Former SDA now Catholic

[MarysRoses]

I became disatisfied with SDA teachings while attending an SDA college in the early 80s. For years I avoided discussion with SDAs other than close family (only because those discussions were unavoidable). In what few discussions came about, a point many Adventists tried to make, was that attitudes have ‘changed’, adventism has ‘matured’ and that many of the issues the led to my leaving are no longer around.

Well, things do change, the internet made discussion both more accessible and more anonymous, so I started conversations. (anonymity is a big deal when you have a lot of 3rd and 4th generation Adventists in the family, many of them working for their denomination.)

What I have found here and in other forums around the internet, is that not much has changed from what I can see. It is maybe packaged differently, prettier wrappings, more rounded corners and extra padding around the sharp edges… but I can’t see that anything has really changed.

I have a list, but as its best to deal with one thing at a time in a thread, i’m going to start with one of the first things (out of many) that began to push me out of my comfort zone to consider that maybe as an Adventist I wasn’t following the Truth after all.

As I came to the Adventist school as an upperclassman transfer, I had a great many religion courses to take that were required classes but of course were not available at the state university I had attended. I had 12 religion credits that first semester. Four classes. Each class had a different style, but the substance was the same: “Catholicism is not Christian becuase they believe…” “The Catholic Church is evil and apostate becuase history records they did …” Almost everything fit into those two categories, just fill in the blank with the specific details.

I began to have a problem in class though. Especially the first category. One professor devoted an entire hour to a lecture on ‘Mary worship’ and elaborated extensively on it and why it was wrong. As a kid I had attended a Catholic gradeschool and as was usual at that time, we attended daily mass and memorized our catechism lessons out of the Baltimore Catechism. What the Adventist professor was teaching was not what I remembered learning. At the end of class, when there was opportunity for questions, I brought up that the Catholic church does not teach about Mary as he had just told the class, expecting some reasonable answer. His response was that everything the Catholic church publishes to teach its doctrine are deceptive lies to make things seem ok, but that the reality is the Catholic church teaches ‘Mary Worship’ becuase it is really pagan godess worship disguised as Christianity. He then refused further quesitoning in class on the subject.

As the semester continued, this became a very familiar pattern.
“History says…” but what I remembered from secular history classes was very different. “the Catholic church believes…” but what I remembered was very different. I thought I was remembering wrong, so I began researching Catholic beliefs, after all I only had a few months of elementary school level instruction. Every thing I found confirmed what I remembered.

So this is my question for this thread:

Why does the Adventist Church persist in claiming that the Catholic Church teaches things that she emphatically does not?

I’ll save the history questions and others for seperate threads, if there are people interested in discussing them.

MarysRoses

 

[JoeyWarren]

Why does the Adventist Church persist in claiming that the Catholic Church teaches things that she emphatically does not?

One reason is that teaching what is not true continues is to reinforce their own belief so they are able to reside in their comfort zone. Second reason, the Catholic is wrong in everything, otherwise I must become Catholic.

 

[apophasis]

That’s the problem with all “isms.” The ultimate goal of its teaching is that you become one of them. But true faith is not joining or comforming to any “ism,” and the ultimate goal of true preaching/teaching is a personal trust in the Person and sacrificial work of Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Acts 8:35 “Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.”

 

[Saint_Michael]

Why does the Adventist Church persist in claiming that the Catholic Church teaches things that she emphatically does not?

MarysRoses

Many Churches do this, I don’t know what the motivation is honestly. Maybe it’s genuine concern, but to have an entire denomination devoted to attacking another is a bit odd. Last I checked what we Catholics do has no bearing on an SDA’s salvation, so it’s a wonder why so much time is devoted to us. Their time would be better spent reading the Gospels’ and following Christ’s example.

Even if the Catholic Church is the “whore of Babylon” (not saying it is), what then? Do SDA’s get to tell us Catholics “I told you so” at the end times? What exactly does all of this gain SDA’s? Do they teach only SDA’s are saved or something?

 

[Saint_Michael]

Non-denominationalism?

 

[Saint_Michael]

That’s the problem with all “isms.” The ultimate goal of its teaching is that you become one of them. But true faith is not joining or comforming to any “ism,” and the ultimate goal of true preaching/teaching is a personal trust in the Person and sacrificial work of Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Non-denominationalism???

 

[JoeyWarren]

Non-denominationalism???

 

[apophasis]

Non-denominationalism???

Yup! Even non-denominational-ism. If that’s its message. :tiphat:

1 Cor. 1:23 “…but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,”

 

[JoeyWarren]

Yup! Even non-denominational-ism. If that’s its message. :tiphat:

1 Cor. 1:23 “…but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,”

You sounded Catholic right there.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ:…

How come non-catholics hate this verse or least never preach it along with the one you gave above?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

So this is my question for this thread:

Why does the Adventist Church persist in claiming that the Catholic Church teaches things that she emphatically does not?

I’ll save the history questions and others for seperate threads, if there are people interested in discussing them.

MarysRoses

I spent some time at some anti-Catholic forums and it has become clear to me whats going on. Some toss out lies that even they dont believe but as long as it simply APPEARS anti-Catholic its good enough for them. Its the foundation of protestantism itself, they start off with an attack and leave you with the task of picking up the pieces. They take away from real discussion by starting brush fires and by the time one is put out either another one starts or no one is interested in the real issue anymore. Keep the Church on the defensive making it spend time clearing its name which was originally smeared.

Second the anti-Catholic fables have been passed on in each generation and have become so ingrained into their thought that these misunderstandings soon flow naturally even into pamphlets and books. (eg “anti-Christ” in the Bible = pope)

It was part of Luther’s tactics from the start, demonize and slander the Church and people will eventually question and doubt and eventually unquestionably distrust anything Catholic. Once the Church is untrustworthy then your conscience can be excused to believe anything you want.

