reasons that former Protestants turned Catholic go back and post on Protestant forums. Its always exciting to share and test your newly found faith. Why not? Paul encourages us to wrestle with the Scriptures so why not?

 

[vocatio]

What reasons would one want to “officially” become excommunicated from the Latin Church? There is a certain vindictiveness suggested by writing a letter asking a bishop to become excommunicated. The only reason I can see why a person might want to become officially excommunicated is as personal self-affirmation of a new path one has taken. But I think this an exception. It would seem that most people would take the trouble to ask for excommunication for the thrill, to assert one’s believed new freedom from an authority perceived false, etc.

I was just recently chrismated into the Orthodox Church, although baptized in the Latin Church. I can no longer believe certain things the Latin Church holds true. I guess the Latin Church still considers me a Catholic (although schismatic?) and considers my change a mortal sin, and my missing Sunday obligation Masses mortal sin as well. If push comes to shove, I’ll publicly reject the Catholic Church, or at least certain of its teachings. But I don’t want to create a show, and right now I’m trying to keep low on the radar screen, since many people don’t know of my change yet and still think me Latin Catholic.

I wouldn’t mind opnely advertising my change, except it would be very unwise (for reasons I won’t go into here)

Like I said, I came back to the Catholic Church kicking and screaming. I was trying to get my wife to look at the Orthodox Church with me in the beginning of realizing that the early church was in fact “one holy catholic and apostolic church”. I’ve had many discussions with Orthodox priests and eventually dealt with one issue after another. I discovered the differnces over time and a lot of pulling teeth for some strange reason. You’d think that a person looking into converting to Orthodoxy would be received with a welcome. But that was not my overall experience. I finally got hold of one priest that realize my sincerity and explained to me the differences. I was trying to figure out what the difference was between the Eastern Orthodox Rites and the Eastern Catholic Rites. Too much for this. If I had my way, we go to the Byzantine Catholic side of the Church. Again. to much for this sight to get into any depth. My wife found a chikoti for me this last Christman from an Orthodox Monestary I believe. I love the Jesus Prayer. I still say it from time to time.

I am surprized that the Orthodox didn’t require you to submit the letter. Have you ever discussed it with your priest?

 

[vocatio]

This seems like an identical thread to another here. I am well aware that the RCC still considers folks as members even though they walked long ago. It is all politics though and laughable. If one chooses to walk away, they obviously do not wish to belong to the church anymore. It’s the person’s decision, not the RCC.

I believe I brought this up and the question just kept coming up to me over and over, so I just made a new thread on the subject by itself.

I wonder if the Catholic Church leaves the issue alone just to keep a low profile on the matter. The reality is that it would be considered a scandal and this is a way the Church leaves the light on and the door unlocked or open. There are many that are returning home these days. Our RCIA class was huge, the largest in the Diocese. Over all I was way surprized over the pure numbers coming into the Church for the first time and many of them as active in their Protestant churches as we were. The one thing that older Catholics seemed to have in common is divorces that were never dealt with properly.

 

[vocatio]

When one chooses to walk away I wonder why they choose to post in Catholic forums. To me it always seems their posts are more geared towards convincing themselves they made the right decison than it is to convince us.

That’s partly what I beleive. But I beleive some of them are here to “SAVE” the lost. That is what I originally set out to do. I ended up saving myself from my own foolish thinking. Things are becoming more clear by the day. But I don’t expect others to understand what I’m actually saying. Some do. Some don’t. That’s all.

 

[vocatio]

Or, they could be like me: posting here for several years, long before even considering Orthodoxy (or whatever other religion they chose). I continue to post here because this forum is quite active, and I still have a certain interest in Western Christianity (Catholic and Protestant alike).

Don’t forget there are Western Orthodox Christians. I believe that the CAF modified the Eastern Orthodox side of the forum because many of the Orthodox posed things unexplainable by Latin Catholics. But I am pleased to see that they changed it to Eastern Catholic instead. The Latin Catholics really need to learn about Orthodoxy/Eastern Catholics. Like I said I prefer the Divine Liturgy and would jump to it in a heartbeat if my wife were open enough to it. But I am discerning my vocation to the diaconate in the Latin Rite instead. Changing rites would only cause more stress on an already stressed out domestic church.

 

[vocatio]

I am convinced that it is for the same reasons that former Protestants turned Catholic go back and post on Protestant forums. Its always exciting to share and test your newly found faith. Why not? Paul encourages us to wrestle with the Scriptures so why not?

Yes. I agree with you here. But the more I learn the Catholic faith the less I even want to post there. Originally I did that and ran into one road block after another just trying to share my experiences. But many of them, former same faith, were just rude and obnoxious. So I bid them fairwell and now the Catholics from that group split off and created a new forum. I only share it once in a while. Occassionally we get some interesting proselytizers that think they have all the answers too.

