Former Catholics...

[Greg27]

I think in terms of one’s faith, one is always fundamentally challenged at some point, and one has to ask if what one treasures or believes is actually true.

Descartes, a great philosopher I strongly admire, faced this crisis himself and borrowed the acidic skepticism of the ancient school of Philosophers who developed very insightful arguments against traditional arguments used to defend key philosophical ideas taken to be true, to clean his conciousness of false and deluded beliefs.

At the end of this process, Descartes claimed he found God, innate ideas, and the immortal human soul.

Other people examined these claims and strongly contested them, then and now.

In the sphere of religious faith, of any religion, there is the quest for Transcendence. Transcendence and the path to it is formulated in different terms, concepts and dogmas, and many people then absolutise these dogmas. We see this in every variety of fundamentalism.

Healthy religion on the other hand, uses concepts and symbols as doors which open us up to Transcendence, which in the Christian religion is the saving grace and love of God revealed in the Gospels in Jesus.

For me, I adhere to this faith, but I don’t believe in making the sacrifice of intellect or conscience in order to have this faith. The Catholic Church at its best fosters a harmony of faith and reason, reason and emotion, but like any other branch of Christianity or religion at its worst, can turn into a form of unquestioning belief which is never critically examined. It doesn’t matter what denomination or religion you are, but religion should never involve a sacrifice of the intellect, a compromise of one’s own personal integrity, or a sacrifice of one’s moral conscience merely to believe. An atheist or agnostic in my view is better being consistent and true to themselves and their beliefs, as is the theist, rather than either sacrificing what makes them truely human (reason) for some selfish motive.

No belief as Kant argued, should be above the tribunal of our own reason, but at the same time we should recognise the limits of our intellects and reason for probing the ultimate mysteries of existence; God, the universe as an infinite whole, and our own mysterious selves. To what we know there is most likely an infinite region of what we don’t know, which is probably why Newton said he was only standing before an ocean of truth upon the shoulders of giants, and Einstein still regarded the fact the universe was comprehensible by beautiful intelligible mathematical laws as itself a mystery of sorts. So it is with philosophy and religion at their best; both have an open, humble approach to reality, where the more one becomes a master of learning (doctora) the more one realises the less one truely knows (ignorata). So the best knowledge for me, in religion and any other field, following Nicholas of Cusa’s argument, is the highest knowledge is knowledge of what we don’t know, which is always far more than what we do know. Our intellects can’t encompass the unencompassable Absolute, so we should not claim our knowledge of this reality is final, exhaustive and absolute.

So any Christian, while they may want to share the joy of their faith or be concerned at the salvation of others, should also keep in mind the mystery of God is far beyond our complete and final comprehension, and we should not in arrogant pride presume we stand in place of God, knowing the thoughts and ways of the Absolute as we comprehend our own. Catholics who adopt this attitude, wherever they come from, have my respect, as well as it is exercised along with Gospel-based love and compassion for others and for justice, regardless of my own views on religion and theology.

 

[cheddarsox]

I think in terms of one’s faith, one is always fundamentally challenged at some point, and one has to ask if what one treasures or believes is actually true.

For me, I adhere to this faith, but I don’t believe in making the sacrifice of intellect or conscience in order to have this faith. The Catholic Church at its best fosters a harmony of faith and reason, reason and emotion, but like any other branch of Christianity or religion at its worst, can turn into a form of unquestioning belief which is never critically examined. It doesn’t matter what denomination or religion you are, but religion should never involve a sacrifice of the intellect, a compromise of one’s own personal integrity, or a sacrifice of one’s moral conscience merely to believe. An atheist or agnostic in my view is better being consistent and true to themselves and their beliefs, as is the theist, rather than either sacrificing what makes them truely human (reason) for some selfish motive.

What you speak of, speaks very much about where I am, and how I got here.

 

[notself]

Ritual is a big part of being a Catholic. Ritual gives meaning, comfort, structure and focus to belief. That being said, ritual does none of those things for me and has not been part of my spiritual life since I was a child.

