former Pentcostals?

[Xavier]

*And I have found a kind depth of spirit in the repeated Catholic rituals that I never found in all my years in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. Trust me on this–sitting quietly does not mean not praising!!!

DaveBj

When visiting a trappist monastary they would contemplate, Sitting still and blocking out everything that was not God.
When I came to Pentecost I was told to press in…press in.
One was inward one outward but both came to the same end.

 

[Xavier]

Katholikos:

There are only two God-made religions: Judaism and Catholicism. All the rest are made by man.

Well, perhaps. But, if true, the Spirit has taught the Pentecostals one thing and Catholics quite another.

Perhaps someone who has traveled the road from fractured belief to unbelief to Catholicism can see more clearly that though some Catholics have fallen into a ditch, they can get up. Their Mother – the Church – will help them up when they’re ready, bring them into her hospital for treatment, and nurse them back to spiritual health.

I didn’t just fall into a ditch – I deliberately jumped into the black hole of atheism. Only Mother Church could have ever pulled me out of that pit. Her beauty and the symmetry of her doctrines were magnets, which drew me irresistibly. Here was true worship. The ersatz emotionalism of Pentecostalism has no appeal; worship is a sermon and a song. I find Protestantism shallow and illogical; I could never be a Protestant.

Today’s relativist may be tomorrow’s saint. The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners and a training ground for saints. I thank God there was room in His Hospital for an industrial-strength sinner like me!

I LOVE THIS CHURCH.

JMJ Jay

My, My , My as the desert fathers would say " You know what you say is true"

 

[Xavier]

rayne89:

I. What bewilders me if we are both hearing from God why does it seem that what we’re hearing is different.

All things are possible with God.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

rayne89:

The thing was Marie I felt absolutely nothing in the that church. No Spirit, no presence. I was praying in my head to God while I was there, “I don’t understand, it looks like these people feel your presence but all I feel is a sadness and emptiness. How can that be?” It seemed so hyped up that I thought maybe what people were feeling was their own adrenalin. I believe these people are genuine in their love of Christ. I wasn’t trying to be judgemental, I was just trying to understand.

I have been to other Pentecostal services and I went to a Pentecostal summer camp with my best friend when I was 13. Most of the time the sermons seemed to be about if there is suffering in your life, if you were sick your faith in Jesus isn’t strong enough. I remember thinking so my sister died of cancer because her faith wasn’t strong enough-yeah right.

I just feel conflicted because if Holy Spirit is the one to guide us in truth how can those who say they are guided by the Spirit be going in a completely different direction. Jesus gave us the incredible gift of himself in the Eucharist, how sad he must be that they don’t even know that he’s there.

Hi .Rayne, How can you say you were not being judgemental. Look at your closing statement again and revaluate what you think.

 

[rayne89]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi .Rayne, How can you say you were not being judgemental. Look at your closing statement again and revaluate what you think.

I just feel conflicted because if Holy Spirit is the one to guide us in truth how can those who say they are guided by the Spirit be going in a completely different direction. Jesus gave us the incredible gift of himself in the Eucharist, how sad he must be that they don’t even know that he’s there.

Is the above what you are referring to? I am speaking from what I believe. I believe the Eucharist is Jesus, not just spirit-but physically present as well. This is what I believe because that is what he says in the Bible according to John 6 and what he says at the last supper.

You have to understand, lets say for a moment you believed as I did, that you could go and sit before the Lord not just spiritualy but physically, that he would come to you body, blood, soul & divinity. This is a precious gift. Would you not want everyone to share in it? Wouldn’t you think Jesus would want everyone to have a share in it? Would he not be sad that some of his children missed out on this?

As far as feeling conflicted it’s the truth it’s not a judgement. I know these seperated christian brothers and sisters love Jesus. I also know that the Holy Spirit was sent to guide us in truth. So which is true? I believe the Catholic church is the church that was founded by Jesus Christ, that’s not a judgement it’s part of my faith. Yet I know these people seem to have the Holy Sprit working through them, yet according to this particular preacher/church they believe the spirit is not alive in our church and I know many Pentecostals who believe the Catholic church is a cult. By the defination of truth there can not be different truths.

