Former Protestants: Do some Protestants worship the Bible as an Idol?

[ALLFORHIM]

In my experience, I’ve never known anyone, protestant or otherwise, to worship the Bible. Fundementalist/evangelical Christians hold the Bible to be very dear as it’s the only thing they have to get them to God. No church, as Catholics understand the church, no sacraments, no saving baptism, no saints interceding etc. Just the Bible. It’s all they have and they cling to it as someone washed overboard (perhaps from the barque of Peter?) would cling to driftwood. Not that I’m equating the Bible to driftwood… I understand it’s a faulty metaphor.

Im guessing you dont know much about our theology.Evangelical that is

If you did you would not be making these statements.

 

[jmcrae]

So then are you saying we (who are in Christ) are Saints?

Im anxiously awaiting your answer.:bounce:

Yes, everyone who is in Christ is a Saint. (Of course part of being in Christ means being in His Body, the Church, right? We can’t be “in Christ” while remaining outside of His Body, can we? )

 

[Singinbeauty]

I can pray to God, talk to God, sing to God, read the Bible, do the Divine Office, meditate and listen for His voice, etc., anywhere, and any time.

Worship is not the only activity that we can do with God - there are also all of these other wonderful things that we can do, too - in addition to worshipping Him every single day of the week at Mass, as well.

Just curious, how do you worship God in your car? What do you use as your Sacrifice, and where do you put it? (Do you burn it in the ashtray?)

Main Entry: worship
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -shipped also -shiped; -ship·ping also -ship·ing
transitive verb
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion
intransitive verb : to perform or take part in worship or an act of worship
synonym see REVERE

• wor·ship·per or wor·ship·er noun

Both of these definitions say nothing about sacrifice. Sometimes I just honor God by not yelling and screaming at the ‘people’ (polite term) on the road and cutting them off just ‘show them’…

To me, singing is a BIG part of my worship to God. So I consider the singing I do in my car a part of my worship. I pray to Him in my car… you get the idea. I am a big believer that in all we do it should be as worship to God.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes, everyone who is in Christ is a Saint. (Of course part of being in Christ means being in His Body, the Church, right? We can’t be “in Christ” while remaining outside of His Body, can we? )

Absolutely!! I am part of the universal church Christ’s body because Im a believer as defined in the bible. :extrahappy: Thanks be to God

 

[Singinbeauty]

Hi,
Thank you for your definition.
I was wondering how the CC reconciles what you just said with what Paul says in Romans 12
Living Sacrifices
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his**faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

Love
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Verse one is pretty clear(well to me anyway) and the rest of the chapter pretty much tells us how we are to sacrifice ourselves.

So when I am doing God’s Will for me I am worshipping Him. I also believe that when I keep my mouth shut instead of spewing something bad, I am worshipping Christ because I sacrificed my fleshly desire to act poorly and did not cave to sin but conquered sin(in that moment anyway ) By Romans 12 definition, I sacrifice and worship God many many many times a day all day long. :extrahappy:

What does the CC say about this?**
ALLFORHIM… You, my friend are awesome! Thank you for putting this into words… it is EXACTLY what I meant…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Main Entry: worship
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -shipped also -shiped; -ship·ping also -ship·ing
transitive verb
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion
intransitive verb : to perform or take part in worship or an act of worship
synonym see REVERE

• wor·ship·per or wor·ship·er noun

Both of these definitions say nothing about sacrifice. Sometimes I just honor God by not yelling and screaming at the ‘people’ (polite term) on the road and cutting them off just ‘show them’…

To me, singing is a BIG part of my worship to God. So I consider the singing I do in my car a part of my worship. I pray to Him in my car… you get the idea. I am a big believer that in all we do it should be as worship to God.

Im with ya on that Singing:thumbsup: Of course my singing is better left in the car. Only God can handle listening to it.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

ALLFORHIM… You, my friend are awesome! Thank you for putting this into words… it is EXACTLY what I meant…

I dont think I have ever been called awesome before. Thank you for the high compliment.

I give all the Glory to God because as soon as I read the post about sacrifices Romans popped into my head. Just another moment of the HS working through me.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Im with ya on that Singing:thumbsup: Of course my singing is better left in the car. Only God can handle listening to it.

