Former nuncio now says sanctions against McCarrick were ‘private’

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Not disagreeing; however, there are times that even the police hide people until such time they can guarantee safety. We do not know why because no one is giving information beyond, “investigate yourself and come to your own conclusions”

I have been attempting to investigate myself, but it is becoming harder and harder. Everything is growing foggier and it’s very difficult to find any clear information because there are way too many opinions thrown in. Does anyone have a video of Pope Francis speaking to the reporter on the plane? All I can find is video with no audio or written transcripts. I would like to see his demeanor and expressions as he spoke
 
I don’t know why it was such a bad thing either. I grew up not far from where Kim Davis is from. My understanding from speaking to people back home is that the majority of people were very glad the Pope met with her. I was unaware until this current crisis started that anyone thought it was wrong
 
Did you read the 11 page testimony? Archbishop Vigano states WHY he felt it necessary to go public. You are speculating as to his motives. Do you really want to know what is the truth -to have a proper investigation as has been called for by numerous bishops (17 so far is who I’ve counted), or do you think we should all accept your speculations and abandon ?

Are you aware that Vigano’s version of events was corroborated last Monday by a former official in the Vatican embassy in Washington, Monsignor Jean-Francois Lantheaume, who told Catholic News Agency: 'Vigano said the truth. That is all." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nduct-allegations-like-earthquake-church.html
graciew said:
Come out and help the investigation, but not draw all this attention onto himself so as to " feel" protected.
And all this is mine.
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What investigation? Has Pope Francis agreed to any investigation into Vigano’s accusations? The NY Times says they reached out to every cardinal and bishop implicated by Vigano as knowing about sanctions against McCarrick - not one would respond.
 
KIm Davis was the county clerk for Rowan County, Kentucky, who refused to give a gay couple a marriage license, because it was against her religion.

Vigano used her as a political news item by sneaking her into a private meeting with Pope Francis when he came to the United States. He had no idea who she was, but the media was already notified about the Pope meeting her, and it was for political purposes, which is why Pope Francis was upset at Vigano about it.

Jim
 
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Vigano has released a complete description of how the Kim Davis meeting occurred. It reads as if it exactly how something like that meeting would be arranged. Nothing in it has been challenged as being untrue to my knowledge. It would be quite easy to show it was false, if that is the case.
On top of that, the whole idea of a curia officials arranging a meeting of anyone with the Pope and the pope not knowing who he was meeting with seems quite absurd to me.
 
The Vatican disagrees with Vigano that the meeting as arranged with the Pope’s knowledge of the purpose.

Pope Francis himself said that he would not get involved with political debates in the USA, it’s not the purpose for his visit.

Jim
 
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Did you read the 11 page testimony? Archbishop Vigano states WHY he felt it necessary to go public. Do you really want to know what is the truth -to have a proper investigation as has been called for by numerous bishops (17 so far is who I’ve counted), or do you think we should all accept the speculation that Vigano is “playing bowling and has hit 3 popes with unsubstantiated claims” and abort calls to find out the truth?

Are you aware that Vigano’s version of events was corroborated last Monday by a former official in the Vatican embassy in Washington, Monsignor Jean-Francois Lantheaume, who told Catholic News Agency: 'Vigano said the truth. That is all." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nduct-allegations-like-earthquake-church.html
graciew said:
Come out and help the investigation, but not draw all this attention onto himself so as to " feel" protected.
And all this is mine.
Click to expand...
Has Pope Francis agreed to any investigation into Vigano’s accusations? Pope Francis so far had only this to say, “…I will not say a single word about this. I believe the statement speaks for itself. And you have the journalistic capacity to draw your own conclusions. It’s an act of faith. When some time passes and you have drawn your conclusions, I may speak. But, I would like your professional maturity to do the work for you. It will be good for you".

The NY Times says they reached out to every cardinal and bishop implicated by Vigano as knowing about sanctions against McCarrick - not one would respond. If Cardinal Was Under Pope’s Sanctions, Why Was He Allowed at Gala Events? - The New York Times
 
Vatican spokesmen contradict Viganò’s account of meeting with Pope Francis about Kim Davis

Father Thomas Rosica, C.S.B., and Federico Lombardi, S.J., former director of the Holy See Press Office, issued a statement on Sept. 2 that challenges Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò’s version of his meeting with Pope Francis in October 2015 to discuss his controversial encounter with Kim Davis. The statement contradicts Archbishop Viganò’s account of his meeting with the pope, in which he said Francis had never reproached him for organizing the meeting with Ms. Davis.

Vatican spokesmen contradict Viganò’s account of meeting with Pope Francis about Kim Davis | America Magazine
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Read the rest of the story

Jim
 
The Vatican initially issued a completely misleading statement about the meeting with Kim Davis (one could arguably say they lied ), strongly implying it was with a group of over a dozen people.
So the Vatican’s credibility on this precise topic is somewhat compromised
 
Father Rosica, who kept notes of the meeting, said the archbishop told them that he never intended to harm the pope with his idea to have Ms. Davis at the nunciature. When Father Rosica asked Archbishop Viganò if the visit had been arranged and approved by the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Conference at that time, Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz of Louisville, Ky., and the cardinal archbishop of Washington, Donald Wuerl, “He did not answer.” The question was relevant as it was widely rumored that the U.S. bishops had not approved the pope’s meeting with Ms. Davis.