I have this aguement with my manager. He believes I am judgemental because I believe that abortion is wrong. He says “How can you impose you beliefs on other people?” But what I say to him is I believe abortion is murder. Murder can not be wrong for me and not wrong for you. Murder is murder.

I believe the Eucharist is truly Jesus Christ. I can not say he is there when I recieve him but he is not there for you because that’s not what you believe.

1 Cor 1:10. I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.

Phil 2:1-2 If there is any encouragement in Christ, any solace in love, any participation in the Spirit, any compassion and mercy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, with the same love, united in heart, thinking one thing.

*John 17:19-22 And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth. *"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,

Peace

 

[SPOKENWORD]

I just feel conflicted because if Holy Spirit is the one to guide us in truth how can those who say they are guided by the Spirit be going in a completely different direction. Jesus gave us the incredible gift of himself in the Eucharist, how sad he must be that they don’t even know that he’s there.

Is the above what you are referring to? I am speaking from what I believe. I believe the Eucharist is Jesus, not just spirit-but physically present as well. This is what I believe because that is what he says in the Bible according to John 6 and what he says at the last supper.

You have to understand, lets say for a moment you believed as I did, that you could go and sit before the Lord not just spiritualy but physically, that he would come to you body, blood, soul & divinity. This is a precious gift. Would you not want everyone to share in it? Wouldn’t you think Jesus would want everyone to have a share in it? Would he not be sad that some of his children missed out on this?

As far as feeling conflicted it’s the truth it’s not a judgement. I know these seperated christian brothers and sisters love Jesus. I also know that the Holy Spirit was sent to guide us in truth. So which is true? I believe the Catholic church is the church that was founded by Jesus Christ, that’s not a judgement it’s part of my faith. Yet I know these people seem to have the Holy Sprit working through them, yet according to this particular preacher/church they believe the spirit is not alive in our church and I know many Pentecostals who believe the Catholic church is a cult. By the defination of truth there can not be different truths.

I have this aguement with my manager. He believes I am judgemental because I believe that abortion is wrong. He says “How can you impose you beliefs on other people?” But what I say to him is I believe abortion is murder. Murder can not be wrong for me and not wrong for you. Murder is murder.

I believe the Eucharist is truly Jesus Christ. I can not say he is there when I recieve him but he is not there for you because that’s not what you believe.

1 Cor 1:10. I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.

Phil 2:1-2 If there is any encouragement in Christ, any solace in love, any participation in the Spirit, any compassion and mercy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, with the same love, united in heart, thinking one thing.

*John 17:19-22 And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth. *"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,

Peace

Everything from heaven is spiritual. A spirit requires a body[flesh] to expose itself. Jesus has already done it. He exposed himself in flesh and is now spirit in the kingdom of heaven. I know what your saying.
You see it physically through the eyes of faith[spiritual].

 

[MariaG]

I am not nor will I ever leave the Catholic Church. She is the only Christian religion made by God. But what I did say is IF, hypothetically, leave the Catholic Church, it would be a Pentecostal Church. Pentecostals expect to see Christ when they go to church. They expect to see great movings of the Holy Spirit. Church is a place to go to get “filled” with the Holy Spirit, so to speak. I see this as very much like Catholics who go to receive the Real Presence of Christ.

I could never be a Protestant again either, but that does not invalidate that fact that they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Worship is not a sermon and a song, but tools used in worship. A heart can reach out and worship without needing to be in or partaking of the Real Presence of Christ.

I can honestly say that as a Pentecostal, I worshipped Christ as fully as the knowledge I had available to me. Shallow or Emotionalism? How about sincere worship from those truly seeking God but through no fault of their own do not know the fullness of the truth of the Catholic Church.

Sincerely,
Your former Pentecostal sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

posted by rayne89

The thing was Marie I felt absolutely nothing in the that church. No Spirit, no presence

I have heard other Catholics say similar things, but I think it has more to do with the fact that we have the “Real” thing. What you felt missing was the Real Presence. Having been used to it, its loss is keen. Is it possible that because the loss of His presence was so overwhelming that you could have been closed to other movings of the Holy Spirit? I have not been back to one since coming to the Catholic Church, maybe I will have to do so in order to compare the experiences.