You know, I just wish for a moment that we could see ourselves as God sees us… and others. Maybe then the bickering would end and we could focus our attention on God and not what we think is incomplete worship of Him… *sigh…

 

[Singinbeauty]

I dont think I have ever been called awesome before. Thank you for the high compliment.

I give all the Glory to God because as soon as I read the post about sacrifices Romans popped into my head. Just another moment of the HS working through me.

How wonderful is that? Even if some catholics hate it when a protestant uses the Bible to prove something it is the BEST way to go…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I disagree with you there. No doubt Catholics do worship at the Mass and, indeed, the Mass may be the preeminent means by which Catholics worship. Still, worship is a function of the mind, body and spirit and is not dependent on there being present a priest, congregation and sacrifice. Or, for that matter, that the person worship the True God. Certainly, both the Bible and history in general are replete with examples of people worshipping that which they should not worship. The definition you are offering is too limited.

​

 

[ALLFORHIM]

How wonderful is that? Even if some catholics hate it when a protestant uses the Bible to prove something it is the BEST way to go…

AMEN!!!

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You know, I just wish for a moment that we could see ourselves as God sees us… and others. Maybe then the bickering would end and we could focus our attention on God and not what we think is incomplete worship of Him… *sigh…

I know it is our sinful nature that provokes us to be this way.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Actually, it is, since that is the very definition of “worship.” We are given many examples of worship in the Old Testament, and they all contain at least a priest and a sacrifice - in some instances, there was no congregation, or rather, the congregation was absent - in Abraham’s case, when he worshipped God for the first time, he made the sacrifice of the covenant on behalf of people who weren’t even born yet - his descendants.

All with priests (or priestesses) and various different kinds of sacrifices. The first example of worship in the Old Testament is Abel’s meat sacrifice, being contrasted with Cain’s grain sacrifice.

I think it’s possible that you are mistaking prayer or other forms of communication with God for worship.

We can pray at any time, and we can also communicate with God in other ways (through Scripture reading, meditation, etc.) at any time - these forms of communication are not forms of worship, though. Worship is only one of the possible forms of communication with God, and the only one that is absolutely required by Him.

Private prayer by individuals is not the same as the organised corporate sacramental worship of the Church - but how does that make it any less really worship ? It is as truly an acknowledgement of God, as the Mass (say) or the Liturgy of the Hours.​

All liturgical acts are acts of worship - that doesn’t make them the only acts of worship.

If it’s not - if when we “say our prayers” we are not worshipping God - how are we able to “pray always”, as commanded by Dominical authority, no less ? We can’t do that if the only real worship is the liturgical kind, because we cannot always be present at the Liturgical acts of the Church. Most of us are not enclosed religious - so if we are to “pray always”, most of us must make our everyday lives our prayer. We can’t all be Carmelite nuns - but we can all seek to glorify God in thought, word, & deed; & surely that is worship - for what would the Liturgy be, if it did not have that sort of attitude at its heart ? And attitudes don’t require outward forms to exist - the outward forms, exist because of the attitudes. ##

 

[DL82]

I’ve never seen people ‘worship’ the Bible, as that would involve praying to it or considering it able to perform miracles on its’ own, etc.

However, I have seen a tendency in many Protestant churches to limit the operation of God to only working through His written Word, or to assume that everything in the Bible only refers back to the Bible.

e.g. some Protestant churches interpret ALL the passages about communion, e.g. John 6, to be about eating the flesh of the Word, i.e. taking the written word into yourself, and drinking His blood, i.e. meditating upon the written word. Also, many churches would only see passages like “the Word of God is alive and active…” to refer to the Bible, and not also to Jesus. There is also a circularity about passages like Jesus saying “if you love me, obey my commandments” in the context of sola fide salvation theology - because obeying the commandment is simply having faith, therefore “if you love me, obey my commandments” becomes “if you love me, read the Bible”.

There is a tendency to believe that everything in the Bible just refers to the Bible itself:
Body of Christ = Bible (Word of God)
Blood of Christ = Bible (Word of God)
Baptism = believing the Bible
Holy Spirit = Bible (Wisdom of God)
Commandment = Bible reading
Obedience = understanding the Bible
Evangelism = preaching the Bible
Faith = believing the Bible
Hope = believing the Bible
Love = loving the Bible
Wisdom = knowing the Bible
Praise = Bible reading
Prayer = believing the Bible
etc. etc.

