Former Catholics...

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Hi

I’m a former RC that converted to Holy Orthodoxy back in Jan. 7, 2001. I’ve never ever though of sending a letter to RC Bishop just to say that I was leaving.

I did renounce my former Catholic faith in a Orthodox Church in front of an Orthodox Priest and many others. I feel that I have made my point and felt that no letter is needed.

In this chatroom someone said that they didn’t send a letter so that they could be buried in a RC Cemetery. I have plot at a RC Cemetery and never told the woman at the Cemetery I was a former Catholic. I told her that I was Orthodox Christian and did she have a problem with that and that she had better say now before I put money down to buy the plot. My wife is Jewish so she is not a RC also.

The woman that sold the plot to us said that the Catholic Cemetery could not under Massachusetts State law discrimate concerning non-Catholic being buried. If the RC Cemetery decides later it should have not let me be laid to rest there, I have the recourse to go forward with lawsuit on Civil Right violation Massachusetts State law. The RC would loss the case and I still would win.

The Cross that will appear on my stone will be a Russian Orthodox Cross. Also for anyone that may have a question on non-Catholic being buried in Mass. A Jewish woman was buried and on her stone is a Star of David. The RC tried to stop her and were unable because she file a lawsuit and won.

Now I know that one would have to write a letter to “officially” become excommunicated from the Latin Church. I get on that letter soon.

I will chat more on why I left in my next chat

Have a great day.
 
Hello Frank,

I had to research this issue very recently, actually, to try to assist a woman I am helping who came to our exit counseling workers.

(By way of explanation: I am a volunteer worker with a Jewish exit counseling group. What we do is assist in any way we need to, Jews seeking to return to Judaism after having been involved in other religions. We also assist Gentiles wanting to convert to Judaism, as the need arises.)

Recently, we had a woman come to us who was born/raised an agnostic Jew, had converted to Roman Catholicism as a young adult, and now wanted to return to Judaism.

Her question for us was: She owned a plot in an Archdiocesan cemetery, that she’d bought as a Catholic. Normally she would just sell it, but a baby she lost is buried there and there is also a stone on the grave.

She is worried that if she notifies the Catholic church that she has left to return to Judaism, that they will take the gravesite away and she will lose the grave of her baby.

I did some research for her (she was afraid to call herself because she did not want them to know who she was)…evidently the OWNER of the plot must be Catholic, but anyonje can be buried in it, even if they are not Catholic.

This doesn’t solve her problem of course, but it might solve it for anyone else who might choose to leave the church but is able to put the plot into the name of as Catholic family member or friend.

I suggested to this lady that she do what she wants to re: returning to Judaism, and just not inform the church she has left. I advised her to keep her baptismal certificate in case a question ever arises (I can’t see how it could, since she is not planning now to be buried there.)
 
Hi HashemEchad,

Thank you for Chat and hope all turns out well for the woman you’re helping out. Try call the State Attorney General Office and see if she has legal recourse in law so that the Catholic can’t kick her out on the plot.

Mass State Attorney General Office would be the best start if she is a perosn that lives in this State.

I’m not kidding when I say I would file laws suit with the State.

Your best move would be to call State Attorney General Office and see what are the laws and how they can work for her. She has rights and the laws of this country behide her.

I will say more on my reasons on why I left the RC Church.

Have a great day.
 
Hi HashemEchad,

I’m going to contact the Mass State Attorney General Office to get chapter in the law that protect me as a person.

I will send a answer on what they say to me.

Good luck on you good fight on her behalf.

Have a great day.
 
Hi HashemEchad,

I’m going to contact the Mass State Attorney General Office to get chapter in the law that protect me as a person.

I will send a answer on what they say to me.

Good luck on you good fight on her behalf.

Have a great day.
The woman in question lives in PA…I think her concern is not the plot itself, because if the baby were not buried there (I found out), she would be able to just sell it back to the Archdiocese.

Her worry is that if she is no longer seen as a Catholic by the Archdiocese (her reason for not wanting to send a letter as some here have suggested ex-Catholics do), they might say she no longer has a right to the plot, even though her baby is buried in it. And she does not want to possibly have to go through the expense of disinterring the baby to be re-buried elsewhere.

