Former Questions Please share with us why?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PJM
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Todd520 said:
Elvis,
Would you provide a link to this rule?
It must be a principle of Roman Catholic hermeneutics since I thought hermeneutics was complex and somewhat controversial (like interpretation in general)
Click to expand...
Let me approach this from a very simple and basic view:
Did Jesus choose you or any of the multitudes as an Apostle other than the 12?
Did Jesus share the Last Supper with ALL of his followers?
Did Jesus tell the multitudes that they had the power to bind and loose (Matt 16:19, 18:18, John 20:23)?
Did Jesus tell anybody other that the 72 that when people listen to them or reject them they listened to and rejected HIM (Luke 10:16)?
Did he leave instructions through the Holy spirit for all of us – or just to the apostles (Acts 1:2)? The Bible doesn’t even say what he told them.
The answer to ALL of these questions is a resounding, “NO.”
You must first begin with what is written down and use logic and CONTEXT. That is why Jesus left the Church to us with which he endowed ALL of his authority.
 
Elvis,
Since you did not provide a link or proper reference, I assume this is not a formal principle of Catholic Hermeneutics? 🤷
I don’t feel the logic you did provide supported your claim
Originally Posted by elvisman
Here is a little rule about hermeneutics:
When Jesus is speaking to the masses - he is speaking to ALL of us.
When he is speaking to and giving instructions to his Apostles and close disciples - he is speaking to the Church leaders.
Click to expand...
Todd520 said:
Elvis,
Would you provide a link to this rule?
It must be a principle of Roman Catholic hermeneutics since I thought hermeneutics was complex and somewhat controversial (like interpretation in general)
Click to expand...
 
Todd520 said:
Elvis,
Since you did not provide a link or proper reference, I assume this is not a formal principle of Catholic Hermeneutics? 🤷
I don’t feel the logic you did provide supported your claim
Click to expand...
**Of course you don’t - otherwise, that would make me right and you couldn’t deal with that. :rolleyes:

Sometimes, I think you’d rather wallow in ignorance rather than accept the truth because the truth is too* “Catholic”.***

Then again - sometimes it’s just because you’d rather remain sturdy in your anti-Catholicism . . .
 
elvisman said:
No - you’re outside the Universal Body of Christ because you have rejected it (Luke 10:16).
Click to expand...
God would have to die for you to decide who is and who isn’t part of the universal church Jesus founded and paid for by His Blood.

However, if God were to die, all would stop existing you you’d loose out.
 
Dokimas said:
God would have to die for you to decide who is and who isn’t part of the universal church Jesus founded and paid for by His Blood.

However, if God were to die, all would stop existing you you’d loose out.
Click to expand...
The Body of Christ is the Church.
Jesus established only ONE Church. He had nothing to do with the splintering that is the tens of thousands of Protestant denominations that exist today. If he had - he would be nothing but a hypocrite for praying for the unity of his church in John 17 - that they remain ONE.
 
Karamazov said:
Why did you have to do this? Sorry for asking but I’m totally new to Catholicism and I’m currently learning about it from books and forums (like this one).
Click to expand...
Because an annullment is not a given. It has to be investigated to make sure that there was truly something in the bond of marriage was defective, and that something was missing at the time of their marriage that kept it from being a full union in the eyes of God. An annulment doesn’t deny that there was a marriage per se, but that something in the sacramental character was lacking. Not every annullment application is approved. While it appears not to be so for that poster…from what I’ve heard…many people can find this process healing.
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
Because an annullment is not a given. It has to be investigated to make sure that there was truly something in the bond of marriage was defective, and that something was missing at the time of their marriage that kept it from being a full union in the eyes of God. An annulment doesn’t deny that there was a marriage per se, but that something in the sacramental character was lacking. Not every annullment application is approved. While it appears not to be so for that poster…from what I’ve heard…many people can find this process healing.
Click to expand...
This sounds very invasive. I’m divorced. I married when I was far too young and have been divorced for over 10 years now (I’m 33). If I decided to ever marry again, and was a Catholic, would I have to dig up a very painful past - with an estranged woman who all but abandoned her children to start a new life somewhere - just to satisfy the Church’s demands?
 