When ritual that speaks so much to others becomes empty on a personal level, one begins to question other aspects of faith. I began to question. I talked to priests, read books on Catholicism, read the Bible. Rather than reconfirming my faith, all of these things brought me more questions and eventually ended my faith in a Supreme God that required worship.

For many years I drifted along reading history, anthropology and a bit of psychology. I read bits of physics, boolean algebra as well as traditional logic structure. I very much enjoyed the works of Joseph Campbell and still re-read his books. I found a great deal of wisdom and mystery in the Tao Te Ching.

Then about four years ago I read a book on Buddhism called What the Buddha Taught by Ven. Walpola Rahula. It was as though the sky opened up and the sun came shining through. The deeper I get into my studies of the Pali Canon (the teachings of the Buddha) the more understanding I have; the fewer questions I have; the deeper my practice is. I will always be grateful that I found that book.

For those of you who feel this way about Catholicism, my deep well wishes that you continue to find what you need in your faith. For those who are still looking, I encourage you in your efforts and wish you success in your search.

 

[Hesychios]

Why did you leave the Church? I am curious because I often hear of people that have a bad experience occur in the Church OR in their personal lives then they either get much closer to the Church or they turn away.

What is your story?

I am a former Roman Catholic.

I remember the Latin Tridentine Mass from my youth; I think I may have attended more than 600 of them. I fondly remember my Confirmation, and I was a devout youth. I raised all of my children (now adults) to be Roman Catholics. My father was devout and my mother was also, but in a more subtle way that blossomed as she aged. I buried both of them through the Roman Catholic Church in Catholic cemeteries, just like most of my recent ancestry around Chicago.

After some initial difficulties with the ‘New Mass’ (as it was morphing with all the hand-holding, guitars and drums and such) I accommodated pretty well to the changes and continued to attend Mass for years. I also encouraged my father (while he was alive), who was having a hard time with it, to continue. I know that at times it drove him to despair but I was convinced that there was NO OTHER church and this was what was meant to be! I had a singular reluctance, however, to register with any parish in my later years. I found it to be boring after a while, so I was constantly attending mass in different neighborhoods and suburbs around Chicago. Something was missing and I could not put my finger on it. Even after registering at a parish I could not be expected to show up there every week, and I kept looking for a new parish I could hook into. I also visited the “underground” Latin masses. Eventually the SSPX established itself in Oak park, and the Archdiocese countered with an indult at St John Cantius. But these were not satisfactory to me anymore, I had become too accustomed to the more participatory style of worship in the Novus Ordo, and the idea of watching the beetleback move from end to end of the altar praying in a language I did not comprehend finally became objectionable to me. I suppose I would have approved of it if the prayers had been in English.

Eventually I felt the need for a deeper spirituality and a stronger prayer life, and I picked up on the LOTH, enlisting the help of an old retired priest friend to get started. The regular cycle of prayers, tied into the calendar, was very helpful and even enlightening! I also purchased and used father Carroll Stuhlmuellers meditations for a couple of years. They are actually excellent. amazon.com/Biblical-Meditations-Easter-Carroll-Stuhlmueller/dp/0809122839

One of my favorite books was “The Lord” by father Romano Guardini. Another regular reading was the “Imitation of Christ” by Thomas a’ Kempis. I still have both in my personal library.

I became an Oblate candidate at the local Benedictine monastery. I suppose at this point I should mention that I had read an account of the proceedings of Vatican Council I, it was quite a shock to me. I also first became aware of Old Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy, in a more significant way. I have to confess an interest in both from this point on.

I was also interested in reading Patristics, and apologetics. I bought a lot of material from St Joseph Communications and all of the pamphlets from Catholic Answers sold by them at the time (I still have the bundles). I was a very proud and happy Novus Ordo Catholic, I buried my private mental reservations in a sea of argument.

