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Jimmygill88
Guest
Sorry I was merely pointing out that my point is arguable
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TiggerS
Guest
Insofar as I know (not much really), celibacy for priests is discplinary and can be changed if The Church decides to do so but indications are that The Church will not change and fair enough. What The Church decides applies in my book.
Priests who have been laicized and married are free to do so and insofar as I am aware it is a lengthy process to laicization and at least these priests that have been laicised have done the right thing insofar as The Church instructs.
Married laicized priests may not be able to return to the priesthood per se, but there may be much work especially with their past experience as priests they can undertake with our current shortage of priests especially. The one’s I am aware of (secondhand awareness)remain fullly practising Catholics and validly married Sacramentally in The Church, again insofar as I am aware.
Priests who have been laicized and married are free to do so and insofar as I am aware it is a lengthy process to laicization and at least these priests that have been laicised have done the right thing insofar as The Church instructs.
Married laicized priests may not be able to return to the priesthood per se, but there may be much work especially with their past experience as priests they can undertake with our current shortage of priests especially. The one’s I am aware of (secondhand awareness)remain fullly practising Catholics and validly married Sacramentally in The Church, again insofar as I am aware.
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feed_me
Guest
I wonder… if there is a difference between a married priest(eastern) and lonely priest(western). I mean that by saying that to me it seems that a married priest has far more insight into the lives of married people and can help couples that are going through married issues. The lonely priest it seems that all they can do is send you to this person ( like a hollywood agent) instead of being the problem solver. Besides I’m not reading in the news about some scandle that is rocking the eastern church. It wouldn’t suprise me if the eastern church doesn’t have men lining up to become priests like a crowd lining up to buy apples next big toy.
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peace2u2
Guest
Wow why are you making remarks that are so narrowminded? Why do assume that priest that are unmarried are lonely? Are you friends with any Western Catholic Priests? Apparently not.
Do you think that single people (non-religious) who choose not to get married are lonely too? I have received some pretty poor marriage advice from people I know that are married and some of the best advice has come from my single friends!
Personally, I don’t have any priests as personal friends, but I have 2 friends that do and these priests do not lead lonely lives. They have hobbies and interests and they also have families that consist of parents and siblings and cousins etc and they have a lot of friends and find the time to lead healthy, normal lives. They go to the movies, out to dinner, go shopping, go to concerts, go to family picnics, weddings, funerals, art exhibits, museums, go swimming, play sports, and some even go on vacation with their friends.
I also think an unmarried priest can give good advice that is just as good and maybe even better than a married priest. Being married doesn’t justify that now you have the ability to give good marriage advice.
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maryjk
Guest
Really? You can’t hide your contempt any better than that?
Married priests vs. “lonely” priests???
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bilop
Guest
Because it is allowed for a married man to be ordained a priest (like the ex-Anglicans), but it is not allowed for a Priest to marry.
Even if the Latin Church dispensed with the requirement for priestly celibacy altogether, they would still not allow priests to marry. The Eastern Churches have a married priesthood, but priests must marry before ordination.
God Bless
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feed_me
Guest
I have no contempt. I ment lonely by being celibate which I should of said, and struggling with those constant temptations of being single. But then again I was diverting my anger at singleness because I know the despairing feelings of being alone. It all depends upon the persons perspective and pov.Really? You can’t hide your contempt any better than that?
Married priests vs. “lonely” priests???
Don’t know if I could say that. It depends upon there state of being. We don’t know what they are thinking and feeling deep down. When they go home at night they could be having the thougths of wishing to spend their lives with somebody, on the surface it may not seem like it, but when no one else is around… or, they seen too many people go througth the whole deck of cards, and ended up with so much heart break that they choose not to want to go through that themselves. Can’t explain things sometimes.
I do understand where you are coming from on that. I do agree %100. But there is a big difference between giving up marriage voluntarly and being forced to give it up against your will and having it shoved down your thoat.
Then again I regress, but I’m seeing it from a different pov.
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TiggerS
Guest
I have been single chaste celibate for 30 years now and live alone- pockets of loneliness here and there possibly but nothing dramatic nor curshing and not often - and certainly no “despairing feelings” of loneliness. Mine is a chosen state in life as is celibacy in the priesthood. One consciously chooses it.
I certainly never experience “constant temptations” against celibacy nor chastity and if I did, I would be seeking spiritual and perhaps even psychological advice.
Situations probably depend on the individual and because my experience, and even those of close friends, is all the same does not therefore indicate that everyone has the same experience.
I doubt that crushing and despairing feelings of loneliness would occur overnight and “constant temptation” itself states an ongoing problem. Rather these would have a gradual onset and become consistent and the wise person seeks counselling. In the case of priest he would have a support system of some kind somewhere, or can seek same and/or he could ask to be laicized because he is not coping with the celibate state of life asked by his priesthood. The celibate chaste state as a way of life asks psychological maturity and one would anticipate in hpe this of one who had gone through the seminary system (or noviciate). The psychologically mature recognize when they are in some kind of trouble, and it can happen anywhere in life and be of any kind of problem, and seek assistance and advice.