Karamazov said:
This sounds very invasive. I’m divorced. I married when I was far too young and have been divorced for over 10 years now (I’m 33). If I decided to ever marry again, and was a Catholic, would I have to dig up a very painful past - with an estranged woman who all but abandoned her children to start a new life somewhere - just to satisfy the Church’s demands?
Click to expand...
**Actually - it is not to “satisfy the Church’s demands” so much as it is an attempt to determine whether or not a Sacramental marriage ever took place. It is for your benefit. **

Marrying somebody else while you’re still married in the eys of God to your “former” spouse is to live in grave sin. An anullment investigation could determine if you were free to marry again.

Remember - God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16) and intended for marriage to be a lifetime covenant. Civil divorce is a precept of man - not God.
 
elvisman said:
Here is a little rule about hermeneutics:
When Jesus is speaking to the masses - he is speaking to ALL of us.
When he is speaking to and giving instructions to his Apostles and close disciples - he is speaking to the Church leaders.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree. Jesus was speaking to the 72 who then spoke to hundreds who then spoke to more hundreds and down through the years the universal Church is quite large and not all contained in just the Catholic denomination,
 
Araninski said:
Wow you certainly know the heart of every person.

Why did I left the Catholic Church? Well, every Sunday , I would go to the Mass, so Mass starts ,we give thanks to Jesus one time, then proceed to give thanks to Mary about 5 times, we worship God, for about 1 minute, read one book from the OT for about 1 minute, then sing one psalm for 1 minute, we read one passage from a Pauline Letter for about 1 minute , we read one passage from a Gospel for about 2 minutes. So the sermon starts, the “Father” explains the sermon (that BTW is not so good, seems as if he doesn’t prepares enough, but who knows…) for about 10 minutes,offering time 1 minute, Eucharist time lasts for other 10 minutes. As soon as Eucharist time ends everybody will just leave (without the Mass ending),announcements, some more talking. Ending worship song for about 20 seconds.

So , yes this is the sad story of every Sunday I went to the church, everyone will just rush in, so that everybody can eat and drink the body and blood of our Lord and after that leave. Why don’t they just offer Eucharist at the beginning. Cold fast-rushed worship, cold fast-rushed sermon, Eucharist. This is the strategy the church uses to maintain its member attendance I guess, so that people won’t get bored.

So then I started to question, if the Eucharist is really the body and blood of Jesus, then why after receiving it,people would leave like, if they didn’t wanted anything else, after that people fighting at the parking lots(…).

Every Sunday people come in the same way , eat the Eucharist and bye bye. Then when I did discovered (this is my belief no offense intended to what you believe), that the body and blood of Jesus are spiritual food and drink, I discovered how to eat it and drink it. So I no longer believe as the Catholic Church teaches so I can’t be a part of the Catholic Church, that would be hypocrisy. Nonetheless, I still admire the CC for the work it has done, and I don’t think it is “wrong” maybe innocently (like the Indulgences) , just that some of their teachings are misleading and can cause more harm than well.

I am much more better at the church I am in right now. Worship lasts for about one hour, sermon for about 45 minutes, Lord’s Supper, as He commanded it. And again praise and worship our Lord for 30 minutes. There are many testimonies, many youth groups,many activities, preachers, and empowers people to preach to people without God, hunger for the saving of the souls that is. I got to admit it, sometimes is boring, but nevertheless my faith is strong, and I keep on worshiping my God, Yahweh.

God bless
Click to expand...
Hi, just read this post. We attend a Free Methodist church, and the above rings the same bell. The only thing i feel is lacking is more time is needed to spent on the Eucharist.
I have never heard such strong teaching in any other church.
For what its worth.
God bless
Ric
 
PJM said:
Dear Brother Roy,

You cannot hold this position and be a practicing Christian much less a practicing Catholic. The FIFTH COMMANDMENT forbids murder.

That my dear friend is NOT the Pope, NOT the Church but God Himself.

You would do your soul a favor to listen.

God remains always in charge.

Love and prayers,
Pat
Click to expand...
If the fifth commandment prohibits all murder, then all Christians should be pacifists.

It is very clear that, from his teachings, Jesus was a pacifist. He preached non-resistance.
 
schaick said:
Yes I agree. Jesus was speaking to the 72 who then spoke to hundreds who then spoke to more hundreds and down through the years the universal Church is quite large and not all contained in just the Catholic denomination,
Click to expand...
And that’s where your wrong.