For years I had a vague awareness of the Eastern Catholic Churches, and my Patristic reading only increased my interest and curiosity. Knowing that these derived from Orthodox roots impressed me, and the fact that the Uniates chose Rome over schism helped me put to rest some creeping doubts over the role of the Pope and ‘universal’ jurisdiction. So I began to make “pilgrimages” (as I called them) the various Eastern rite churches around Chicago.

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[Hesychios]

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I visited the Ukrainians, Ruthenians, Maronites and Melkites. I found myself being drawn inexplicably to the liturgy and spirituality of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholics, and returned again so often that the priest did not realize I was not registered as a parishioner (something that would not surprise me in a Latin parish, but in these the priest can know everyone by first name). I eventually decided that I would join them officially, what a joy! I was overwhelmed by the glorious liturgy and the close friendships I formed there. This was something I had forgotten was possible in a Catholic church.

In a small parish like that one it is impossible to remain anonymous, so let that be a warning to anyone (like me, actually) who has grown comfortable slipping into and out of a parish building that can hold 1000 at a time, while no one asks your name and no one misses you when you have gone. I really got sucked in…I joined the choir, I helped organize the evangelization committee, and I donated money for icons and other projects. My weekly contribution quadrupled over what I normally gave at the Latin Parishes. I…was…inspired.

I also began reading a great deal of material on my newfound Byzantine spirituality. Mind you, there is not much from Catholic sources, but it is pretty good. Archbishop Joseph Raya wrote an excellent treatise called “The Face of God”. Our pastor was giving these out, but I had already bought one before I realized that. The deacon recommended that I read “The Orthodox Way” by bishop Kallistos Ware (an Orthodox bishop), this surprised me but I read it and was pleased that it was not very polemical and biased against Catholicism. A good friend of mind recommended books by father Kasimir Kucharek and father Tomas Cardinal Spidlik (he was not yet a cardinal when he wrote the books).

I was beginning to grasp the depth, and brilliant simplicity, of Byzantine theology and spirituality. It was transformational. I ultimately discarded my old outlook and Latin predispositions.

I volunteered for * everything *: I went on long road trips with the choir (we paid our own way), I showed up on Saturday mornings to pull weeds on my hands and knees, I passed out literature and talked up the church to everyone I met, including my barber and my doctor. I really loved it there, and still consider those people to be my friends!

I was very involved (as Gandalf had said to Frodo). I found out a bit about how far I had come when we had a tour group visit the parish for a liturgy and I spoke to some of them, explaining that I was a Latin Catholic member of the parish. Some of them were quite shocked and one actually wept tears. I asked her why but these were not ‘tears of joy’ but actually sorrow “that I had abandoned the church of my fathers”. All of my arguments to the contrary were of no use with her, I was no longer a ‘real Catholic’ in her eyes.

On another occasion, I approached a woman wearing a mantilla pacing outside of the temple, and I approached her to thank her for visiting us and invite her back. She scowled “Now I have to find a real church to take communion” … “ I drove a long way to get here and now it’s late and I won’t be able to take communion!” I said “why didn’t you take communion here?..You should have” She shouted “Because you are heretics only pretending to be Catholic” “I thought that this was a real Catholic church!” “But it is!” I said.

Then “you don’t kneel for the consecration, I was shocked that in the missal I saw torn out of the top of the page where it had said [KNEEL], and nobody knelt! And you don’t recite the filioque! In my book it was scratched out and you did not say it!” “Don’t you realize that there was a great rebellion in the church over that??” “The Orthodox don’t accept the filioque and that is why they were excommunicated!”

I said “we are allowed to not say the filioque, the Vatican gave us permission to say the Creed the old way, it is part of our TRADITION”. “That’s what the other guy said” (there had been a nother parishioner who spoke to here before I did, another enthusiastic convert). Finally she said “and who coached you all in how to say all that…THAT PRIEST?” and I replied “we are a real Catholic church, this is part of our Tradition! and “We even have a picture of our priest kneeling for a blessing from the Pope!” and she said any tourist can get a picture like that, and we probably put it up there to confuse innocent Catholic people and entrap them. “You have insulted the holy Church and all of us here, but I forgive you. Go find another church for communion if you must but pray on it.”

