Former Popes John Paul II and John XXIII to be canonized [CNA]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Luigi_Daniele
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
kag1982 said:
Pope Francis can do whatever he wants when it comes to declaring saints. That is the power he received from God with his election.

I think that this is a shrewd political decision on Francis’ part. It seems that one of the themes of his pontificate will be healing the divisions among Catholics. He really sees himself as the referee between liberals and conservatives and regularly points out the silliness in each’s arguments. I hear a lot about Gnostism and Pelgarianism coming out of Francis’ sermons as of late. This will make both sides happy… JPII for the more conservative and JXXIII for the more liberal.
Click to expand...
And the funny thing about it is that Blessed Pope John XXIII is wasn’t a liberal by today’s standards of what a liberal is. If the liberals would actually read what he wrote and actually read Vatican II they would know this. That’s why as an orthodox Catholic, I have no problem with our current Pope or with Blessed Pope John XXIII.
 
livingwordunity said:
And the funny thing about it is that Blessed Pope John XXIII is wasn’t a liberal by today’s standards of what a liberal is. If the liberals would actually read what he wrote and actually read Vatican II they would know this. That’s why as an orthodox Catholic, I have no problem with our current Pope or with Blessed Pope John XXIII.
Click to expand...
Sometimes when people use “liberal” in this sort of context they don’t mean it the way people mean, like, “John Kerry is a liberal.” In this sort of context “liberal” might be understood to refer to a particular style or attitude or disposition or orientation re: things like the Church’s teachings (preferring more phenomenological ways of expression, for instance), the liturgy (more immanent styles of celebration – what Pope Francis called an “emancipated style,” etc.). In this sense it is perfectly possible to be a liberal and also doctrinally orthodox. But you’re right, even in this very loose sense John XXIII was not a liberal and JPII was vastly more so.
 
Just to be clear, did they declare him a saint, or did they declare they will make him a saint?
 
kag1982 said:
Pope Francis can do whatever he wants when it comes to declaring saints. That is the power he received from God with his election.

I think that this is a shrewd political decision on Francis’ part. It seems that one of the themes of his pontificate will be healing the divisions among Catholics. He really sees himself as the referee between liberals and conservatives and regularly points out the silliness in each’s arguments. I hear a lot about Gnostism and Pelgarianism coming out of Francis’ sermons as of late. This will make both sides happy… JPII for the more conservative and JXXIII for the more liberal.
Click to expand...
I agree with that, within Catholicism. When it comes to the wider world at large, though, it just re-enforces the lack of credibility that anything coming out of the Holy See has. Rightly or wrongly.

🤷

The Church in the bigger world stage has a huge credibility problem. Whether or not that matters, is the question at hand for many.

The world does not view the Church as reflecting spiritual realities. What it does see is a Church that is subject to human influence, ego, weaknesses, and there for doesnt have to be taken seriously…Too much humaness at the helm, not enough of the Divine

I see that as a major weakness. But that is only my opinion
 
I was able to visit the culture center of Blessed John Paul and I am beside myself with anticipation. I think the Church has been blessed with the most amazing shepards of late and can not wait to see this canonization of the great John Paul II.
 
Marie5890 said:
I agree with that, within Catholicism. When it comes to the wider world at large, though, it just re-enforces the lack of credibility that anything coming out of the Holy See has. Rightly or wrongly.

🤷

The Church in the bigger world stage has a huge credibility problem. Whether or not that matters, is the question at hand for many.

The world does not view the Church as reflecting spiritual realities. What it does see is a Church that is subject to human influence, ego, weaknesses, and there for doesnt have to be taken seriously…Too much humaness at the helm, not enough of the Divine

I see that as a major weakness. But that is only my opinion
Click to expand...
The world will always hate the Church. That is just the nature of things in this fallen world. That cannot stop the Church from doing what she is charged to do.
 
sw85 said:
Just to be clear, did they declare him a saint, or did they declare they will make him a saint?
Click to expand...
It is my understanding, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, that the Church has declared him a saint, but have not yet announced the time when they will officially canonize him formally.
 
