Former Catholics...

[cheddarsox]

When one chooses to walk away I wonder why they choose to post in Catholic forums. To me it always seems their posts are more geared towards convincing themselves they made the right decison than it is to convince us.

I originally came here to find some information on Catholicism because a friend asked me a question, and I wanted to make sure I had it right.

There are lots of interesting discussions going on here, and I was pretty active for awhile, but then it was mostly the same things over and over. But I have some friends here, so I come back to message with them, and if I see an interesting topic pertaining to non-Christians, former Catholics, or some other topic that I have experience in, sometimes I’ll get involved.

So that’s how I ended up here and why I sometimes get involved. I enjoy discussing religion, I belong to several religious forums, and since I actually know something about Catholicism, it makes more sense for me to comment on it than a faith I know nothing about.

I spend most of my time on forums pertaining to my own faith.

 

[vocatio]

For me, the experience was and still is different.

The Eastern Catholic churches should reflect in their beliefs and spirituality the Eastern Churches.

So you’ve been to a Divine Liturgy in and Eastern Catholic Rite? Or did you think I was comparing just the Latin Rite?

And for the last comment. I think you said basically what I was trying to say. I’m not arrogant about the matter at all. I have to say that it was the Orhtodox Church that brought me back home to my Latin Rite. Long intricate complex story.

 

[Madaglan]

So you’ve been to a Divine Liturgy in and Eastern Catholic Rite? Or did you think I was comparing just the Latin Rite?

And for the last comment. I think you said basically what I was trying to say. I’m not arrogant about the matter at all. I have to say that it was the Orhtodox Church that brought me back home to my Latin Rite. Long intricate complex story.

I meant my reading of the Church Fathers. In reading them as a Catholic, I discerned a tonal incongruity. They didn’t sound Protestant, certainly not evangelical Protestant, but they also seemed a little too “disorganized” to be what I then understood to be Roman Catholic.

I took them as “less developed” Catholics–Catholics to be sure, but not as divinely illumined as Catholics today are with a fuller, developed appreciation of Christian truths.

 

[CarrieH]

Getting back to the OP’s question, I converted to the RCC from the Methodist church. A few years ago, I went through a period when I thought I wanted to be a Methodist again. I resigned from my parish but just told them that I was “going back to my old church,” not that I was leaving altogether, and for all they knew, I was just going back to St. So-and-so’s across town. I didn’t know about writing to the bishop, and it’s a good thing, because after a few months, I missed the Real Presence in the Eucharist and decided to come back home. All I had to do was go to confession. Interestingly, every time I tried to make a step forward as far as reinstating my membership in the Methodist church, something got in the way – the secretary was out of town, the computers were down, the pastor was away…yet when I wanted to return to the RCC, it was smooth sailing all the way. I even found a parish which offered confession the very next day after I made the decision to come home.

 

[vocatio]

I meant my reading of the Church Fathers. In reading them as a Catholic, I discerned a tonal incongruity. They didn’t sound Protestant, certainly not evangelical Protestant, but they also seemed a little too “disorganized” to be what I then understood to be Roman Catholic.

I took them as “less developed” Catholics–Catholics to be sure, but not as divinely illumined as Catholics today are with a fuller, developed appreciation of Christian truths.

Many of the ancient church fathers would have looked eastern I believe. So no surprized there to me. I also think that the early church was still forming back then. The liturgy was in full swing, but St. John Chrystosom (spelling) reduce it and others as well. So yes in many ways they were not so clear as it is today…so it seems. But I’m no expert. I’m still reading, sharing and learning.

 

[Mickey]

The liturgy was in full swing, but St. John Chrystosom (spelling) reduce it and others as well. So yes in many ways they were not so clear as it is today…so it seems.

The Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom is a shortened form of the Divine Liturgy of St Basil the Great. St Basil was Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia from 370—379AD. Both are derived from the Divine Liturgy of St James—so named after James the Just, the brother of the Lord.

The Divine Liturgy has changed very little since the time of St John Chrysostom (born 347 in Antioch).

So needless to say, the early Church Fathers would be quite familiar with today’s Divine Liturgy and would be very confused by the Novus Ordo as set forth by Vatican 2.

 

[Mickey]

I have to say that it was the Orhtodox Church that brought me back home to my Latin Rite.

Interesting. It was the Latin Church that brought me home to the Holy Orthodox Church.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Wow! That must mean that the Catholic count is terribly over inflated.

Mormons have the same practice. And you’re never really deleted from the rolls, you are just identified as a person who once was Mormon and now has left the faith. In other words, your record is never deleted, it is only updated.

I suspect that the membership counts of most faiths are inflated, but not in a deliberate effort to mis-represent their numbers. Every church holds out the hope that inactive members will return to activity.

 

[vocatio]

The Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom is a shortened form of the Divine Liturgy of St Basil the Great. St Basil was Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia from 370—379AD. Both are derived from the Divine Liturgy of St James—so named after James the Just, the brother of the Lord.

The Divine Liturgy has changed very little since the time of St John Chrysostom (born 347 in Antioch).