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[Hesychios]

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She was partly right, of course. Whether I recited the filioque or not the church still required me to believe it, this was something that was not clear in my mind at the time. So I think at this point I began to ponder over this theology of ours. Why was it so important for us not to recite the filioque if we still had to believe it? What consolation to us is implied by this concession from Rome? Am I allowed to pretend that I do not believe the filioque? If I don’t believe the filioque am I pretending that I do? The answer to that is clearly spelled out in Allatae Sunt, a Papal Encyclical from almost modern times, the late eighteenth century.

So now I had another mental reservation, they were piling up in the back of the garage of my mind!

Eventually though, the church made the BIG appeal: consider a vocation! Yes, I considered a vocation to the diaconate. I prayed on it…I became anxious…I lost some sleep. I had friends in the parish on the same path and we encouraged each other, I felt a strong urgency in the calling.

In the process I had to confront my conscience, for not the first time, but head on.

Could I?

Should I?

I decided that in good conscience I could not pursue a vocation in a church when I could not defend all of it’s teachings with 100% of my will and no reservations. I had no tolerance of the concept of cafeteria Catholicism, especially among the clergy and I knew that if I followed this line of thought it could eventually force me right out of this church I love. I had tried to conform my beliefs to the official teaching of the church for most of my adult life to no avail, but I discovered that I was in fact, in complete agreement with the Orthodox Communion of churches which I had summarily dismissed years before! True, they were not in communion with Rome…the barque of Peter…and I was very sad because of it. For I still valued a connection with the Holy See and I thought (as an Eastern Catholic) that a difference of theology did not mean one needed to be out of communion with Rome, the linchpin of the Holy Church (I still saw it as somehow preferable). Didn’t Christ pray we all be ONE? What does being one in Christ mean, anyway? I did not take communion for two solid years as I turned this over in my mind.

In the meantime I studied again the acts of the Vatican Council I of 1870AD. This council is famous not only for proclaiming Papal Infallibility but for declaring Papal universal jurisdiction in the church. Now I believe the church is indeed infallible, I don’t know how anyone can be a Christian and not. If I knew that the Pope (or I suppose, any one human creature) had universal jurisdiction I think I could bend the infallibility of the church around that. Thus the infallibility of the church would naturally reside primarily in the one person who has responsibility for it all here.

But I don’t believe in universal jurisdiction of the Pope. I have looked for it, and cannot find it. I have tried to believe it, but I am always unconvinced. The evidence is not at all clear and I have been looking for it for a long, long time. I have had to admit to myself that I ultimately cannot even force myself to believe the dogma, and I am not even sorry about that, so I can’t just confess it and relieve myself of the burden. Believing in Papal Universal Jurisdiction for me would be like believing the world is flat (or in the center of the Solar System). The Vatican Council of 1870 very clearly stated that if any dispute the doctrine, they are excommunicated latae sententiae. They were talking about me! That sentence was composed specifically for me and other Catholics like me.

After a long period of investigation, I determined that the Orthodox church and the Roman Catholic church share so much in common that they seem to validate and confirm each other from a third perspective. Everything they share comes from the ancient roots of the church, whatever significant theological differences they have between them must have come about later, after the Apostolic and Patristic period of church existence, which they share. I also discovered that the Roman church will unabashedly tell you when each new idea or practice first became current in the western church. The Roman church is indeed proud of these developments (many coming right out of the Scholastic era after the Gregorian Reformation), while the Orthodox church is generally appalled by them.

More prayers…

After a long, and sometimes painful odyssey, I cast my lot with the Orthodox church, and I was delightedly Chrismated December 24th, 2005 at the tender young age of fifty-one years.

Michael Jarzab

 

[Nella]

Why did you leave the Church? I am curious because I often hear of people that have a bad experience occur in the Church OR in their personal lives then they either get much closer to the Church or they turn away.