 

[jmcrae]

If it’s not - if when we “say our prayers” we are not worshipping God - how are we able to “pray always”, as commanded by Dominical authority, no less ?

We can certainly pray always without always worshipping. Worshipping and praying are two different actions. We should pray while we are worshipping, but we can certainly pray without worshipping.

If praying and worshipping were the same thing, then every time you pray to Mary, you would be committing sin by worshipping her, right? So, obviously praying and worshipping are not the same thing.

 

[Fred_4]

Im guessing you dont know much about our theology.Evangelical that is

If you did you would not be making these statements.

I think I’m pretty familiar with evangelical christianity. What specifically are you referring to in my comments?

 

[twosweetgirls]

Yes. I’ve been a part of some evangelical churches that place so much emphasis on speaking in tongues and OBEYING the pastor that you’d totally think it was worship.

 

[Singinbeauty]

If praying and worshipping were the same thing, then every time you pray to Mary, you would be committing sin by worshipping her, right? So, obviously praying and worshipping are not the same thing.

Ahhhhhh… Now THIS is something to talk about. You see, this is the reason that many protestants have issue with prayting to Mary and the saints. Because we DO view prayer as a form of worship… When I pray to God it is not just ‘something to do’ it is a form of worshipping Him because as we see in the definition…

Main Entry: worship
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -shipped also -shiped; -ship·ping also -ship·ing
transitive verb
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion
intransitive verb : to perform or take part in worship or an act of worship
synonym see REVERE

Each of these definitions corrolate to what prayer is… to honor or reverence God Almighty in knowing that He is the One who answers those prayers AND to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, AND devotion. Our prayers to God should encompass each of these ALWAYS.

 

[jmcrae]

Ahhhhhh… Now THIS is something to talk about. You see, this is the reason that many protestants have issue with prayting to Mary and the saints.

Because they don’t realize that the Biblical view of worship always involves the element of sacrifice. They prayed and read the Scriptures in the synagogues, but they worshipped in the Temple - and when they were exiled in Babylon, the most painful thing for them was their inability to worship God - even though obviously they continued to pray to Him, to sing their songs, and to gather together in assemblies to hear the Word of God proclaimed by their prophets and from the Books of Moses.

Because we DO view prayer as a form of worship… When I pray to God it is not just ‘something to do’ it is a form of worshipping Him because as we see in the definition…

Main Entry: worship
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -shipped also -shiped; -ship·ping also -ship·ing
transitive verb
1 : to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2 : to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion
intransitive verb : to perform or take part in worship or an act of worship
synonym see REVERE

Which is a Protestant definition - don’t confuse the dictionary with God’s revealed Word.

Each of these definitions corrolate to what prayer is… to honor or reverence God Almighty in knowing that He is the One who answers those prayers AND to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, AND devotion. Our prayers to God should encompass each of these ALWAYS.

Yes, worship does, or ought to, contain all these things in addition to the elements of priest, congregation, and sacrifice. But all these things are also possible to have by themselves, without worship, as well.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Because they don’t realize that the Biblical view of worship always involves the element of sacrifice. They prayed and read the Scriptures in the synagogues, but they worshipped in the Temple - and when they were exiled in Babylon, the most painful thing for them was their inability to worship God - even though obviously they continued to pray to Him, to sing their songs, and to gather together in assemblies to hear the Word of God proclaimed by their prophets and from the Books of Moses.

As ALLFORHIM so eloquently put it… See Romans 12:1

1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship.

You don’t have to have a priest there in that verse do you?

Which is a Protestant definition - don’t confuse the dictionary with God’s revealed Word.

Well, then what is it going to be? I have had many catholics use the dictionary to explain prayer as just a way of ASKING someone to do something why can’t I use the dictionary to explain WORSHIP. You can’t have it both ways. There aren’t protestant and catholic dictionaries… If you can use the dictionary so can I…

Yes, worship does, or ought to, contain all these things in addition to the elements of priest, congregation, and sacrifice. But all these things are also possible to have by themselves, without worship, as well.

See Romans 12:1 - There is no priest in this verse and this describes the most Holy ways of worship. Our SPIRITUAL act of worship. The sacrifice of ourselves for Him is our greatest form of worship. This does not only happen in a church confined in those 4 walls. To confine God there is putting Him in a box… God is bigger than any box you put Him in.