So needless to say, the early Church Fathers would be quite familiar with today’s Divine Liturgy and would be very confused by the Novus Ordo as set forth by Vatican 2.

That is really interesting. Thanks I’ll added it to my brain. I read something about this a long time ago but I guess it got stuck in the quagmire or conversion. It wouldn’t be the first time my memory failed me in such detail though. Have a good book on the subject?

 

[vocatio]

Interesting. It was the Latin Church that brought me home to the Holy Orthodox Church.

Mickey, were you Catholic and how far did you get sacramentally speaking in the Latin Rite if so? Hey, the only reason I’m still Latin Rite is really because of my wife and oldest son. I recognized the Liturgy more in tradition than I do the Latin Rite, particularly the Novus Ordo. I’d really like to dig deep into the changes of the Liturgy to see how it transformed into todays Liturgy. That wold be a very interesting study.

 

[vocatio]

In case I didn’t make this clear. I still feel called to the priesthood and have struggle with it so much. I love my wife and children. But I’ve always felt a strong calling to the priesthood. Had my in-laws not gotten hold of me when they did I’d most likely be a priest today. But I believe that God leads us where go and sometimes we mess things up but he shows us other ways to serve him…like a make up test. Transferring to the Eastern Catholic is just not that easy to do if you’re thinking about the priesthood. But I’d still like to go and receive the sacrament of holy orders to the diaconate there as well. However, I’m trying to build up my knowledge about Orhtodoxy and Catholicism [East and West]. I’d love to work in a ministry dedicated to bringing the 2 closer together, but realizing there are very long memories at work.

 

[vocatio]

Here’s a strange analogy, but in a way it is appropriate.

When I first married my wife, I thought she was homely looking. I had a picture in my mind of what a beautiful woman looked like. She did not fit the mold. However, over the first few years, she grew her hair out a little different and I bought her nice clothes to wear. It wasn’t until about October that I first realize just how beautiful …her …entire person was I’ll say here. She was rather “hot”. Sorry about the imagery. But trying to make a point. I never really noticed because I didn’t ever want to be accused of marrying for the wrong reasons. She was a very Christian woman. A few years later, I started to notice even more now that I was back in college after a 4 year military tour. The campus I studied at was know for “hot babes”. I used to think I was such a good Christian man that I could easily put blinders on and walk through campus without temptation. Well, looking back now that we’ve been married for 19 years, I look at an old picture I found of her holding a puppy we bought in our 4th year of marriage. She is absolutely the hottest thing I’ve ever seen. No wonder I had the discipline to keep my blinders on. I was so dense I didn’t notice how beutiful she actually was compared to all of the other “hot babes” or as I typically would say “beautiful girls”. In case you’re wondering, SWT - Southwest Texas State University. We no where near there anymore. You see I was so close to her that I seemed to focus mostly on her flaws rather that her real overall beauty. She is really a beautiful woman. That would explain why our daughter is so beautiful.

Since her convertion to Catholicm, I’ve noticed a major change in her that significantly changes the dynamic of our relationship. She is absolutely knock out gorgious still, not only outside, but inside. She’s the beautiful Catholic girl I never found in my youth. God answered my prayers that if he wasn’t calling me to the priesthood to find me a good faithful Catholic woman to marry. Sure, it was a work around answer but it works for me. I still see the beautiful woman even though we’re much older and have 3 active beautiful children and we’re worn out and stressed from keeping our conversion secret from the family.

I have a feeling…a feeling…hmmm…Anyway. I have a feeling that unity is something that could be within grasp if we…our leaders in particular…were to “restart” from where we separated. I’ve wondered if there is a way [call me naive] we can just go back to where we were together and go from there. It would take years to come to where the Latin Church is at now. Assuming the theology is correct and strong both sides could in fact find a “safe” ground from which to communicate. You see false pride is not of God. So why continue to bicker over the “little” flaws. My wife’s flaws seemed like mountains, but when I stepped back and looked, she is absolutely almost perfect. I’m a lucky man to have someone like her love someone like me.

Just thinking and really thinking about my beautiful bride now:blush: . Have a good weekend and stay our of trouble. We looking at teaching for a living now so we’ll be busy. I may take my son to an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy this Sunday if he or me are not serving.

 

[MelanieAnne]

That’s a beautiful testament of love Vocatio. Sounds like your wife is beautiful inside & out and you have been blessed to perceive it in its entirety. Thank you for sharing that.

I too will welcome the day when we put all the parts of Jesus’s body back together! We need to be one church. That’s what He wanted!

 

[JOL]

If you have left the Church either now or before returning, did you officially renounce the Church by submitting a letter to your bishop? If so why? And if not why not?

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter. I was officially baptized in a Protestant Church and the Catholic Church still did not reconize that as an official defection. I was still considered Catholic…which made coming back home much easier too. So if that is a door you want to leave open I guess you can. But if you’re brave enough to tallk about it, then please do. No body’s reason could ever trump mine, unless you were killed of course.

