Former Orthodox Here

[truthseeker32]

Do you ever go to non-Orthodox (E.g. Catholic, let’s say ) churches?

(I’m not seeking to proselytize or anything, just wondering. )

Occasionally, yes. My good friend is a Lutheran pastor in town, and the local Orthodox Christian Fellowship meets in the local Newman Center.

 

[jschwartz]

I have personally found much of the Orthodox churches, both Eastern and Oriental, to be overly ethnic. I suppose that’s the difference between the West and East. In the East, church and state are bound eternally into one unit. The church in places like Russia, Armenia, Greece, and Serbia is the ethnic/nationalist force at the heart of the country. In the Middle East, due to Islamic rule, I have found that to not be the case as much, but nonetheless, what happens is that the church becomes a locus of ethnic community for Copts, Assyrians, and others in the new country. Those who aren’t part of that culture don’t have much of a place within the church. The notable exception in America seems to be the Antiochian church and the OCA, which have many converts in their ranks and episcopacy. Guys who look like their name ought to be Vladimir or Stavros, but who are really McAllister and Smith. That being said, I do enjoy Vespers from time to time on Saturday nights at Orthodox churches.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

I have personally found much of the Orthodox churches, both Eastern and Oriental, to be overly ethnic. I suppose that’s the difference between the West and East. In the East, church and state are bound eternally into one unit. The church in places like Russia, Armenia, Greece, and Serbia is the ethnic/nationalist force at the heart of the country. In the Middle East, due to Islamic rule, I have found that to not be the case as much, but nonetheless, what happens is that the church becomes a locus of ethnic community for Copts, Assyrians, and others in the new country. Those who aren’t part of that culture don’t have much of a place within the church. The notable exception in America seems to be the Antiochian church and the OCA, which have many converts in their ranks and episcopacy. Guys who look like their name ought to be Vladimir or Stavros, but who are really McAllister and Smith. That being said, I do enjoy Vespers from time to time on Saturday nights at Orthodox churches.

Well that wasn’t demeaning

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

I have personally found much of the Orthodox churches, both Eastern and Oriental, to be overly ethnic. I suppose that’s the difference between the West and East. In the East, church and state are bound eternally into one unit. The church in places like Russia, Armenia, Greece, and Serbia is the ethnic/nationalist force at the heart of the country. In the Middle East, due to Islamic rule, I have found that to not be the case as much, but nonetheless, what happens is that the church becomes a locus of ethnic community for Copts, Assyrians, and others in the new country. Those who aren’t part of that culture don’t have much of a place within the church. The notable exception in America seems to be the Antiochian church and the OCA, which have many converts in their ranks and episcopacy. Guys who look like their name ought to be Vladimir or Stavros, but who are really McAllister and Smith. That being said, I do enjoy Vespers from time to time on Saturday nights at Orthodox churches.

Phyletist tendencies can be risk, sure.

I’d say any parish is ethnic though. Groups from the mirror the culture of the dominant ethnic group in America just get perceived as “non-ethnic.” Being the child of immigrants and also a convert, I must say that the “non-ethnic” OCA and Antiochian seem just as ethnic to me as the parishes of Russians, Serbs, etc. They just happen to be “Anglo-American ethnic.” I have asked other converts who are not assimilated into the dominant Anglo-American culture; it loooks the same to them too.

Catholic and Protestant churches are very ethnic too. I will own up to the issue of phyletist tendencies, but I cannot agree with the stereotype that Orthodox are more “ethnic” than Western Christians. We are just often the “wrong kind” of “ethnic.”

*Also, I might add that nationalism is very interwined with conservative Christianity in the US. Is the Christian Right really less nationalist than the Russian Orthodox? It is not a strictly Orthodox problem.

 

[prodromos]

The church in places like Poland, Argentina, Brazil, and Italy is the ethnic/nationalist force at the heart of the country.

 

[ngchase]

Glory to Jesus Christ,

I entered into the Catholic Communion from the Orthodox Church in 2009. I had converted to Orthodoxy from the Anglican church. The main reason for becoming Catholic was seeing the necessity of a strong primacy within the Church. I did not find that within Orthodoxy but I did in the Catholic Church. Luckily for me, I was able to find a wonderful Byzantine Catholic parish and was able to have the best of both worlds: my love of the Christian East and the primacy of Peter and his successors.