Regarding the waiving of the need for a miracle, Pius XI waived the need for miracles for Sts. Thomas More and John Fisher, so that they could be canonized during the 400 year anniversary of their deaths and because people especially needed their example with the rise of evil regimes demanding absolute obedience.

I don’t think it’s an unworthy thing from John XXIII’s cause to be accelerated tso his canonization coincides with the year of faith and the 50th anniversary of the ecumenical Council he summoned.

Regarding other worthy causes, different saints and beati are beatified or canonized at different times for different reasons. Sometimes, politics is involved, especially with papal saints, but God writes straight with crooked lines. Bl. Innocent XI’s cause for beatification was on hold for centuries because the French didn’t like him and accused him of siding with the Jansenists. On the other hand, St. Celestine V was canonized quickly by Celement V at the request of his lifelong friend Phillip the Fair, as a symbolic gesture to show that Clement believed it was Celestine’s rather than Boniface VIII’s policy toward France that was the proper course.
 
Genesis315 said:
Regarding the waiving of the need for a miracle, Pius XI waived the need for miracles for Sts. Thomas More and John Fisher, so that they could be canonized during the 400 year anniversary of their deaths and because people especially needed their example with the rise of evil regimes demanding absolute obedience.

I don’t think it’s an unworthy thing from John XXIII’s cause to be accelerated tso his canonization coincides with the year of faith and the 50th anniversary of the ecumenical Council he summoned.

Regarding other worthy causes, different saints and beati are beatified or canonized at different times for different reasons. Sometimes, politics is involved, especially with papal saints, but God writes straight with crooked lines. Bl. Innocent XI’s cause for beatification was on hold for centuries because the French didn’t like him and accused him of siding with the Jansenists. On the other hand, St. Celestine V was canonized quickly by Celement V at the request of his lifelong friend Phillip the Fair, as a symbolic gesture to show that Clement believed it was Celestine’s rather than Boniface VIII’s policy toward France that was the proper course.
Click to expand...
Which re-enforces the world view that the Catholic Church is subjected to the whims of the powers that be.

And why I think it’s just wise to do away with the requirement for miracles in the first place, since it’s not historically a requirement.
 
livingwordunity said:
And the funny thing about it is that Blessed Pope John XXIII is wasn’t a liberal by today’s standards of what a liberal is. If the liberals would actually read what he wrote and actually read Vatican II they would know this. That’s why as an orthodox Catholic, I have no problem with our current Pope or with Blessed Pope John XXIII.
Click to expand...
Bravo! Being Catholic, truly Catholic, means not taking sides (liberal/conservative). The Church speaks the truth, plain and simple. Read the writings of the original authors. Hear them in their own words and don’t let the media tell you who they are–they don’t know.

I am very happy to know that both Popes will be canonized.
 
No no second miracle was attributed. He is being canonized anyway. Second miracle requirement has been waived.
 
Since a 2nd miracle has been waived for the rerquirement for canonization I say toss out the whole need for miracles in the first place.

Makes the Church wishy-washy in being cosisant. we look rediculous.
 
Marie5890 said:
Which re-enforces the world view that the Catholic Church is subjected to the whims of the powers that be.
Click to expand...
Actually, the opposite is true. The Catholic Church is counter-cultural. She goes against the grain of today’s values. Today, the world is saying that the ultimate good is abortion and so-called “same-sex marriage”. And there is extreme pressure by the mainstream medias of nearly every developed nation to get people to believe this lie. But the Catholic Church has been unaffected by this propaganda. That’s why you don’t see the Catholic Church being tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine the way people and governments are. Satan is very frustrated that the Catholic Church remains a forbidden fruit to him. So since he can’t confuse Mother Church with his lies he goes after her children.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top