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rr1213
Guest
How is taking a bible to church every Sunday constitute worship of the bible? If so, then a Catholic who brings his rosary beads to Mass every Sunday is, likewise, worshipping the beads. Of course, neither is true.
Former Protestants: Do some Protestants worship the Bible as an Idol?
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JoeyWarren
Guest
Who would get upset the most?
A. Asking a protestant to stop taking his Bible to Church?
or
B. Asking a Catholic to stop taking his Rosary to Mass?
Personal experience dictates A as the answer for me. You?
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rr1213
Guest
Depends on the person, Catholic or Protestant. I dare you to ask the same question over at the Traditional Catholic forum…my guess is that you’d have some VERY irate traditionalists if you told them not to bring their rosaries to church.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
You are probably right on that account. I’ll pass on asking them. Feel free to ask them yourself though.
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rr1213
Guest
No, I’ll leave that rock unturned. I think my point was made.
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b_justb
Guest
The Epistle of St. Paul to the Ephesians Chapter 6
In this commentary on Isaiah, St. Jerome insists that, “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” How much more Catholic does it get than St. Jerome?
I’m not feelin’ the love here people, let’s get it together.
Evangelicals view this passage from St. Paul as a mandate for Christian soldiers as spiritual warriors. When “the Word of God” is seen in Scripture they see that as "bible” where maybe most Catholics view is as “Christ.” If you can see things through the other person’s eyes it makes it easier to relate to the conclusions they come to, even if you disagree with them. Please, let’s stop attempting to put our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ in a bad light because they love the Written Word.
In this commentary on Isaiah, St. Jerome insists that, “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” How much more Catholic does it get than St. Jerome?
I’m not feelin’ the love here people, let’s get it together.
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ReflectHim
Guest
No more than catholics worship mary and statues of saints…
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Cat
Guest
I know there are some on this thread urging us to show love to Protestants who honor their Bibles.
As I said in my earlier post, there are quite a few Protestants who believe that The Bible, or Word of God IS Jesus, the Word of God.
This is wrong, and we are not showing “love” to not speak up when we meet up with this belief. Yes, many Protestants DON’T believe this, but MANY DO! (And I’m not talking “fringe” snake handlers, I’m talking evangelicals.)
In spite of the fact that each Protestant relies ultimately on the Holy Spirit to gain a correct interpretation of the Bible, there are many different individual interpretations of the Bible. Most Protestants will leave a church if the church teaches something different than THEY believe the Holy Spirit has led them to believe about the Bible.
This is difficult for Catholics to grasp, but its true. It happens often in Protestant churches. Over on another Protestant forum right now, there is a thread about leaving churches, and the biggest reason listed for leaving is that the churches start teaching something that is contrarty to the Word of God.
For my family, this “worship of the Bible” was devastating. The church we attended used the Bible–or at least their interpretation of it–to throw us out of the church and shun us. We had done nothing wrong–a woman pastor spread lies about us. (She was caught in a lie a year later and fired; turned out she was a pathological liar). But the BIBLE–or Jesus–was used to justify that cruel treatment of us.
In the same way, Christians use the Bible to justify belief in hurting homosexuals and even terrorizing abortion clinics.
I don’t think it shows “love” to encourage Protestants to continue this false adulation of the Bible. Yes, we should honor it, read it, study it. But to say that the Word of God (BIble) = the Word of God (Jesus) is wrong and dangerous, especially when there is no Church or Magisterium to interpret what the Word of God (Bible) or the Word of God (Jesus) really teaches. We need to be discerning when we talk to Protestants, and make sure that their respect for the Bible isn’t really worship of the Bible.
As I said in my earlier post, there are quite a few Protestants who believe that The Bible, or Word of God IS Jesus, the Word of God.
This is wrong, and we are not showing “love” to not speak up when we meet up with this belief. Yes, many Protestants DON’T believe this, but MANY DO! (And I’m not talking “fringe” snake handlers, I’m talking evangelicals.)
In spite of the fact that each Protestant relies ultimately on the Holy Spirit to gain a correct interpretation of the Bible, there are many different individual interpretations of the Bible. Most Protestants will leave a church if the church teaches something different than THEY believe the Holy Spirit has led them to believe about the Bible.
This is difficult for Catholics to grasp, but its true. It happens often in Protestant churches. Over on another Protestant forum right now, there is a thread about leaving churches, and the biggest reason listed for leaving is that the churches start teaching something that is contrarty to the Word of God.
For my family, this “worship of the Bible” was devastating. The church we attended used the Bible–or at least their interpretation of it–to throw us out of the church and shun us. We had done nothing wrong–a woman pastor spread lies about us. (She was caught in a lie a year later and fired; turned out she was a pathological liar). But the BIBLE–or Jesus–was used to justify that cruel treatment of us.
In the same way, Christians use the Bible to justify belief in hurting homosexuals and even terrorizing abortion clinics.