What is your story?

I left a few years ago because of the knowledge I gained about the church that I had been a part of since birth. The more I searched for the truth in the Catholic church, the more I realized that the teachings, doctrine and dogma of the Catholic church didn’t square with truth. I was very troubled by this for months. I tried with everything I knew and had. I attended mass every Sunday, I observed all holy days of obligation, I went to Eucharistic adoration many times per year, I went to confession once a month at least and I attended masses during the week often. I also studied the faith intensely with my priest for months. In spite of all this, I continued to feel dead in the spirit. When I finally left the church for the Anglican church, I realized that I was just going through the motions for years. I learned how to build a personal relationship with Christ without guilt and with the belief that he had ALREADY atoned for my sins. I could move forward and accept his love and grace. I learned that God doesn’t punish us for our sins. He may allow circumstances to work on us to show us our shortcomings but he does not make adverse things happen to us. I have learned much about God’s love for us in a much more focused light and I only wish that others could experience what I have. I do believe that most Catholics are good people in search of the truth, but I would wish for them that they would realize that God does operate outside of the Catholic church. It wasn’t until I realized this that I became content with God’s love and compassion.

 

[Delraek]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that most ex-catholics leave the Church because they don’t “feel” something! I would think just having the understanding of what is actually happening at Mass, especially during the consecration, would be enough. Maybe I’ve been blessed to have the realization that emotions do not have to dictate our lives - even our spiritual lives. Isn’t that why many people get caught up in cults? Instead of using their intellect that God gave them, they want to feel welcomed or needed or loved by the other members of the community.

I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice to have some kind of private revelation once in a while (or some sensation that I could attribute to the Holy Spriit), but I know that God wants me to persevere even in the absence of any special feeling or personal revelation. How do I know that? Sacred Scripture and Church teaching.

Just my :twocents:

 

[Maria1212]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that most ex-catholics leave the Church because they don’t “feel” something! I would think just having the understanding of what is actually happening at Mass, especially during the consecration, would be enough. Maybe I’ve been blessed to have the realization that emotions do not have to dictate our lives - even our spiritual lives. Isn’t that why many people get caught up in cults? Instead of using their intellect that God gave them, they want to feel welcomed or needed or loved by the other members of the community.

I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice to have some kind of private revelation once in a while (or some sensation that I could attribute to the Holy Spriit), but I know that God wants me to persevere even in the absence of any special feeling or personal revelation. How do I know that? Sacred Scripture and Church teaching.

Just my :twocents:

You make an excellent point. We don`t worship God to get filled with “warm fuzzies.” We worship God to worship Him.

I think one reason people leave is because they do not wish to submit their will and personal preferences to the teachings of the Church. Contraception is one example of this. People rationalize that it is okay, and migrate to a church that won`t make them feel bad about this. I have noticed this with many of my friends who left the church in college etc They left because they did not want to feel guilty for choosing sin.

I think there is a level of arrogance when people decide they know better then the Church God started.

Many people who leave the Church eventually find their way home. We need to pray for our brothers and sisters who have strayed, or been deceived.

I know people find God outside the Catholic Church, but I want them to have the whole truth, not just a tiny sliver.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[MarcoPolo]

There were simply too many Catholic teachings that were not consistent with scripture.

Hi Priscilla…could you share one of the teachings with which you believe the Catholic Church is inconsistent with Scripture?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Bold added by me…