I do understand about the preaching and not having “enough” faith. The idea of suffering is a very Catholic concept. I was reading something by Scott Hahn on this. I think one of the lines I try to share with my Protestant friends is that sometimes we need to suffer not because what Christ did is not enough, but because Christ suffered and we need to be like Christ. The servant is never greater than the Master kind of thinking.

It is incredibly sad that they do not even understand what they are missing. But before you can show them, you need to understand what they have. They have a wonderful, close relationship with Christ and see great workings of the Holy Spirit. Our job is to show them how much more they can have!

I think many Catholics tend to see Protestants and try to make Protestants see what they are missing. I think we need to focus on showing them how much more they can have, how much more there is just waiting for them. Don’t try to show them they only have a glass that is half full, try to show them a full glass.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[SPOKENWORD]

MariaG:

I have heard other Catholics say similar things, but I think it has more to do with the fact that we have the “Real” thing. What you felt missing was the Real Presence. Having been used to it, its loss is keen. Is it possible that because the loss of His presence was so overwhelming that you could have been closed to other movings of the Holy Spirit? I have not been back to one since coming to the Catholic Church, maybe I will have to do so in order to compare the experiences.

I do understand about the preaching and not having “enough” faith. The idea of suffering is a very Catholic concept. I was reading something by Scott Hahn on this. I think one of the lines I try to share with my Protestant friends is that sometimes we need to suffer not because what Christ did is not enough, but because Christ suffered and we need to be like Christ. The servant is never greater than the Master kind of thinking.

It is incredibly sad that they do not even understand what they are missing. But before you can show them, you need to understand what they have. They have a wonderful, close relationship with Christ and see great workings of the Holy Spirit. Our job is to show them how much more they can have!

I think many Catholics tend to see Protestants and try to make Protestants see what they are missing. I think we need to focus on showing them how much more they can have, how much more there is just waiting for them. Don’t try to show them they only have a glass that is half full, try to show them a full glass.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

Hi Maria, Some well thought posts. God Bless you.

 

[Katholikos]

MariaG:

They have a wonderful, close relationship with Christ and see great workings of the Holy Spirit…

My point: Pentecostals believe that their doctrines are true and that their emotional experiences are genuinely the work of the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit in Pentecostalism is believed to teach to one thing and the Holy Spirit in Catholicism quite another, they both can’t be true. One or the other is mistaken.

Peace be with you,
JMJ Jay

 

[MariaG]

posted by Katholikos
My point: Pentecostals believe that their doctrines are true and that their emotional experiences are genuinely the work of the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit in Pentecostalism is believed to teach to one thing and the Holy Spirit in Catholicism quite another, they both can’t be true. One or the other is mistaken.

What teachings are you referring to? Please be more specific.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[Katholikos]

What teachings are you referring to? Please be more specific.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

Here are a few:
The definition of “church.” The denial of the Real Presence and belief in symbolic communion. Belief that the Bible consists of 66 writings, not 73. Belief that only baptism by immersion is valid. Belief in Millenialism. Belief that “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” is required, separate from water baptism, and that lack of glossolalia (speaking in “tongues”) is a sign that a person has not received the Spirit. Belief in the Rapture as originally taught by John Nelson Darby.

Pentecostalism was born in 1901 in Kansas, founded by Charles Parham, a Methodist minister. I’ve listed some of the Assembly Of God beliefs. The AOG was organized in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas.

Peace be with you,
JMJ Jay

 

[Matt16_18]

MariaG:

Pentecostals expect to see Christ when they go to church. They expect to see great movings of the Holy Spirit. Church is a place to go to get “filled” with the Holy Spirit, so to speak. I see this as very much like Catholics who go to receive the Real Presence of Christ. … I can honestly say that as a Pentecostal, I worshipped Christ as fully as the knowledge I had available to me. Shallow or Emotionalism? How about sincere worship from those truly seeking God but through no fault of their own do not know the fullness of the truth of the Catholic Church.