I don’t think it shows “love” to encourage Protestants to continue this false adulation of the Bible. Yes, we should honor it, read it, study it. But to say that the Word of God (BIble) = the Word of God (Jesus) is wrong and dangerous, especially when there is no Church or Magisterium to interpret what the Word of God (Bible) or the Word of God (Jesus) really teaches. We need to be discerning when we talk to Protestants, and make sure that their respect for the Bible isn’t really worship of the Bible.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
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Kevan
Guest
This thread has never really defined “idolatry,” but there’s a sustained effort to compare the Bible and saints/images. I don’t think it is legitimate. We don’t ask the Bible to protect us or heal our loved ones. We don’t bury a copy in our yard to make our house sell. We don’t lock one in the refrigerator and threaten it unless our husband finds a job. We don’t set one on the ailing washing machine in hopes that the old unit won’t break down.
It is legitimate to define “idolatry” and then show that a certain practice is or is not such, (although the definition is sure to be challenged). But it is not legitimate to say Protestants do with their Bibles what Catholics do with their images. It just isn’t so.
It is legitimate to define “idolatry” and then show that a certain practice is or is not such, (although the definition is sure to be challenged). But it is not legitimate to say Protestants do with their Bibles what Catholics do with their images. It just isn’t so.
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Cat
Guest
Kevan, I’m not sure I agree with you entirely. I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years. I’ve seen Protestants use their Bible as a “lucky charm” or “talisman.”
In fact, my husband and I brought up this issue in a Sunday School class that we were part of. Although some people took offense, many people said that they believed the sword of the Word of God had the power to protect us from harm, and that they always kept an open Bible in their homes to ward off Satan.
It’s subtle, and I’m sure that many Protestants would say that it’s not the actual BOOK that wards off Satan, it’s what in the Book. But I think that just as some Catholics are (wrongly) superstitious when it comes to Mary and the saints, I think some Protestants are superstitious when it comes to the Bible.
In fact, my husband and I brought up this issue in a Sunday School class that we were part of. Although some people took offense, many people said that they believed the sword of the Word of God had the power to protect us from harm, and that they always kept an open Bible in their homes to ward off Satan.
It’s subtle, and I’m sure that many Protestants would say that it’s not the actual BOOK that wards off Satan, it’s what in the Book. But I think that just as some Catholics are (wrongly) superstitious when it comes to Mary and the saints, I think some Protestants are superstitious when it comes to the Bible.
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Kevan
Guest
True. I’ve seen some similar instances, but they’re hard to find among Protestants because it contradicts our doctrine. Superstition is hardwired into fallen human nature. The instances you cite are (1) just over the edge and (2) severely rebuked by all but the stupidest of teachers. The instances I cite, however, are (1) profoundly antibiblical and (2) never forbidden by the priests, so far as the Catholics I’ve questioned have told me, and therefore extremely common.
I believe that we can find an idiot here and there in any religious body, but in general the practices of Catholics and Protestants are not comparable in this area at all.
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Grace_Seeker
Guest
Which would make Peter a bigamist.
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Grace_Seeker
Guest
Would you continue to worship in a Catholic congregation where what was taught was contrary to the Bible and the traditions of the Church?
“Yes, I’m a Christian but I attend a church that teaches contrary to my beliefs.”
How ludicrous!! And before you say that would never happen in a Catholic Church, think again. History is filled with examples from Arius, to Luther, to those who condone homosexuality today.
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MariaG
Guest
Respectfully Kevan,
It is not extremely common that Catholic Christians come to rely on things as superstitious objects. Catholics DO use things to help us focus our thoughts and prayers to God, but that is very different than from idolatry. It is very similar to Protestants who find it easier to focus there thoughts and prayers when they hold onto their bible. I know many like this yet would never think they were worshiping their bible.
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Cat
Guest
Grace Seeker,
I agree that if a Catholic parish was teaching stuff that was contradictory to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, that I would take action.
I would contact the Bishop and let him know what was happening. In our diocese, this would get results. I’ve seen it happen in my own parish with just a small infraction (a variation in the liturgy that one of the priests was doing). Our Bishop is extremely conservative and doesn’t mess around.
If the Bishop of my diocese was not responsive, I would appeal to the Vatican itself.
IF the Church authorities pronounced that I was wrong, and that the church WAS teaching proper Scripture and Tradition, then I would repent, confess, receive absolution for my affrontery, and work to bring myself into compliance with the teachings of my Church.
So you see, there are other options open to Catholics than just leaving a parish.
I have heard of Catholics who begin worshipping at a different parish while the Bishop is working to straighten things out at the erring parish. I would certainly go along with this if there were children or teenagers who could be damaged by the false teaching. Also, I think that if I continued to attend an erring Catholic Church, I would try to attend at least a few masses each week at a sound Catholic Church, and also work to stay involved with sound Catholic Bible studies.
I’ve seen quite a few Protestants leave their churches because of “unScriptural teachings.” I myself have done so. In recent years, many Protestants that I know have left churches when they hired women pastors. My family left a Protestant church for that reason.
However, I’ve also seen many Protestants leave churches because of marriage, divorce, and remarriage issues. Specifically, I’ve seen Protestants leave their church because they were not allowed to teach or be elected to a leadership position because they were either divorced or divorced/remarried.
