Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Would you care to elaborate? Did the priest actually teach what the CC teaches, or was it his take? I hate to say it, but I have heard (never met) of priests making a spin.
- Status
J
JRKH
Guest
Brian,
This is off topic but –
When quoting multiple, successive passages from from the bible, it is much easier to read if you group them as written then make the reference at the end. When I see a list such as this I am likely to skip it or just skim it. This is because I don’t like to see verse after verse pulled for thither and yon and taken out of context. But as I looked at your post I saw that wasn’t what you had done but it looked that way from all the references for each verse.
Note the item above as an example and see if this form is maybe easier to read:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body…1 COR 15:44
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 COR 15:49-53
Please don’t take this as a criticism, but as a suggestion to better convey the message you are trying to share.
May God Bless your on your Journey
James
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Yes, I agree. When I see a lot of single liner quotes, I brace myself for the out of context attacks. And end up not understanding the wholeness of it.
The natural flow and beauty of the verses are better understood in this way.
Thanks James for helping me put my finger on what bothers me about “verse quoting.”
R
richardwy
Guest
Right.
K
Keikiolu
Guest
That rather begs the question: What is it that you learned that led you away from the Church?
Are you brave enough to handle the responses to your, in our opinion, misunderstandings you call “what you learned”…?
Since you’re here, you opened the door to conversation on this subject,… so, once again, are you as brave (which I think is “yes”) as your presence here would have us believe?
Best to you, and looking forward to your potentially intriguing response.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.
D
Delraek
Guest
I guess I overwhelmingly disagree! Premarital sex (whether young or old!) contributes to our “culture of violence” by contributing to the millions of abortions every year. If we don’t value ourselves and our own children, esp when they are the weakest, how are we going to value any life? Our culture tells us to do whatever feels good and then use violence if necessary to “fix” the problem!
(When it comes to being ridiculously overpaid, what about all the pro-athletes and Hollywood celebrities? Talk about billions of dollars in salaries per year.)
Materialism and greed are prevalent in our culture, but our “culture of death” is, in my opinion, the ultimate offense!
N
notself
Guest
I agree, pro athletes and celebrities are equally over paid and are further proof of our materialistic, greed-ridden society. Greed comes in all forms and putting personal convenience over the life of another is a form of greed. This is egotism and is the worse kind of greed.I guess I overwhelmingly disagree! Premarital sex (whether young or old!) contributes to our “culture of violence” by contributing to the millions of abortions every year. If we don’t value ourselves and our own children, esp when they are the weakest, how are we going to value any life? Our culture tells us to do whatever feels good and then use violence if necessary to “fix” the problem!
(When it comes to being ridiculously overpaid, what about all the pro-athletes and Hollywood celebrities? Talk about billions of dollars in salaries per year.)
Materialism and greed are prevalent in our culture, but our “culture of death” is, in my opinion, the ultimate offense!
“Not In My Back Yard” is a form of greed. Worshipping money at the expense of the environment is greed. Greed is the core value of the Western World. It is a “value” that can destroy everything.
R
richardwy
Guest
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
I am posting the below onto all the threads that I have have been trying to get these people to respond to my questions regarding their posts:
Where are Brian, Nella, Priscilla Ann, Emily_CA, and Brewmaster? They pop up here and there with attacks and inuendos against the “Roman” Church, and then leave, never to engage in discussion. Brosam got banned for using a quote out of context from a poster as his signature, and generally vicious posts. They are all over the Forum making the same claims, but never return to discuss.
I commend Agnos Theist and Notself for engaing in discussion. I have learned a lot from them.
Where are Brian, Nella, Priscilla Ann, Emily_CA, and Brewmaster? They pop up here and there with attacks and inuendos against the “Roman” Church, and then leave, never to engage in discussion. Brosam got banned for using a quote out of context from a poster as his signature, and generally vicious posts. They are all over the Forum making the same claims, but never return to discuss.
I commend Agnos Theist and Notself for engaing in discussion. I have learned a lot from them.