I wrote a letter, just never mailed it. I didn’t know this is how one actually, officially, left the Catholic church. I just wrote it because of my hate for the Catholic church. Again though, I am glad I didn’t mail it because I am in a place where I think I may have pingings to go back, but am not doing anything immediate about it. Could be just feelings.

 

[JOL]

I have a friend visiting my home right now, who is a former Catholic who has converted to Judaism.

How does one convert to Judaism? It is a birthright, a nationality, etc. I don’t believe one can convert to Judaism just as an Irish person cannot convert to become Polish.

 

[HashemEchad]

How does one convert to Judaism? It is a birthright, a nationality, etc. I don’t believe one can convert to Judaism just as an Irish person cannot convert to become Polish.

Anyone can convert to Judaism, its just that while Judaism does accept converts, we do not go out looking for them (we do not try to convert other people.)

It seems these days as if there are more and more people looking to convert to Judaism. I was puzzled by this at first, but then remembered the prophecy in Zecharaiah: "In that day, ten men will take hold of the clothing of him that is a Jew and say to him, ‘We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you!’

(My mother and husband are both converts themselves, btw).

 

[vocatio]

That’s a beautiful testament of love Vocatio. Sounds like your wife is beautiful inside & out and you have been blessed to perceive it in its entirety. Thank you for sharing that.

I too will welcome the day when we put all the parts of Jesus’s body back together! We need to be one church. That’s what He wanted!

Thank you for your kind words. My wife is beautiful. I still see the young 22 year old I married. She has grown more beautiful with each new day, especially since her conversion to Catholicism.

Yes, I feel strongly towards unification.

 

[vocatio]

I wrote a letter, just never mailed it. I didn’t know this is how one actually, officially, left the Catholic church. I just wrote it because of my hate for the Catholic church. Again though, I am glad I didn’t mail it because I am in a place where I think I may have pingings to go back, but am not doing anything immediate about it. Could be just feelings.

Wonderful news. I’ve heard that even if someone mails in a letter it may be rejected if there is reason to believe someone may return. It’s a bit complicated I guess. But I’m glass I didn’t mail one in. I may have wrote it and something told me not to send it. I used an interpretation from a 1983 document that apparently has been erroneously used to say that a public act is devined as being baptized in a new faith or a marriage in another church…Any public act. But thankfully that was not correct.

What is the foudation of your “hate” for the Catholic Church? Do you know about the Eastern Rites? Many Catholics are quite unaware of the Eastern Church in communion with Rome.

 

[JOL]

Wonderful news. I’ve heard that even if someone mails in a letter it may be rejected if there is reason to believe someone may return. It’s a bit complicated I guess. But I’m glass I didn’t mail one in. I may have wrote it and something told me not to send it. I used an interpretation from a 1983 document that apparently has been erroneously used to say that a public act is devined as being baptized in a new faith or a marriage in another church…Any public act. But thankfully that was not correct.

What is the foudation of your “hate” for the Catholic Church? Do you know about the Eastern Rites? Many Catholics are quite unaware of the Eastern Church in communion with Rome.

I don’t hate the Catholic church, I think I just don’t understand it and because I don’t understand it…it frustrates me. I grew up in the Catholic church yet don’t know much about it. I left it 11 years ago, yet still once every year (at least) get pingings that maybe I should return…and that frustrates me.

Tonight I watched the Journey Home and enjoyed that greatly. Who knows what I am… Catholic or not.

 

[vocatio]

I don’t hate the Catholic church, I think I just don’t understand it and because I don’t understand it…it frustrates me. I grew up in the Catholic church yet don’t know much about it. I left it 11 years ago, yet still once every year (at least) get pingings that maybe I should return…and that frustrates me.

Tonight I watched the Journey Home and enjoyed that greatly. Who knows what I am… Catholic or not.

Watching the Journey Home and listening to Scott Hahn’s CD’s had a major impact on me. In fact, some of Scott’s life sounds like mine. I come from a family of ministers, deacons and elders.

If you don’t mind let me recommend a simple google on these words “ancient Christian documents”. The website www.earlychristianwritings.com/ pops up first. click on “the didache”. Read it. Then read Ignatius of Antioch to the **Smyrnians. **“Saint Ignatius of Antioch (also known as Theophorus) (ca. … He is also responsible for the first known use of the Greek word katholikos (καθολικός),”

The word Eucharist comes from the Greek EUCHARISTEO. Find a copy of the book “The Lambs Supper” by Scott Hahn. This will give you a fundament foundation that should show you about the mass. We beleive goes a long way back. Spending some time watching EWTN will help. Watch the Journey Home. Right after that is a program that usually includes Scott Hahn. There is a rich resource of information online at www.ewtn.org. Take it a little at a time and PLEASE let yourself off the hood. The Church leader admits it made a mistake by not properly providing sound Catholic educaiton for us. i was one of them, even thoug I went to the seminary. In fact, many priests do not know how to handle apologetics. That’s changing now. This website is great too. But read some real resources. People are predictable. They’ll lead you astray everytime. Maybe a little over stated but to make a point.