Vatican spokesmen contradict Viganò’s account of meeting with Pope Francis about Kim Davis | America Magazine
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At this point, people are taking sides, either with Pope Francis as I am, or with Vigano and so they must also be supporting his call for Pope Francis to resign.

No point in arguing this issue any further.

Back to Prayer
Jim
 
This has all been addressed in another thread. Vigano released the memo he gave to pope Francis prior to Kim Davis meeting
memo: https://s3.amazonaws.com/lifesite/Kim_Davis_ProMemoria_for_Pope_Francis.pdf

www.nytimes.com

Pope Francis’ Accuser Turns Up the Pressure With More Accusations (Published 2018)

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò offered new accounts on matters including the pope’s 2015 private meeting with Kim Davis, a Kentucky clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Vigano’s statement of Kim Davis meeting: https://s3.amazonaws.com/lifesite/Kim_Davis_-English-E-_final.pdf
 
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I don’t for one second believe anyone has ever been sneaked in to meet the pope. I didn’t know that Kim Davis, who was punished for following her conscience and asserting her religious liberty to do so, could possibly be considered controversial among Catholics. That is something we as Catholics should rally around. How is she considered “too political” but enviromentalism is what the pope is still speaking about, even now? He can’t give a straight forward answer unless it’s about water it seems.
 
I am not calling for Pope Francis to resign. Nor do I presume to know the truth. That only becomes known if there is an investigation into the serious and credible allegations.

*I say “credible” because that is what bishops who have bits and pieces of knowledge as to some of the allegations have stated. They are aware of similar corruption and would also like to see it cleaned up.

There are many more bishops who have known Vigono over the years of his long career. He had oversight of all embassies for a decade, is a well-trained diplomat, worked in the Vatican to clean up the finances of disappearing money for a year, and was the nuncio to the US. These bishops have gone on record to say they find him to be “trustworthy.”

I tell this all to you, not because I believe one side or the other…HOW COULD YOU OR I POSSIBLY KNOW?.. but because I, too, think it’s important for the truth to be determined so the Church can regain her credibility and moral authority.
 
That is true. He even personally called the divorced and remarried CATHOLIC couple early in his papacy to speak about communion. Kim Davis is an evangelical from what I recall. I guess divorced and remarried evangelicals are far worse than divorced and remarried couples taking the Eucharist or “married” gay couples.

http://m.ncregister.com/blog/edward...call-to-divorced-remarried-woman#.W4x5eaROnYU

Not good at posting links. Hope that works.
 
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I read the Testimony.Moré than once. And posted. More than once
Talking about the Mc Carrick trial.
And his and his other person claiming threat to life: I say report it to the Police. Right now.
Hardly asking to stop investgating.
Please ,read posts yourself too…
 
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13pollitos said:
there are times that even the police hide people until such time they can guarantee safety. We do not know why because no one is giving information beyond, “investigate yourself and come to your own conclusions”

I have been attempting to investigate myself, but it is becoming harder and harder.
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Agree.
Now,we are asking victims to report it. Zero tolerance. To the proper authorities.
And we have M Vigano in the hiding allegedly fearing for his life. Hiding from who?
It isn t like he doesn’t have resources to contact the Police or proper authorities.
That is what the Church is asking people to do. We are normal common people…
Can you imagine a simple person,moreover a victim,watching all this?? And a.prelate hiding with all they have gone through ?
 
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Some of us don’t want Pope Francis to resign–we just want him to actually respond to Viganó’s accusations. 😀
 
I will admit to finding Vigano’s statement very credible. I do not agree with his call for the Holy Father to resign. I wholeheartedly agree with the bishops who have called for an investigation into the whole McCarrick affair. Who knew what and when, who help him through the years despite the knowledge. That information needs to be made known to all

And I find the continued attacks on Vigano’s character as wrong and as a sign that his statements are likely truthful
 
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One more point, of all of the testimonials to Vigano’s character I have read, I do not recall any of them agreeing with his call for the Pope’s resignation.
 
www.americamagazine.org

Vatican spokesmen contradict Viganò’s account of meeting with Pope Francis about Kim Davis

The statement contradicts Archbishop Viganò’s account of his meeting with the pope, in which he said Francis had never reproached him for organizing the meeting with Ms. Davis.
www.americamagazine.org www.americamagazine.org

Father Lombardi and Father Rosica say Archbishop Viganò failed to mention in his account that he had invited them to meet with him in his Vatican apartment on the evening after his audience with Francis. At that time he seemed “shaken” and offered a very different version of what the pope said.

Father Rosica, who kept notes of the meeting, said the archbishop told them that he never intended to harm the pope with his idea to have Ms. Davis at the nunciature. When Father Rosica asked Archbishop Viganò if the visit had been arranged and approved by the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Conference at that time, Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz of Louisville, Ky., and the cardinal archbishop of Washington, Donald Wuerl, “He did not answer.” The question was relevant as it was widely rumored that the U.S. bishops had not approved the pope’s meeting with Ms. Davis.

Father Rosica quoted verbatim the former-nuncio as telling them (speaking in Italian): “The Holy Father in his paternal benevolence thanked me for his visit to the USA but also said that I had deceived him [in] bringing that woman to the nunciature.”

Archbishop Viganò added, “The pope told me: ‘You never told me that she had four husbands.’”

Father Lombardi confirmed Father Rosica’s record of the meeting as “reliable.”
 
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