Jesus gave specific instructions to the 72 He told THEM - not the multitudes, "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

Remember - Jesus established ONE Church. If you can show me in Scripture that he established more than ONE - I’ll leave the Catholic Church today.
If you can show me in Scripture that he never intended there to be only ONE Church - I’ll join your church.

Lastly - calling the Church a denomination makes about as much sense as calling Ford Motor Comany a product like their vehicles, the “Taurus” or the “Ranger”. For****d is the company, Taurus and Ranger are the products.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination - it is the Church. All others are divorced factions from that original Church.
 
1234 said:
If the fifth commandment prohibits all murder, then all Christians should be pacifists.

It is very clear that, from his teachings, Jesus was a pacifist. He preached non-resistance.
Click to expand...
WHERE do you get that idea from? The idea that Jesus was a pacifist is a fallacy, perpetuated by those who don’t know the Scriptures.
Matt. 10:34-36** tells us that Jesus said: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’”**
In Luke 22:35-36, Jesus again proves that he is no pacifist: “He said to them, “When I sent you forth without a money bag or a sack or sandals, were you in need of anything?”
“No, nothing,” they replied. He said to them, "But now one who has a money bag should take it, and likewise a sack, and one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.”**
In Rev. 19:15, we read about Jesus. It says: "Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty."
Finally – not all killing is murder. If it was – God himself would have been breaking his own commandment when he sent Moses and Joshua and David into battle. That’s whay the commandment reads – “You shall not MURDER” not, “You shall not KILL”.
Don’t forget what Ecclesiastes 3:1-3 tells us:
“There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens. ***
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant. ***
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to tear down, and a time to build.”
 
elvisman said:
And that’s where your wrong.

Jesus gave specific instructions to the 72 He told THEM - not the multitudes, "Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

Remember - Jesus established ONE Church. If you can show me in Scripture that he established more than ONE - I’ll leave the Catholic Church today.
If you can show me in Scripture that he never intended there to be only ONE Church - I’ll join your church.

Lastly - calling the Church a denomination makes about as much sense as calling Ford Motor Comany a product like their vehicles, the “Taurus” or the “Ranger”. Ford is the company, Taurus and Ranger are the products.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination - it is the Church. All others are divorced factions from that original Church.
Click to expand...
The Apostles passed on the GOOD NEWS of Jesus and what we need to do for our salvation. That information is now available to just about everyone by now through the Holy Bible and the writings of the early Church Fathers.

We are all disciples:
** Matthew 28**
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age

I never said that Jesus built more then one Church. There is only one Church that Jesus built and every trinitarian Christian is a part of that one Church.
 
schaick said:
The Apostles passed on the GOOD NEWS of Jesus and what we need to do for our salvation. That information is now available to just about everyone by now through the Holy Bible and the writings of the early Church Fathers.

We are all disciples:
Matthew 28
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age

I never said that Jesus built more then one Church. There is only one Church that Jesus built and every trinitarian Christian is a part of that one Church.
Click to expand...
We are all disciples but we are NOT all Apostles.
Jesus gave the great commission to the Apostles - the leaders of the Church. That’s why we read that the number at the time was 11 (because Judas was dead).
Tell me somthing - how man people have YOU baptized? I haven’t baptized any either. Does that mean that I am not doing the will of God and therefore violating Matt. 28:19? No - it means that I have my station in God’s plan and the Church hierarchy has theirs.
 
elvisman said:
We are all disciples but we are NOT all Apostles.
Jesus gave the great commission to the Apostles - the leaders of the Church. That’s why we read that the number at the time was 11 (because Judas was dead).
**Tell me somthing - how man people have YOU **baptized? I haven’t baptized any either. Does that mean that I am not doing the will of God and therefore violating Matt. 28:19? No - it means that I have my station in God’s plan and the Church hierarchy has theirs.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that for Catholics the following is not the great commission?
Matthew 28
**The Great Commission **
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I have been in on the baptism of a couple infants and baptized one myself.
 
TedDC said:
Not necessarily true. In my case, learning more about the faith brought about a realization that I don’t believe many of its essential tenets.
Click to expand...
Do you want to say more about what those are? If you already did so, please excuse the question. I am a little behind on the thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top