Sincerely,
Your former Pentecostal sister in Christ,
Maria

The problem with this thread is that some are trying to make Pentecostal spirituality and Catholic spirituality an either/or proposition, as if praising the Lord with song and joy was some how an offence against God who expects only silent reverence.

Charismatic Catholics understand that it is not an either/or situation, it is a both/and situation. Charismatic Catholics glory in the best of both worlds.
And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the horn. As the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window, and saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
2Sam. 6:14-16

 

[rayne89]

MariaG:

I have heard other Catholics say similar things, but I think it has more to do with the fact that we have the “Real” thing. What you felt missing was the Real Presence. Having been used to it, its loss is keen. Is it possible that because the loss of His presence was so overwhelming that you could have been closed to other movings of the Holy Spirit? I have not been back to one since coming to the Catholic Church, maybe I will have to do so in order to compare the experiences.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

Thanks Marie, you’ve helped me out alot. I feel more a peace now.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

The problem with this thread is that some are trying to make Pentecostal spirituality and Catholic spirituality an either/or proposition, as if praising the Lord with song and joy was some how an offence against God who expects only silent reverence.

Charismatic Catholics understand that it is not an either/or situation, it is a both/and situation. Charismatic Catholics glory in the best of both worlds.
And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the horn. As the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window, and saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
2Sam. 6:14-16

I dont think King David really cared what he looked like and what people though about his dancing before the Lord,but he did know that he was worshipping and praising God. Oh if I could only dance like King David but they probably wouldnt have a linen ephod in my size. God Bless.

 

[Katholikos]

Matt16_18:

The problem with this thread is that some are trying to make Pentecostal spirituality and Catholic spirituality an either/or proposition, as if praising the Lord with song and joy was some how an offence against God who expects only silent reverence.

Charismatic Catholics understand that it is not an either/or situation, it is a both/and situation. Charismatic Catholics glory in the best of both worlds.

Catholic spirituality is very rich – it encompasses many ways of expressing the True Faith, none to the exclusion of others.

Pentecostalism is not an expression of the True Faith.

JMJ Jay

 

[Matt16_18]

Katholikos:

Catholic spirituality is very rich – it encompasses many ways of expressing the True Faith, none to the exclusion of others.

Pentecostalism is not an expression of the True Faith.

JMJ Jay

While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Acts 10:44-47

 

[Katholikos]

Xavier:

As I sit here and type this Jesus is with me, I dont need to go to some chapel (He does not live in temples made of hands).
Not only is jesus with me burt he abides in me. He is in the Father and the Father in Him so He and the Father are both within me. I cant leave out the HS He resides in me also, what a profound reality this is…

“So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him” John 6:53-56 RSV.

Christ told us He would abide with us in His Eucharist. Abide means to remain. He is with us always in his Eucharistic presence. We receive Him into our bodies. His Body and Blood are assimilated into our body and blood. Without it, we are spiritually dead. We have His Word on that!

JMJ Jay

 

[SPOKENWORD]

“So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him” John 6:53-56 RSV.

Christ told us He would abide with us in His Eucharist. Abide means to remain. He is with us always in his Eucharistic presence. We receive Him into our bodies. His Body and Blood are assimilated into our body and blood. Without it, we are spiritually dead. We have His Word on that!

JMJ Jay

Jay, How do you know I am spiritually dead? Because I dont see it the same way as you with my spiritual eyes I am spiritually dead. Are our levels of faith the same? Are we all on the same spiritual level? Are all things revealed to all or only as God sees fit? Who told Peter that Jesus was Lord? Why was it only revealed to Peter at the time? Stop playing God with your assumptions. God Bless.

 

[Xavier]

“So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him” John 6:53-56 RSV.

Christ told us He would abide with us in His Eucharist. Abide means to remain. He is with us always in his Eucharistic presence. We receive Him into our bodies. His Body and Blood are assimilated into our body and blood. Without it, we are spiritually dead. We have His Word on that!

JMJ Jay

This may blow your theology however Im alive In Christ and He is alive in me.