I think, however, that possibly those who entered a seminar or even noviciate pre V2 certainly, may not have had the evidenced psychological and spiritual level of maturity asked prior to ordination and/or final vows nowadays. This was a mistake but not culpable as back then I think that the importance of psychological and spiritual maturity was not understood as we do today.
I think admitting to oneself that one does have a very real problem and then seeking counselling or advice from sound sources takes a level of humility as well as general psychological and spiritual maturity. We are human and faulted and problems can develop in life and at any point (none are immune) and wisdom (and humility) along with psychological and spiritual maturity clearly informs when the time has arrived to seek help and to do so.
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FCEGM
Guest
Since no man becomes a priest against his will your concern is not warranted.
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feed_me
Guest
I wasn’t saying becoming a Priest against his will, I am saying becoming celibate, and or having it forced down your throat against your will, which I believe is called incel (involuntary celibacy).
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Corki
Guest
Priests do not become celibate involuntarily. They answer a vocation that **includes **celibacy as part of the whole package. If a man wanted to serve the Church but not as a celibate, there are many other ministries available. That’s all part of the long discernment process that men who are seeking ordination go through.
And please stop saying this is forced down his throat. Not only is it rude but it disregards the thousands of men who have embraced the celibate life as priests, monks or brothers.
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TimothyH
Guest
I am single and celibate, and discerning a call to diaconate. If I am admitted into formation and ordained, I will remain celibate for life.
Am I not free to choose that life if it is what I want? No one will have shoved it down my throat. I will have prayed and thought long and hard about it for over eight years if I make that choice.
TiggerS’ post is wonderful.
-Tim-
Am I not free to choose that life if it is what I want? No one will have shoved it down my throat. I will have prayed and thought long and hard about it for over eight years if I make that choice.
TiggerS’ post is wonderful.
-Tim-
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TiggerS
Guest
Celibacy in the Catholic Latin Rite priesthood (as previous members state) is not involuntary.
Those who are accepted into training for the priesthood know well that a condition of the priesthood or ordained celibate diaconate is celibacy meaning lifelong celibacy. Nowadays certainly, those who do apply to be trained for the priesthood or ordained celibate diaconate are assessed for psychological and spiritual maturity prior to acceptance into these vocations. Nothing involuntary about celibacy in the priesthood nor celibate diaconate. It is freely and with understanding chosen by the candidate.To Timothy: Congratulations and many blessings, Timothy, on your possible vocation.
My apologies too for omitting to mention our ordained celibate deacons and those with a vocation/discerning to same in my previous post.
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TiggerS
Guest
This is very often a very important point. Those outside of Catholicism and our Faith, and its many gifts and blessings from Baptism into The Catholic Church and then all through our lives, very often cannot just comprehend the celibate chaste way of life. For many such persons and it is sad, their sexuality rules and they do not experience that interior freedom to choose between celibacy or a non celibate state of life such as The Sacrament of Marriage. There is a vast difference psychologically and spiritually to being enslaved/ruled by one’s sexuality (as expressed in a non celibate manner) and a vocation and call toThe Sacrament of Marriage. Those outside Catholicism sometimes, even often, cannot in any way understand nor comprehend that The Lord can and does grant the gift of lifelong celibacy. It is probably not the most common of gifts per head of population as it were, but still the many who do embrace the celibate chaste state and successfully and quite happily for their entire lives speaks to the very real existence of the gift in human experience. Another member did mention the many thousands of faithful and celibate priests, deacons and consecrated or dedicated lifestyles that do exist in The Church and in the celibate chaste state. Most often those in the celibate chaste state are finding Peace and Joy, happiness and fulfillment.
Is the celibate chaste state one long continuim of Peace etc.? No, such is probably extremely rare and not the most common human condition. We all without exemption have our ups and downs, problems and victories, positive times and negative times - and this is our human condition in the main - yet with all these factored in most often the chaste celibate person can happily state that he or she is happy and fulfilled in every way.
Are their exceptions? Of course there are. But these are the exceptions rather than the rule, the minority rather than the majority and facts attest to this in the case of chaste celibacy in the priesthood and other vocations in The Catholic Church.
Particularly perhaps in our day and again, it is sad, celibate chastity and for life in the various lifestyles in which it is embraced in The Catholic Church, including the priesthood, is definitely counter-cultural in modern society and not understood nor comprehended.
Jesus in His own times was counter-cultural and in most instances not understood as His human life unfolded. Eventually He paid the very highest price possible for the fact that He was counter-cultural to His own times - His society and even His own Jewish faith-profession beliefs as it was lived.
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HisIsTheCrown
Guest
Simple.
Who are you? - Christian.
What does it mean Christian ? - Follower of the Master, the Leader, the Boss, the AllWholeForever.
Christ was married ? - No.
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Jimmygill88
Guest
However it is undoubtedly a life against nature
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TiggerS
Guest
It just might be a life against human nature - our natural inclinations in our disordered state of original sin, but it is not a life against a nature raised by Baptism sustained by Grace, The Mass andT he Sacraments and coupled with a special gift of God to celibate chastity to those thus called - be it a transitory or be it permanent. To those called by God to marriage, there is the gift of married chastity.