I did tell her that IF the church did try to force her to move the baby’s remains, it would look pretty awful to the public (say, if she went to the media with it), due to the church’s pro-life stance and praise of children. KWIM?
 
Hi HashemEchad,

You’re very kind to the woman that you’re helping. I not up to what the laws of her state are. I not sure if you have contacted law in her state, but that may be a good recourse in order to protect herself. The law is there for her protection.

You’re right on if she was to sell the plot it would have to be to the
Archdiocese.

Thank you for your statements and will tell you how the State of Mass handles it. I just tried to call the office and it was closed for today so I will have to wait to see later on what they say to me.

Have a great day.
 
That’s a pickle. If they don’t allow me to be burried in a place where I’ve already paid, I’d definitily contact the Stat Attorney’s Office. I mean can you imagine that? I’d spend every hour of every waken day on the case until I get my dying wish…😉

Yea. I know, but you’re dead already.

I can see why this lady would not want to turn in the letter.

Here’s a question that is relevant to disuss laater on another thread. If converts revert ot what they were in before, then what were they thinking when they converted to Catholicism? I find this deeply sad. People want to marry someone so bad they blow off the beleif they’re convicted to growing up. It’s not like the Church backs you in a corner and yells at you “repent, repent, the kingdom of God is at hand” We were told that if you have doubts or do not believe, then PLEASE do not convert.
 
I was raised Catholic, was very turned off by Vatican II changes, and, since I had been interested in Eastern Orthodoxy since about age 10-12, I converted to Orthodoxy in 1985. I was baptised, and renounced the heresies of Rome. I did not write to a Catholic Bishop to “inform” him of my conversion to Orthodoxy as all I was worried about at the time was converting to Christ’s True Church, and had no concern whatsoever about whether or not the Archdiocese of Cincinnati still considered me a Catholic or not. I must say, in my experience, I would think the Archdiocese of Cincinnati especially would consider me no longer a Catholic as soon as they figured the Sunday Money envelopes were no longer coming in! All I know is they dont send me those anymore!
 
I was raised Catholic, was very turned off by Vatican II changes, and, since I had been interested in Eastern Orthodoxy since about age 10-12, I converted to Orthodoxy in 1985. I was baptised, and renounced the heresies of Rome. I did not write to a Catholic Bishop to “inform” him of my conversion to Orthodoxy as all I was worried about at the time was converting to Christ’s True Church, and had no concern whatsoever about whether or not the Archdiocese of Cincinnati still considered me a Catholic or not. I must say, in my experience, I would think the Archdiocese of Cincinnati especially would consider me no longer a Catholic as soon as they figured the Sunday Money envelopes were no longer coming in! All I know is they dont send me those anymore!
I doubt it had anything to do with sending back those envelopes. As a former Roman Catholic I know for the most part only your grandma does anything like that. 😉 By ‘your grandma’ I mean my grandma, God rest her soul. :byzsoc: I don’t mean that as a disparaging remark about the Roman Catholic Church… just that your not tithing probably wasn’t even noticed.
 
Hi A Sombra and Nicholas82

I like to say right on both of you

I to also renounced the heresies of Rome to my priest.

My story seems be close to what A Sombra in his chat

Look forward to hearing more from you two
 
that is funny. all the stories in this tread reminds of the passages in the Bible when many left Jesus for they did not like what they heard.

***“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ***
 
I from Massachusetts and I seen the message the Catholic has been sending out, that is the problem.

Hey remember I had Fr Potter and Fr. Gagen as next door neighbor at the State Police Station next door went they were there.
 
Hello Frank,

I had to research this issue very recently, actually, to try to assist a woman I am helping who came to our exit counseling workers.

(By way of explanation: I am a volunteer worker with a Jewish exit counseling group. What we do is assist in any way we need to, Jews seeking to return to Judaism after having been involved in other religions. We also assist Gentiles wanting to convert to Judaism, as the need arises.)

Recently, we had a woman come to us who was born/raised an agnostic Jew, had converted to Roman Catholicism as a young adult, and now wanted to return to Judaism.