N
notself
Guest
Thank you.I am posting the below onto all the threads that I have have been trying to get these people to respond to my questions regarding their posts:
Where are Brian, Nella, Priscilla Ann, Emily_CA, and Brewmaster? They pop up here and there with attacks and inuendos against the “Roman” Church, and then leave, never to engage in discussion. Brosam got banned for using a quote out of context from a poster as his signature, and generally vicious posts. They are all over the Forum making the same claims, but never return to discuss.
I commend Agnos Theist and Notself for engaing in discussion. I have learned a lot from them.
H
historyb
Guest
I know a lot of Eastern Orthodox who might disagree with you. Yes Christ established a Church, but was it the Catholic Church of today or do the Eastern Orthodox have it right.
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Eastern Orthodox is Catholic, but not united to Rome. Peter’s chair is in Rome, and Eastern Orthodox do not accept that, but they are still Catholic in every other way.
catholic.com/library/eastern_orthodoxy.asp
H
Hesychios
Guest
B
blacktiger057
Guest
I at 10, I started looking around into magick, and two and a half years later descided to become mostly Wiccan. I just didn’t agree with most Christian teachings, and I could not pretend to be Christian and pretend to believe everything. I simply just couldn’t believe. I had to go with what felt right.
The only problem I have with what Christianity says(besides beliefs that make Christians Christian) is that the emphasis on their way being the “one, true way”. I personally believe that this view is rather ignorant and that people need to do what they truly believe in, not what they are sometimes forced to think. In other words, if you truly believe in your Church, then great! But if you are one of those people who do not question anything and accept everything that you are told and have never felt close to God, then you are being forced to think things that you may not agree with somewhere down the line.
Anyways, away from that. I think that the Wiccan deities and the Christion God are one and the same. I just preefer the way Wicca portrays these deities better, and since Wicca’s perspective has helped me come even closer to the Divine Being, I know I made the right descision.
The only problem I have with what Christianity says(besides beliefs that make Christians Christian) is that the emphasis on their way being the “one, true way”. I personally believe that this view is rather ignorant and that people need to do what they truly believe in, not what they are sometimes forced to think. In other words, if you truly believe in your Church, then great!
But if you are one of those people who do not question anything and accept everything that you are told and have never felt close to God, then you are being forced to think things that you may not agree with somewhere down the line.Anyways, away from that. I think that the Wiccan deities and the Christion God are one and the same. I just preefer the way Wicca portrays these deities better, and since Wicca’s perspective has helped me come even closer to the Divine Being, I know I made the right descision.
J
Jordan_Francis
Guest
Blacktiger,
I can appreciate your opinion here. I would agree that if you do not believe what Christianity teaches it is better to not label oneself as Christian for merely cultural or social purposes. We need to be honest to ourselves.
However, my problem with Wicca (besides its “doctrines” which I do not find compelling) is that so many Wiccans portray their religion as if it were an actual ancient tradition that has been in hiding since the Christians “persecuted it” at the advent of the Constantinian period. I do not have an explicit problem with Wicca so long as it understands itself to be a relatively new (c. 1950’s) and ecclectic way of looking at the world. If a Wiccan takes this position, I can see him/her as intellectually honest and not as a reactionary against Christianity (as many WIccans seem to be in my experience).
I can appreciate your opinion here. I would agree that if you do not believe what Christianity teaches it is better to not label oneself as Christian for merely cultural or social purposes. We need to be honest to ourselves.
However, my problem with Wicca (besides its “doctrines” which I do not find compelling) is that so many Wiccans portray their religion as if it were an actual ancient tradition that has been in hiding since the Christians “persecuted it” at the advent of the Constantinian period. I do not have an explicit problem with Wicca so long as it understands itself to be a relatively new (c. 1950’s) and ecclectic way of looking at the world. If a Wiccan takes this position, I can see him/her as intellectually honest and not as a reactionary against Christianity (as many WIccans seem to be in my experience).
B
blacktiger057
Guest
Well, some Wiccans certainly do take the position you mentioned above. I’m not one of them. I find it ridiculous. Unfortunately, many ‘newbies’ to the religion may willingly believe the claim that Wicca is ancient because 1. It is a compelling idea and 2. One of the Egyptologists that may have influenced parts of WIcca, Margaret Murray, had a theory that Wicca went underground when Christianity came and has survived ever since. This is proved to be false, but if a newb reads one of her books then they will no doubt believe it.