 

[adamhovey1988]

You know my own ethnic background is as varied as the day is wide, and the local melkite Greek Catholic Church that I sometimes attend does not have many Arab families. But if I go elsewhere to a traditional Middle Eastern Church like the Maronite Catholic Church in Greer there are a lot of Middle Eastern families. Personally I think that the church as being ethnic enclaves is more Eastern Orthodox at this moment but I know a priest who belongs to the Patriarchate of Antioch and is an Orthodox priest and he is not Arab in fact he was raised Baptist. I do See it why it traditionally worked this way for a very good reason there just weren’t a whole lot of Latins in the Middle East. I honestly do feel like it is a blessing that I can worship with Eastern Catholics within less than an hour of driving distance. I feel like they are a witness that the Orthodox can be in union with Rome and still be Orthodox. Just my $0.02 feel free to agree or disagree. Anyway I think another thing is to remember that Latins have always meant ethnically diverse of course we have the largest liturgical rite used on earth, and I think much of that is because of the countries the Catholic countries that colonized much of the world were Latin countries. Of course he East doesn’t just have Middle Easterners, Slavs fall under that jurisdiction to. Although I must admit to being a bit perplexed why Slovenes and Polish tend to be Latin. I think that’s what I like about Ukraine you find Eastern Catholics and orthodox as well as some Latins on the Polish order. Not saying they always get along but I find it kind of school they are both there. Personally I love the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople went to the Pope’s installation Mass to me this is a step in the right direction. I don’t know what’s going to happen with the Pope’s meeting with the Russian Orthodox patriarch but let’s remember Our Lord’s: prayer that they may all be one

 

[Peter_J]

Phyletist tendencies can be risk, sure.

I’d say any parish is ethnic though. Groups from the mirror the culture of the dominant ethnic group in America just get perceived as “non-ethnic.” Being the child of immigrants and also a convert, I must say that the “non-ethnic” OCA and Antiochian seem just as ethnic to me as the parishes of Russians, Serbs, etc. They just happen to be “Anglo-American ethnic.” I have asked other converts who are not assimilated into the dominant Anglo-American culture; it loooks the same to them too.

Catholic and Protestant churches are very ethnic too. I will own up to the issue of phyletist tendencies, but I cannot agree with the stereotype that Orthodox are more “ethnic” than Western Christians. We are just often the “wrong kind” of “ethnic.”

*Also, I might add that nationalism is very interwined with conservative Christianity in the US. Is the Christian Right really less nationalist than the Russian Orthodox? It is not a strictly Orthodox problem.

Good response. I always hate when it becomes “open season on the Orthodox” on these forums.

I would like to add: even in the West, not every country has separation-of-church-and-state like in the USA. (And I don’t even want to get into the medieval popes.)

Oh, also, as far as ethnicity becoming a problem, I can testify that that can happen in Catholicism, not just in Orthodoxy. Heck, I would that out of all the Eastern Catholic parishes that I’ve ever been to, it is a problem in more of them than not … to the point that many of the parishes are now on their last leg.

 

[JurisPrudens]

Hi All –

My first post. I was born and raised Roman Catholic and spent a short time in a Melkite church. In 2001, I converted to the Orthodox Church. Due to several reasons, I recently returned to the Roman Catholic Church.

Are there any other former Orthodox here?

29

I was baptised as a Russian Orthodox, however, I never practiced.

I converted and started my spiritual life in the Latin Rite mainly because:

1. I have always been more interested in the Western theological tradition. I don’t know why, maybe it is God’s grace. :angel1:
2. The things many criticize in the Catholic Church (rationalism, “legalism”), in fact, attract me. I love a fine and consistent system of doctrines. BTW, I’m a lawyer.
3. The Catholic doctrine seems more consistent to me. The Orthodox “sometimes” about contraception, divorce and some other issues do not seem good to me.
4. Many people here mentioned that the ROC’s problem is its perceived “nationalism”. I would be more precise. It is not nationalism, it is more of a “imperialism” and “statism”. The Orthodox have always fell into tendency of revering the secular princes too much. The same holds today. When in 2011-12 the people were protesting against the rugged electoral count, the ROC leaders denounced them. Patriarch Kyril even once said that “excessive desire of justice is sinful”, or something like that. That’s not a church I would feel I might be saved by.

 

[JurisPrudens]

For any former Orthodox: Did any spiritual practice seem different or unusual in the Western Church?

Well, initially I was slightly surprised by the Adoration of the Sacrament… Although not for long.

 

[coptsoldier]

Hello,

Baptised Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Catholic for 2 years, then returned to Orthodoxy. A lot of spirituality in the western church is foreign to eastern praxis, that doesn’t make any of it wrong though. Just not my cup of tea. I returned to orthodoxy due to language issues not theology or faith.