It was an Orthodox preist that opened my eyes to what I was really doing…running away from a problem. I had issues with unmarried priests. He knew about my story and went down that road and ended up really trying to say some things that came across uncharitable towards Catholicism as a whole. It looked more like double talk to me. I talked to several priests and was not satisfied with their justification for choosing certain sides of an issue. Papacy was the main issue. I’ve read enough of the ancient church fathers and comments written by Orthodox to beleive that much of what is made into a mountain is really a mole hill. I see so much similarity that it just is undeniable.

I had issues with praying to dead people iniitally, Marian devotions, and lots of other typical things in the beginning. So much so that I tried to get my wife to visit an Episcapol Church. But her response to that is that they are like Methodist…liberal and accept gay marraiges and women in leadership/priest/ministers. That is just taboo and fundamentally wrong right out of scriptures. So then where to we go. It reminds me of John 6 when Jesus turned to his disciples and asked them if they were gonig to leave too… I prayed a lot about it. I was stressed out about it. As I read more and more about infant baptism and celibacy and the communion of saints I began to understand. You see I regognized that the church looked Catholic /Orthodox in the beginning. It looked really molre Orthodox to me at first and then of course I discoved that the Eastern Catholic Rites reflect what the Orhtodox look like. So much that there has been a lot of going back and forth. It seems that the Orhtodox converts are the more progressive in arguing. And many of the priests are very …well should I say “rude” to non-Orthodox in my own experience and from what I’ve read online…here. That lead me to realize that I can’t decide based on just how “nice” some group is to me or others. But it does help.

It was a couple of humble Friars that helped me. And lots of reading/studying. I printed out a history book from the Orhtodox perspective and read much of it as well. The more I read the more I loved the Orhtodox liturgy. That is why I lean towards the East so to say. I really would love to see Church unity happen soon. I’m a realist though.

Most of what non-Catholics say about the Catholic Church is just not true. It takes a lot of understanding to get past some teachings. I still look into everything regularly. I haven’t found the counter evidence that convinces me yet that the Catholic Church wasn’t the original Church. I believe that the Original Church was in fact Orhtodox and Catholic united. It’s a historical fact. I do believe that a lot of Catholics did a lot of bad things in the past. But I also beleive that the Orhtodox did a lot of bad things too. I also believe that some of what the Catholic Church did was in self-defense and visa versa…including with conflicts with Muslims. The more modern day issues are with mainly Protestants…fundamentalist crazy types that say all kinds of bad, mean, false things and do it without charity.

 

[Madaglan]

Like I said, I came back to the Catholic Church kicking and screaming. I was trying to get my wife to look at the Orthodox Church with me in the beginning of realizing that the early church was in fact “one holy catholic and apostolic church”. I’ve had many discussions with Orthodox priests and eventually dealt with one issue after another. I discovered the differnces over time and a lot of pulling teeth for some strange reason. You’d think that a person looking into converting to Orthodoxy would be received with a welcome. But that was not my overall experience. I finally got hold of one priest that realize my sincerity and explained to me the differences. I was trying to figure out what the difference was between the Eastern Orthodox Rites and the Eastern Catholic Rites. Too much for this. If I had my way, we go to the Byzantine Catholic side of the Church. Again. to much for this sight to get into any depth. My wife found a chikoti for me this last Christman from an Orthodox Monestary I believe. I love the Jesus Prayer. I still say it from time to time.

I am surprized that the Orthodox didn’t require you to submit the letter. Have you ever discussed it with your priest?

My priest knows the background from which I come. I don’t personally know of any Orthodox converts who have written to their previous [Catholic] bishop regarding their change of church. I’m aware that some Orthodox, in the reception rite, spit towards the Devil and renounce former heresy.

 

[Madaglan]

Don’t forget there are Western Orthodox Christians. I believe that the CAF modified the Eastern Orthodox side of the forum because many of the Orthodox posed things unexplainable by Latin Catholics. But I am pleased to see that they changed it to Eastern Catholic instead. The Latin Catholics really need to learn about Orthodoxy/Eastern Catholics. Like I said I prefer the Divine Liturgy and would jump to it in a heartbeat if my wife were open enough to it. But I am discerning my vocation to the diaconate in the Latin Rite instead. Changing rites would only cause more stress on an already stressed out domestic church.

There’s a Western Orthodox parish about 50 minutes from where I live. I’ve been there several times. The parish is connected with the Antiochian Orthodox Church.

Wish you the best of luck in deciding where you belong.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally posted by vocatio:

I’ve read enough of the ancient church fathers and comments written by Orthodox to beleive that much of what is made into a mountain is really a mole hill. I see so much similarity that it just is undeniable.

For me, the experience was and still is different.

As I read more and more about infant baptism and celibacy and the communion of saints I began to understand. You see I regognized that the church looked Catholic /Orthodox in the beginning. It looked really molre Orthodox to me at first and then of course I discoved that the Eastern Catholic Rites reflect what the Orhtodox look like.

The Eastern Catholic churches should reflect in their beliefs and spirituality the Eastern Churches.