We are counter-cultural and often not understood by our culture and times and can find it very hard to be understood even with much prayerful effort, or so it may seem to our human understanding. Ours is the role of the sower - to sow the seeds everywhere. All increase, germination and growth is God’s alone while ours might be the Graced by God human labour/effort. We give to Him all glory in all things, just as we do not become disccouraged (in hope) by apparent failure on the human type level. We have put our hand to the plough and do not look back. The Cross is our cherished symbol and not for nothing for out of apparent complete human failure by Jesus and His terrible death ,The Church grew and continued to grow out of the blood of martyrs as it were - and terrible times of persecution in the early Church. It was then a terrible death to be found to be a follower of Jesus.
We continue to see the great mystery of The Death and Resurrection of Jesus enacted and reflected everywhere and in all things - each with its season.
As St Paul points out, the gifts of The Holy Spirit to The Church are many and everywhere. My gifts are probably not your gifts, as your gifts are probably not mine. But all the gifts of The Holy Spirit are wherever God may ordain, and whatever God may ordain, and for the good of His Church and mankind.
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_24061967_sacerdotalis_en.html
SACERDOTALIS CAELIBATUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI
ON THE CELIBACY OF THE PRIEST
JUNE 24, 1967
This magnificent phenomenon bears testimony to an exceptional facet of the kingdom of God living in the midst of modern society, to which it renders humble and beneficial service as the “light of the world” and the “salt of the earth.” (7) We cannot withhold the expression of Our admiration; the spirit of Christ is certainly breathing here.
We are counter-cultural and often not understood by our culture and times and can find it very hard to be understood even with much prayerful effort, or so it may seem to our human understanding. Ours is the role of the sower - to sow the seeds everywhere. All increase, germination and growth is God’s alone while ours might be the Graced by God human labour/effort. We give to Him all glory in all things, just as we do not become disccouraged (in hope) by apparent failure on the human type level. We have put our hand to the plough and do not look back. The Cross is our cherished symbol and not for nothing for out of apparent complete human failure by Jesus and His terrible death ,The Church grew and continued to grow out of the blood of martyrs as it were - and terrible times of persecution in the early Church. It was then a terrible death to be found to be a follower of Jesus.
We continue to see the great mystery of The Death and Resurrection of Jesus enacted and reflected everywhere and in all things - each with its season.
As St Paul points out, the gifts of The Holy Spirit to The Church are many and everywhere. My gifts are probably not your gifts, as your gifts are probably not mine. But all the gifts of The Holy Spirit are wherever God may ordain, and whatever God may ordain, and for the good of His Church and mankind.
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_24061967_sacerdotalis_en.html
SACERDOTALIS CAELIBATUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI
ON THE CELIBACY OF THE PRIEST
JUNE 24, 1967
- The sum of these objections would appear to drown out the solemn and age-old voice of the pastors of the Church and of the masters of the spiritual life, and to nullify the living testimony of the countless ranks of saints and faithful ministers of God, for whom celibacy has been the object of the total and generous gift of themselves to the mystery of Christ, as well as its outward sign. But no, this voice, still strong and untroubled, is the voice not just of the past but of the present too. Ever intent on the realities of today, we cannot close our eyes to this magnificent, wonderful reality: that there are still today in God’s holy Church, in every part of the world where she exercises her beneficent influence, great numbers of her ministers—subdeacons, deacons, priests and bishops—who are living their life of voluntary and consecrated celibacy in the most exemplary way.
This magnificent phenomenon bears testimony to an exceptional facet of the kingdom of God living in the midst of modern society, to which it renders humble and beneficial service as the “light of the world” and the “salt of the earth.” (7) We cannot withhold the expression of Our admiration; the spirit of Christ is certainly breathing here.
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maryjk
Guest
Just because you are angry at being single, doesn’t mean every one is. Priest answer a call to the priesthood. They know they agreeing to be single. This isn’t thrust on them at the last moment.
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feed_me
Guest
I wasn’t talking about priests, I was mentioning about it in general (sorry that I don’t write my answers sometimes to be more understanding). Just look at the many forums (on the internet) where people say that they can’t find a person to live there life with. There is a bunch of threads on this site.
Some people just want to live a life where all they have to do is go to work, make a check, come home to wife and kids, and support them through thick and thin, but they don’t get that chance because for some odd reason they get robbed of it.
Having celibacy included in your service is no different then going to buy a phone service and having a hidden fee in your contract under the dotted line.
Btw, this is a reply for both people above me and below me.
**However it is undoubtedly a life against nature **
God built that into our nature, Priest or not. God called people in the OT to perform there task do there job, married of single, and they still did it. The only life against nature today is having being wed for life with kids, where today’s nature is constant hook ups and friends with benifits. Celibacy is not a rarity, nor a life against nature, it just goes against satans twisted way of life, same way with being married now for life.
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FCEGM
Guest
It’s quite different since no man approaches the Catholic priesthood, most particularly that of the Latin Church, without the understanding that the discipline of celibacy comes as part of what is expected of him.
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