 

[AXO]

A lot of spirituality in the western church is foreign to eastern praxis …]

I can’t understand what you mean.

I returned to orthodoxy due to language issues not theology or faith.

No frights or proselytisms intended but… are you seriously aware of your decision?

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Glory to Jesus Christ,

I entered into the Catholic Communion from the Orthodox Church in 2009. I had converted to Orthodoxy from the Anglican church. The main reason for becoming Catholic was seeing the necessity of a strong primacy within the Church. I did not find that within Orthodoxy but I did in the Catholic Church. Luckily for me, I was able to find a wonderful Byzantine Catholic parish and was able to have the best of both worlds: my love of the Christian East and the primacy of Peter and his successors.

If you don’t mind me asking, did history factor into your decision? I know for most Orthodox who converted from Catholicism, Church history played an important role in their decision.

 

[coptsoldier]

I can’t understand what you mean.

No frights or proselytisms intended but… are you seriously aware of your decision?

In regards to what I mean. Even something like adoration is foreign to the eastern spirituality of the orthodox and eastern Catholic Church. It’s a tradition which started in the west in the 1200s, and as such did not develop in the orthodox east.

As to your second question, Rome has made it very clear in recent dialogue with the orthodox that their desire is not to convert individuals to the Catholic Church but to completely restore the church to her former glory. In my case, whilst I may be in attendance at an orthodox parish, I myself am personally not in schism from Rome, nor will I ever be. If I moved to an area where the Byzantine Catholic parish was properly eastern and prayed in English I would probably attend there, however since moving interstate I have lost that blessing. I was attending a Melkite parish for 2 years, and plan on attending Melkite services when I can.

The schism is dumb. Whether Rome or the orthodox are to blame is not for me to decide. I personally believe both are to blame. Intolerance and arrogance run strong throughout history. But as I personally do recognise the primacy of the Roman see, I believe the orthodox need communion with the western church. But I also believe the western church are lacking due to their non-communion with the orthodox.

I’m not sure if that makes sense. For a historical person similar to how I feel please look up soloviev or perhaps archbishop zoghby of blessed memory.

 

[Peter_J]

Hello,

Baptised Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Catholic for 2 years
…

Hi coptsoldier. Don’t feel any pressure to share more than you wish to, but reading the above leaves me wondering whether you meant that you simply started attending and EC parish, or if you meant that you were officially received into Catholicism from Orthodoxy.

 

[coptsoldier]

Hi coptsoldier. Don’t feel any pressure to share more than you wish to, but reading the above leaves me wondering whether you meant that you simply started attending and EC parish, or if you meant that you were officially received into Catholicism from Orthodoxy.

I’m not sure to be honest. I had confession with a Ukrainian priest and recited the nicene creed without the Filioque. But I was never asked to renounce anything of my orthodox belief, nor was I asked to accept anything foreign to orthodoxy of the first millennium.

What is the normal process for an orthodox Christian officially becoming Catholic?

 

[JurisPrudens]

I’m not sure to be honest. I had confession with a Ukrainian priest and recited the nicene creed without the Filioque. But I was never asked to renounce anything of my orthodox belief, nor was I asked to accept anything foreign to orthodoxy of the first millennium.

What is the normal process for an orthodox Christian officially becoming Catholic?

1 year of RCIA catechism, taking an oath of reunification, confession, communion.

In case the rite is changed, also an application is made to the local ordinary of the Eastern rite.

 

[RyanBlack]

1 year of RCIA catechism, taking an oath of reunification, confession, communion.

In case the rite is changed, also an application is made to the local ordinary of the Eastern rite.

RCIA is not required for the Orthodox. Furthermore, if someone who is Orthodox is being received through one of the Eastern Catholic Churches, the don’t use RCIA.

 

[SyroMalankara]

1 year of RCIA catechism, taking an oath of reunification, confession, communion.

Confession and the recitation of the Profession sans filioque

In case the rite is changed, also an application is made to the local ordinary of the Eastern rite.

A Coptic Orthodox received via the Ukrainian or any other Catholic Church is a Coptic Catholic unless both the Coptic Catholic bishop releases and Ukrainian Catholic bishop receives him. Attending, even regularly, requires no change of particular church

 

[Peter_J]

What is the normal process for an orthodox Christian officially becoming Catholic?

Before the list of proposals gets any longer (based on my experience with Internet discussion forums, I could really seeing it growing to eight or ten) let me say that it’s up to our hierarchs to decide that, not people like us posting on a thread.

But it seems the bigger question is, based on what you’ve said, Are you thinking there’s a possibility that they “received” you into the Catholic Church without your knowledge?