Her question for us was: She owned a plot in an Archdiocesan cemetery, that she’d bought as a Catholic. Normally she would just sell it, but a baby she lost is buried there and there is also a stone on the grave.

She is worried that if she notifies the Catholic church that she has left to return to Judaism, that they will take the gravesite away and she will lose the grave of her baby.

I did some research for her (she was afraid to call herself because she did not want them to know who she was)…evidently the OWNER of the plot must be Catholic, but anyonje can be buried in it, even if they are not Catholic.

This doesn’t solve her problem of course, but it might solve it for anyone else who might choose to leave the church but is able to put the plot into the name of as Catholic family member or friend.

I suggested to this lady that she do what she wants to re: returning to Judaism, and just not inform the church she has left. I advised her to keep her baptismal certificate in case a question ever arises (I can’t see how it could, since she is not planning now to be buried there.)
Do you really think that the CC has all this time to be monitoring all catholics who leave the Church. are you kidding me?

how many people have left? she would have to stop mass and everything else just to pursue those who left.

Please! that is nonsense. the CC has obligated noone to stay or even give them a hard for leaving.

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D…
 
Do you really think that the CC has all this time to be monitoring all catholics who leave the Church. are you kidding me?

how many people have left? she would have to stop mass and everything else just to pursue those who left.

Please! that is nonsense. the CC has obligated noone to stay or even give them a hard for leaving.

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D…
I think perhaps too many get their information from Jack Chick tracts that claim the Vatican keeps a master list of all non-Catholics.If you leave the Church you dont have to send a letter-if you did send a latter the diocese , at the most, would stick it in a file with similar letters. When you get buried in a Catholic Cemetery all they check on is if you own the plot.
 
Do you really think that the CC has all this time to be monitoring all catholics who leave the Church. are you kidding me?

how many people have left? she would have to stop mass and everything else just to pursue those who left.

Please! that is nonsense. the CC has obligated noone to stay or even give them a hard for leaving.

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D…
I’ve kept under the radar for some 5-6 months. :cool:
 
I’ve kept under the radar for some 5-6 months. :cool:
Better hang low for a while, I hear that the elite fighting force, Opus Dei ,is scouring for more fallen away Catholics. If they catch you they’ll hand you over to the to most villanous assasins known to mankind…the Jesuits. That’s assuming the Pro-Lifer’s don’t beat you with their rosaries first.

Another Jack Chick tract anyone?
 
Better hang low for a while, I hear that the elite fighting force, Opus Dei ,is scouring for more fallen away Catholics. If they catch you they’ll hand you over to the to most villanous assasins known to mankind…the Jesuits. That’s assuming the Pro-Lifer’s don’t beat you with their rosaries first.

Another Jack Chick tract anyone?
Wow, and here I thought Orthodox Christians were pro-lifers too… I would have to guess Madaglen could just whack them back with a chotki. :confused: Yea, Orthodox Christians don’t read Jack Chick tracts either, those come from Rome’s illigitimate children. :rolleyes:
 
Wow, and here I thought Orthodox Christians were pro-lifers too… I would have to guess Madaglen could just whack them back with a chotki. :confused: Yea, Orthodox Christians don’t read Jack Chick tracts either, those come from Rome’s illigitimate children. :rolleyes:
I didn’t realize Madaglen is practicing Eastern Orthodox. I was just playing around with the “under the radar”. I thought she was being silly. So I just thought I’d play around.

But I guess you mean fallen away Catholics to be “illigitimate” Catholics. You know, some of the strongest anti-Catholics are not only fallen away Catholics, but also anti-Catholic Protestants that convert to Orthodox. There has been a major increase.

I will elaborate in a bit.