I left a few years ago because of the knowledge I gained about the church that I had been a part of since birth. The more I searched for the truth in the Catholic church, the more I realized that the teachings, doctrine and dogma of the Catholic church didn’t square with truth. I was very troubled by this for months. I tried with everything I knew and had. I attended mass every Sunday, I observed all holy days of obligation, I went to Eucharistic adoration many times per year, I went to confession once a month at least and I attended masses during the week often. I also studied the faith intensely with my priest for months. In spite of all this, I continued to feel dead in the spirit. When I finally left the church for the Anglican church, I realized that I was just going through the motions for years. I learned how to build a personal relationship with Christ without guilt and with the belief that he had ALREADY atoned for my sins. I could move forward and accept his love and grace. I learned that God doesn’t punish us for our sins. He may allow circumstances to work on us to show us our shortcomings but he does not make adverse things happen to us. I have learned much about God’s love for us in a much more focused light and I only wish that others could experience what I have. I do believe that most Catholics are good people in search of the truth, but I would wish for them that they would realize that God does operate outside of the Catholic church. It wasn’t until I realized this that I became content with God’s love and compassion.

Hi Nella…without seeing specifics here, and highlighting the pattern in bold above…it sounds like you left because of personal feelings. Have you considered this (even hypothetically if you will) that if Christ is truly present in the Eucharist only in the Catholic Church, and you “still felt dead in the spirit”, that perhaps the lack of spirit was on your end? It just sounds like you are measuring the truth of the Sacraments by your personal emotional response to them.

 

[notself]

It is difficult for anyone who has a strong belief system to imagine that others who once shared that belief system no longer do. It must make the believer feel uneasy.

Perhaps the believer can do something to reverse the mind of the non believer. The believer explains the faith.

Perhaps it is the non believer’s fault they don’t believe. The non believer is self indulgent or willful or emotional or ignorant. The belief is explained again with a bit of tension in the voice of the believer. Or, the non believer is dismissed.

Perhaps the believer is the one who is mistaken in their faith. In this case the believer of little faith criticizes the non believer as a defense mechanism.

Perhaps each person is different and each person needs to find his or her own path. Of course this is against the teachings of the believer’s church, so it is dismissed out of hand.

 

[Maria1212]

It is difficult for anyone who has a strong belief system to imagine that others who once shared that belief system no longer do. It must make the believer feel uneasy.

Perhaps the believer can do something to reverse the mind of the non believer. The believer explains the faith.

Perhaps it is the non believer’s fault they don’t believe. The non believer is self indulgent or willful or emotional or ignorant. The belief is explained again with a bit of tension in the voice of the believer. Or, the non believer is dismissed.

Perhaps the believer is the one who is mistaken in their faith. In this case the believer of little faith criticizes the non believer as a defense mechanism.

Perhaps each person is different and each person needs to find his or her own path. Of course this is against the teachings of the believer’s church, so it is dismissed out of hand.

Actually, and I can only speak for myself, I do not feel uneasy at all with former Catholics. I find that many who leave the Catholic Church, did not have a full, or often accurate understanding of the Churchs teachings. But even if one chooses to reject the Church that Jesus founded, I dont feel uneasy. Catholicism is more than a belief system, it is a faith. One can try to believe all they want, but without the gift of faith, they will not be able too.

Christ wants us to choose to love Him and His Church. He does not force this. If someone chooses to leave the Catholicism for something more diluted, that is their decision. If someone does not believe in Catholicism, they should not stay in the Church.

The people I feel sad for are the ones who leave because they are angry with God, or with themselves. I know the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded, and I am grateful for the gift of faith and for the wisdom to recognize this. If people make a different choice, I respect their decision, but I may not agree with their logic!

Each of us wiill stand before Jesus on Judgement Day. I am not worried about what others think, and I am smart enough to know I do not determine anyone`s salvation!

I do, however, thank God for being Catholic! It is the best gift He has given me!

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Delraek]

Actually, and I can only speak for myself, I do not feel uneasy at all with former Catholics. I find that many who leave the Catholic Church, did not have a full, or often accurate understanding of the Churchs teachings. But even if one chooses to reject the Church that Jesus founded, I dont feel uneasy. Catholicism is more than a belief system, it is a faith. One can try to believe all they want, but without the gift of faith, they will not be able too.

Christ wants us to choose to love Him and His Church. He does not force this. If someone chooses to leave the Catholicism for something more diluted, that is their decision. If someone does not believe in Catholicism, they should not stay in the Church.