However, Wicca does incorporate some ancient Celtic traditions, but is overall a semi-new religion. Magick, which is usually a big part of Wicca, is by no meanas new, so ancient ceremonial magick and shamanism have been verified of going a way back.
But really, who cares if its ancient or not? I find it a deeply spiritual path, and that’s pretty much what everyone is looking for in any religion they choose!
T
Tallon
Guest
I’m 15, and I left the church two weeks ago as a result of these forums and deep research, actually. It all started with me reading about the origin of evil, somewhere on this forum, and the poster replying something along the lines of, “Lucifer decided not to serve God, and he fell out of the heavens into hell…”
Anyway, it sounded like much of a fairy tale, or story to me. I started reading both sides of the argument, of say, free will. I read arguments for why God exists and why the Christian God does not exist. The arguments for the latter make much more sense to me.
Now, I’m agnostic - or perhaps Deist, since I believe God probably was the cause of the big bang, but is not involved in everyday life. I’m still searching, though.
M
Montalban
Guest
This gets asked all the time.
For me a feeling of unease began to creep in when changes were made to the way we worshipped. Folk songs and non-religious songs were introduced (such as “Let it Be”), a groovy banners were drapped about the church. This was the beginning of my feeling of unease.
M
mary_bobo
Guest
Where did you read both sides of the argument? That might make a difference in how you view things. I am not aware that the Catholic Church teaches “fairy tales”. I am sorry to see you turn so easily without really knowing what the Church teaches.
K
Keikiolu
Guest
I’d be REALLY interested in what about “Christianity” you “just don’t believe in”…!
That list of items to talk about would be MOST enlightening.
The issue of “FORCED INDOCTRINATION” is a VERY typical objection to those who “impose” that they think is Christian doctrine on those who are “imposed upon”.
The interesting bit is that it’s the PEOPLE who do the imposing, not the Church itself, which that “objection” describes.
When people, especially the young, confuse the messenger with the message, a great evil has been commited, not by the youth but by the messenger.
The Church always tells us to question the validity of anything and everything that is not a matter of dogmatic faith and morals.In other words, if you truly believe in your Church, then great!
If someone thinks that NO DOGMA is valid, simply because it IS a dogma, has a misunderstanding of what a dogma is,… and in particular why any particular dogma does in fact exist.
To see ANY “following of dogma” as “closed minded slavish imbecility” is not to understand that there are such things as dogma which we all follow, regardless of whether we recognize them AS dogmas or not.
In other words, man does not NOT do dogma, and to not have dogmas is to not be human.
The wiccan deities are “demons and angels”, though mostly demons.
I’ve moved from where you are to where I am, as an ex-wiccan-oid (celtic mostly), by way of realizing (finally) the silly “in-fighting” between the gods, which is a necessary quality of them, and a great “convincer” (to me) of the internal “energy wasting” (friction) which points AWAY from “the gods” being the REAL face of deity.
“The gods”, in their silliness, showed me the need for a thing to “unify” them,… which led me to the “great fuzzy deity” who smoothed all hard edges between then gods,… and that god, in it’s (it had no person per se) utter ineffectuality led me straight to the real God, as revealed in our history as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
I had a very difficult time with the “cultural clothing” of the church, such as it’s being “clothed” in the experience of the peoples of the middle east and environs, etc, but once God is seen as actually REAL, via actual experience in prayer, it is perfectly sensible that just as we receive knowledge via a “temporal language” (our language in the time we live) that we would receive God’s message through the “language” of the experience of a particular people used as “the conduit”, the example.
You will discover the frictions of the gods is unbearable as time goes by.
When you do, read the Catechism. In fact, read it now as a potentially GREAT source of the “aspects” of which your “gods” are based.
The gods are merely those aspects of the virtues and the sins as ennumerated in the catechism.
All gods can be found, for what they really are, in the Church, and in the documents of the Church,… the foremost and most concise being the catechism.
Best to you on your path.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.- Status