PAX
 
My view of Orthodox and Catholic conflict is mainly cultural hatred…resentment that is rooted in “violating” or going against [for lack of a better way to say it at the moment] the Lord’s Prayer. Foregive me and I forgive others. That needs to be kept close to the heart. I don’t care if you pray the rosary or the Jesus Prayer with the chikoti [mine fell off my hand and lost it:( ]. If Orhtodox are like me an sencerely desire unity as all Christians should, then we particularly need to be nice. I think you thought I knew she was Orhtodox. Going to Orthodoxy is not bad when compared to going to a Protesant anti-Catholic faith. However, if you’re running from Catholicism because you don’t like the "control’, then you’re running in the wrong direction. If allowed I will post an email from an Orthodox priest that wrote me. I think he still considered me Catholic when I was clearly Protestant at the time in my conscience. I was on the Orhtodox side of the fense but didn’t understand the terminologies. How ignorant can we be? I lived a devoutly Christian only life because the confusion was so great with everyone claiming primacy so to speak by saying we’re the right church…I saw that as my team is better than your team. So when I learned of the Church of Christ and how they believed the way I believe [only realizing this was planted in my head at 9 years old visiting a COC that mom dropped us off at] even though I was Catholic, I was easy prey for them. Getting hold of me as a young child made it easier for them to Proselytize me into believing some of those Jack Chick lies. I was raised in a predominantly Catholic area. But mom was anti-Catholic Protestant that didn’t attend church herself. So we were easy target. My olde brother went through one on one classes with our priest for first communion. I recieved first communion at 14 almost 15. My brother was 16, almost 17. He dropped out early…long story that explains why I never was catechized properly. I didn’t get confirmed until I was 17, almost 18. The 60’s & 70’s was a very bad time in the Church right after Vatican Council II. Dissent was everywhere. And everybody became confused. But there has been a steady move since the later 80’s I’d say, mostly the 90’s to reverse things. Many Catholics are angry at the Church leadership. They are throwing temper tantrums like children to make their point. I’m not judging them, just pointing it out. I left because my conscience was mostly Protestant and when I ran across a situation that said opposite of what I expected. I discovered from reading books that what the Church teaches was differnt from what church officials were teaching me. I learned more Protestant teachings and since most of my family was Protestant I was deeply disturbed and truly believed I was actually not really Catholic…How could I be? And what I was learning about it I thought was heresy and I truly believed that they CAtholic Church was the Whore of Babylon…sad, I know. But that is what happens to a society bombarded with lies and false witnesses about the Catholic Church. It didn’t take long for me to realize that Protestant faiths have exactly the same problems. Only the ones who stay are typically related to someone running the Church and really seem to be in it for noteriety or popularity or really POWER… I’ve been through too many elders meetings to manipulate us with their hypocriticaly judgements against us…we we right. They were wrong. The last meeting convinced me that the Church of Christ was NOT the one true Church founded by Christ. SO that put me on a journey that ultimately lead me to Orhtodoxy and ending up Catholic. That last part is much to detailed to discuss for me. I wont’ argue the differences because I believe their is a misunderstanding of what the Orthodox view in comparison to Catholic teaching. We are basically the same. Our hierachy just stops at a different level. And the Orhtodox have move the primacy of Rome to a different location. The filioque clause is really a minute point that is more scrupulous than anything else in my personal view. No offense meant guys. Take it somewhere else…a new thread please. I just want you to know that my heart is Orthodox… But I left the one holy catholic and apostolic church once, I’m way to afraid to move now… I have to know before I move anywhere. But I’ve learned so much now that I can help but believe now. It just makes sense to me now.
 
an update!

I’ve been thinking over the whole “letter” issue, and got to wondering, in the eyes of the church, if it made any difference if one sent an official letter or not. So I called up Open Line with Colin Donovan to find out.

Apparently if one simply falls away, retains the beliefs but stops practicing, they are just a confession away. If one has heretical beliefs or is apostate, they have excommunicated themselves.

If one has excommunicated oneself by their beliefs or lack thereof, then to come back, they must also go to confession, but may have to see a bishop, it may be beyond the purloin of the parish priest to simply absolve them and welcome them home.

If one has sent a letter, then one should go to the bishop of the diocese and say one is rescinding the letter and embracing the faith. One may be asked to show true repentance and acceptance of the Catholic faith before absolution is given the excommunication is considered lifted.

So, it seem that the letter does not automatically make a material difference, and that one can effectively excommunicate oneself even without a letter, and still require the approval of the bishop to return, but if one has sent a letter then definitely the bishop will need to be contacted.

Just thought I’d share what I’d learned
 
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