The people I feel sad for are the ones who leave because they are angry with God, or with themselves. I know the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded, and I am grateful for the gift of faith and for the wisdom to recognize this. If people make a different choice, I respect their decision, but I may not agree with their logic!

Each of us wiill stand before Jesus on Judgement Day. I am not worried about what others think, and I am smart enough to know I do not determine anyone`s salvation!

I do, however, thank God for being Catholic! It is the best gift He has given me!

Sincerely,

Maria1212

notself,
If I truly believe that heaven and hell exist and say nothing to people who don’t, then what kind of person would I be, knowing that these people could possibly end up in hell for their choices?

 

[royal]

When I was a young man, the catholic church was not very social and the nuns were strict and the priests not very responsive to the people. I remember no social events at all. And although I attended cathecism, I knew nothing of the mass. So I left in my alienation.

Now the catholic church is different. The parishioners seem more connected if they wish to be. There are events to attend and a community spirit. Much different from the good ol’ days of just attending mass and a trip home. I was 18 years old. But now in my 50’s I have reconnected with my old faith but I would still defend the lds church from biased catholics on this board.

Dear Why me, I have heard that the only reason in reality why a Catholic would leave the church is because of a refusal to receive the sacrament of confession. As a soul defies confession, sin accumulates in the soul until the soul becomes indifferent to the faith and so they leave, insisting there is a fault in the church, when in all reality the fault is in the refusal to confess? Do you agree?

 

[royal]

It is difficult for anyone who has a strong belief system to imagine that others who once shared that belief system no longer do. It must make the believer feel uneasy.

Perhaps the believer can do something to reverse the mind of the non believer. The believer explains the faith.

Perhaps it is the non believer’s fault they don’t believe. The non believer is self indulgent or willful or emotional or ignorant. The belief is explained again with a bit of tension in the voice of the believer. Or, the non believer is dismissed.

Perhaps the believer is the one who is mistaken in their faith. In this case the believer of little faith criticizes the non believer as a defense mechanism.

Dear Notself, I have heard the reason Catholic’s leave the faith is because they refuse confession. As sin accumulates in the soul, they become indifferent to the faith, then leave. In reality they are at fault for refusing confession although they blame or fault the church. What do you think? Royal

Perhaps each person is different and each person needs to find his or her own path. Of course this is against the teachings of the believer’s church, so it is dismissed out of hand.

 

[notself]

…I have heard that the only reason in reality why a Catholic would leave the church is because of a refusal to receive the sacrament of confession. As a soul defies confession, sin accumulates in the soul until the soul becomes indifferent to the faith and so they leave, insisting there is a fault in the church, when in all reality the fault is in the refusal to confess? Do you agree?

I think that when one wrongs another there should be confession to that person and one should ask forgiveness from that person. When one harms oneself, it helps to discuss that harm with a wise person, a teacher, a friend, a spiritual advisor.

I believe that in reflection before an act, one can avoid harm. I believe that in reflection during an act, one can stop harm that has not been avoided. I believe that in reflection after an act, one can learn from one’s mistakes and avoid repeating them.

I believe there are skillful and unskillful intentions, thoughts and actions and by reflection, one can increase the skillful and decrease the unskillful.

Think about this. Don’t you agree?

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Hi Priscilla…could you share one of the teachings with which you believe the Catholic Church is inconsistent with Scripture?

They are too numerous to list here, and would be topics for other threads. (Two that come to mind are the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary…at best, these are theories and cannot be proven from either history or scripture.)

 

[Maria1212]

notself,
If I truly believe that heaven and hell exist and say nothing to people who don’t, then what kind of person would I be, knowing that these people could possibly end up in hell for their choices?

I share my faith with those who are interested, and do not force it upon those who are not. I still pray for them however.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Delraek]

I share my faith with those who are interested, and do not force it upon those who are not. I still pray for them however.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

And if they’re on this forum, we can only conclude that they’re interested or why would they be here, right?