I have several books about MDR, and it’s amazing how every one of them has a different interpretation of the Bible about these issues. One book by IV Press presents four Biblical viewpoints, totally different, about marriage, divorce, and remarriage. One of the viewpoints is that divorce is NEVER permitted, ever ever. Another viewpoint is that since God Himself was divorced, He allows divorce and remarriage. Another viewpoint is that divorce and remarriage are God’s way of healing people. etc.
So with fear and trembling, I will say that many Protestants leave a church because they can’t get their way, and they use the Bible to prove that “their way” is the “true way” and that their church is in error.
Thank God that I can trust the Authority of the Catholic Church and that I don’t need to come up with my own personal interpretation of the Bible!
I agree that if a Catholic parish was teaching stuff that was contradictory to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, that I would take action.
I would contact the Bishop and let him know what was happening. In our diocese, this would get results. I’ve seen it happen in my own parish with just a small infraction (a variation in the liturgy that one of the priests was doing). Our Bishop is extremely conservative and doesn’t mess around.
If the Bishop of my diocese was not responsive, I would appeal to the Vatican itself.
IF the Church authorities pronounced that I was wrong, and that the church WAS teaching proper Scripture and Tradition, then I would repent, confess, receive absolution for my affrontery, and work to bring myself into compliance with the teachings of my Church.
So you see, there are other options open to Catholics than just leaving a parish.
I have heard of Catholics who begin worshipping at a different parish while the Bishop is working to straighten things out at the erring parish. I would certainly go along with this if there were children or teenagers who could be damaged by the false teaching. Also, I think that if I continued to attend an erring Catholic Church, I would try to attend at least a few masses each week at a sound Catholic Church, and also work to stay involved with sound Catholic Bible studies.
I’ve seen quite a few Protestants leave their churches because of “unScriptural teachings.” I myself have done so. In recent years, many Protestants that I know have left churches when they hired women pastors. My family left a Protestant church for that reason.
However, I’ve also seen many Protestants leave churches because of marriage, divorce, and remarriage issues. Specifically, I’ve seen Protestants leave their church because they were not allowed to teach or be elected to a leadership position because they were either divorced or divorced/remarried.
I have several books about MDR, and it’s amazing how every one of them has a different interpretation of the Bible about these issues. One book by IV Press presents four Biblical viewpoints, totally different, about marriage, divorce, and remarriage. One of the viewpoints is that divorce is NEVER permitted, ever ever. Another viewpoint is that since God Himself was divorced, He allows divorce and remarriage. Another viewpoint is that divorce and remarriage are God’s way of healing people. etc.
So with fear and trembling, I will say that many Protestants leave a church because they can’t get their way, and they use the Bible to prove that “their way” is the “true way” and that their church is in error.
Thank God that I can trust the Authority of the Catholic Church and that I don’t need to come up with my own personal interpretation of the Bible!
H
Hellisreal
Guest
“God himself is divorced”?
I dont think I ever heard that before. What in the world does that mean in simple terms?
I dont think I ever heard that before. What in the world does that mean in simple terms?
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Kevan
Guest
The kinds of things I mentioned seem extremely common. And I’m an American living in the South. From what travellers have told me, such behavior only increases when Catholics in most other countries are observed.
We went around and around on this topic a year or two ago when I raised heck about the St. Joseph House-Selling Kit that gets sold right on the church property itself. Some responders were quick to disavow it. Others defended it. (I’ve heard Karl Keating disavow it.)
Everyone from a practicing Catholic family has loved ones who have believed and practiced these things. I know a Catholic lady, perfectly intelligent, who shut up an image of St. Joseph in a nearly-empty refrigerator, telling him (yes, him) that he wasn’t coming out until her husband got a job. “And, do you know, he was hired that very week!” Someone here responded to that anecdote by saying that her behavior was an act of devotion and therefore legitimate.
Where is the priest who will state publicly and plainly that such bunkum is not Catholic and is contrary to the Christian religion and is NOT to be engaged in by his hearers? Hah! Yet St. Paul commanded a pastor “rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.”
I agree that folks are folks. What is tempting to one is tempting to all, and superstition is hardwired in fallen human nature. One may find Protestants, if he looks hard enough, who think that an open Bible keeps the devil away (whatever that would mean). I myself have never seen such a person, but I’m confident that they’re out there.
Where I disagree is with the idea that there is a sort of equivalency generally between the behavior of Catholics and Protestants in this area. From my vantage point, I’d say that they are two different worlds.
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Kevan
Guest
It probably refers to parables that Old Testament prophets used once, where God said “I married Israel and Judah, but they’ve committed adultery and left me, so I’ve divorced them.” Trying to literalize it makes God a bigamist before he becomes a divorcee. Then if you go on and realize that Israel and Judah are called his children, now you’ve got incest as well.“God himself is divorced”? I dont think I ever heard that before. What in the world does that mean in simple terms?
It’s just very bad exegesis.
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