 

[steve_b]

So this is my question for this thread:

Why does the Adventist Church persist in claiming that the Catholic Church teaches things that she emphatically does not?

MarysRoses

As you know, the SDA’s aren’t unique in this.

But here’s a promise you can take to the bank. The Holy Spirit through St Paul said to the Church of Rome,

"the God of peace will soon crush Satan under YOUR feet ( the Church of Rome) . [Rm 16:20]

If we only had a clue to what “soon” means

 

[apophasis]

You sounded Catholic right there.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ:…

How come non-catholics hate this verse or least never preach it along with the one you gave above?

Are you kidding? It’s one of my favorite verses - and assurance of my salvation.

“I have been crucified with Christ…”…I am not taught in the Scriptures to crucify myself, but I have been co-crucified, co-buried and co-resurrected with Christ. In other words, I am a new creation now in Christ resurrected (see 2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 6; Eph. 2:5-10; Col. 3:1-4). It’s how God sees me now and forever. I have been crucified with Christ" is a major Pauline doctrine and didactically taught by him. It reveals my relationship to sin now in the resurrected Christ.

Paul also gives us the basic philosopy of all “isms”:Gal. 4:17 “They eagerly seek you, not commendably, but they wish to shut you out so that you will seek them.”

 

[SamlB]

Non-Denominational = Stealth Babdist.

Every “Non-Denom” I have ever met has believed and taught exactly what the Southern Baptists do.

 

[jonfan]

I believe they like to beat up the Catholic Church because it is a way to suck in more Protestants or people who disagree with the Catholic Church. They started this in the 1800’s to draw in more people to their new religion. A lot of people thought immigrating Catholics were there to do the work of the Pope and make America a socialist nation. It has now carried on (although not as blatant on their websites) but definately in their teachings. I always find this a little out of wack. What kind of message is that sending to the people who attend SDA services? I never go to Mass and hear the preist put down another religion to justify Catholicism.

God Bless,
Jon

 

[apophasis]

As you know, the SDA’s aren’t unique in this.

But here’s a promise you can take to the bank. The Holy Spirit through St Paul said to the Church of Rome,

"the God of peace will soon crush Satan under YOUR feet ( the Church of Rome) . [Rm 16:20]

If we only had a clue to what “soon” means

This is addressed to all the believers in Rome, not to an institutionalized church. And this promise is not restricted to only those believers that were in Rome at the time of his writing.

But you’re right that this crushing of Satan is in the yet future. We see this promise fulfilled in Rev. 20 when he is bound by Christ at His 2nd Advent. Bound for 1000 years while Christ, the Son of David, rules upon His father David’s throne over Israel and the nations in Jerusalem (the promised “Millennial Kingdom”, see Luke 1:32-33; Zech. 14).

 

[apophasis]

Non-Denominational = Stealth Babdist.

Every “Non-Denom” I have ever met has believed and taught exactly what the Southern Baptists do.

And what “exactly” is that?

 

[Saint_Michael]

And what “exactly” is that?

I hope I’m not out of line with this, but you’ve been kind of hijacking this thread. First with the shot on Peter being rebuked by Paul, we all know that for what it was, let’s not play games. Now every post is on something other than the topic. Can you just create a topic for what it is you really want to talk about? It obviously isn’t anything about SDA’s.

Pax

 

[boppysbud]

This “non denominational” non sense comes up so often I feel like I should put it in a Word document and just drop it in whenever it is appropriate.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “NON DENOMINATIONAL”, EVERY “n d” denomination is actually Protestant, a denomination, Evangelical a denomination, and fundamentalist, again a denomination.

I think the thing of these “non denominational” denominations is they like to think, pretend, and teach that they are they only Christians that exist, they also like to call them selves and their institutions “Christian” when they are really fundamentalist Christian.

So called “Christian”

Bookstores
schools
radio stations
tv stations
magazines, are not generic Christian they are really fundamentalist.

 

[steve_b]

This is addressed to all the believers in Rome, not to an institutionalized church. And this promise is not restricted to only those believers that were in Rome at the time of his writing.

There’s other threads for where this is potentially going. I’ll try to be brief.

The Church already has Bishops, Priests, and Deacons. The hierarchical Church is already established in scripture.
apothasis:

But you’re right that this crushing of Satan is in the yet future. We see this promise fulfilled in Rev. 20 when he is bound by Christ at His 2nd Advent. Bound for 1000 years while Christ, the Son of David, rules upon His father David’s throne over Israel and the nations in Jerusalem (the promised “Millennial Kingdom”, see Luke 1:32-33; Zech. 14).

As Paul says in Rm 16:20, God will crush Satan. But under whose feet will He do it? The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to say this to the Church of Rome. Not incidently this is where the successors to Peter are. Jesus keeps His promises.

 

[apophasis]

There’s other threads for where this is potentially going. I’ll try to be brief.

The Church already has Bishops, Priests, and Deacons. The hierarchical Church is already established in scripture.

It maybe did have elders at the time of Paul’s writing, but there were no “priests.” But Paul did not address his letter directly to the elders.

As Paul says in Rm 16:20, God will crush Satan. But under whose feet will He do it? The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to say this to the Church of Rome. Not incidently this is where the successors to Peter are. Jesus keeps His promises.

Paul mentions no such thing as a “successor” to Peter in his letter. And the only place we read in Scripture where Satan is crushed is in Rev. 20. And this does not take place in the city of Rome nor in the country of Italy, or in the Vatican.