Former SDA now Catholic

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I hope I’m not out of line with this, but you’ve been kind of hijacking this thread. First with the shot on Peter being rebuked by Paul, we all know that for what it was, let’s not play games. Now every post is on something other than the topic. Can you just create a topic for what it is you really want to talk about? It obviously isn’t anything about SDA’s.

Pax
Actually, my posts have been germane. The question is why SDA’ism teaches what it does. I presented the basic philosophy of all “isms.” And it was you who came back sarcastacially with “denominationalism” (of course to the delight of others). And I did concur with you that even “denominational-ism” would fall into that basic philosophy if that was its message, rather than Christ Himself.

So, I believe if anyone has “hijacked” the thread, it is you with your sarcasm.
 
It maybe did have elders at the time of Paul’s writing, but there were no “priests.”.
S where do all the “priests” in revelation come from if they have nothing to do with Christ’s Church? They aren’t coming from non-denominationalism.

Elder=presbyter=priest it’s a language thing.
 
Actually, my posts have been germane. The question is why SDA’ism teaches what it does. I presented the basic philosophy of all “isms.” And it was you who came back sarcastacially with “denominationalism” (of course to the delight of others). And I did concur with you that even “denominational-ism” would fall into that basic philosophy if that was its message, rather than Christ Himself.

So, I believe if anyone has “hijacked” the thread, it is you with your sarcasm.
No you clearly hijacked the thread (clear in every one of your posts), and now it is woefully off topic. Obviously my saying “non-denominationalism” was in reply to you saying any denomination with their “isms” are wrong, and the knock on Peter. I pointed out that you clearly belong to a denomination that is an “ism” too. It was light hearted and a joke to counter your obvious veiled attack, most people understood that. And if you can be honest with yourself for one minute you will admit I’m right, and you know full well what you’ve been doing in this thread. Buck up admit it, apologize and simply open a thread on Peter not the first Pope, the priesthood etc…
 
I hope I’m not out of line with this, but you’ve been kind of hijacking this thread. First with the shot on Peter being rebuked by Paul, we all know that for what it was, let’s not play games.
In which post did I talk about Paul rebuking Peter???
 
It maybe did have elders at the time of Paul’s writing, but there were no “priests.”
Sorry to take the easy way out here, but I don’t have much time this morning. Don’t worry, this is short (1 page) but I think you will find it interesting.
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0503fea4.asp
apothasis:
Paul mentions no such thing as a “successor” to Peter in his letter.
So?

We see succession to an apostles office when Judas was replaced by Mattias [Acts 1:15…]. What about the other apostles offices when they died. You think it ended with Judas the traitor?
apothasis:
And the only place we read in Scripture where Satan is crushed is in Rev. 20. .
Under whose feet will God crush Satan? Rm 16:20.

There is no time limits to these promises. No matter how long it takes, this will happen.
 
Hi MarysRoses,

I would be interested in hearing more about your experiences and also hearing from other Adventists who later became Catholic. In the past you made some great posts, and it is too bad they got deleted during the hacker attack. But I think starting this thread was a great idea.

I have many friends who are Christian and not Catholic. But what strikes me as “unique” about Adventists, is their belief system appears to be based on being anti-Catholic and hostile to other Christians who worship on Sunday. It seems like they are united in dislike for the Church, and if you take that away, most of their doctrine crumbles. I have serious problems with much of what they teach because it is based on inaccurate information or distorts the facts. I know each person is different, but it seems like some Adventists are more interested in attacking the Catholic Church than in bringing people closer to Christ, so their plan backfires so to speak. That being said, I know most Adventists have wonderful hearts and are doing their best to serve God.

What I wonder is, if those in Adventist teaching positions, such as at the university you attended, know they are teaching distorted facts, and that is why they are reluctant to question things. Conversely, I attended an all-girls Catholic highschool (and a Catholic elementary school) and we were always taught to question everything we were taught, that questioning our beliefs and faith was a good and healthy thing, because if you havent explored things for yourself, and then accepted it, then you dont have real faith. The teachers at my school wanted us to have true faith and believe in the teachings of Jesus and the Catholic Church, not because that is what we were taught from childhood. but because that was what we knew was right after investigating things for ourselves. I don`t know if I am explaining this right, but hopefully you and the other posters will grasp what I am trying to say.

The wonderful thing about the Catholic Church is that the more you investigate and research things, including the writings of the early Church fathers, the stronger your faith becomes.

Sincerely,
Maria1212
 
we were always taught to question everything we were taught, that questioning our beliefs and faith was a good and healthy thing, because if you havent explored things for yourself, and then accepted it, then you dont have real faith.
Maria1212,

Good to see you back. This is what I was taught also. And you explained it just right.
 
Hi MarysRoses, I think the non-scholars among SDA continue teaching lies because they have not shaken off their Christian Connection roots. The Christian Connection is a movement out of the bostom unitarians. This movement influnced the Restoration Movement of Campbellism, and influnced the Adventist Movement.

It is from The CC that we get today’s modern version of “bible alone” doctrine. A main charteristic of the CC movement was its anti-catholicism. Lies are spread among those who think within the Box. Adventism developed within the box of Christian Connection Movement. Their logic is basically circular in nature.

We ( SDA ) are the true church in these last days, and sunday worshippers have the mark of the beast. We ( SDA ) will be tortured by orthodox churches. Therefore orthodox churches, ie the Catholic Church is viewed as their foe. Since, orthodox churches are against us – we need to errect barriers to keep our poeple from leaving and to keep our people from joining the orthodox churches, thus they spread lies.

Belief in the lies acts as a barriar to keep people in their church and to keep people from openness to orthodox churches.

They tell lies about us orthodox because they are trapped in a box and they fear that if they open up the box, everyone will escape into the light.
 
I think many of the members of SDA however are aware of the lies and aware of the problems with their theology. However, many of them continue as SDA because it is very difficult to leave. It is a way of life for them - they are in their comfort zone and do not know where else to turn. For some it is their entire social interaction.

In addition I think it would be very unnerving to discover that what you had been taught so lovingly could be wrong. It takes much courage to leave. I really admire the posters who have shared their journey with us.
 
Hi MarysRoses,

Conversely, I attended an all-girls Catholic highschool (and a Catholic elementary school) and we were always taught to question everything we were taught, that questioning our beliefs and faith was a good and healthy thing, because if you havent explored things for yourself, and then accepted it, then you dont have real faith. The teachers at my school wanted us to have true faith and believe in the teachings of Jesus and the Catholic Church, not because that is what we were taught from childhood. but because that was what we knew was right after investigating things for ourselves. I don`t know if I am explaining this right, but hopefully you and the other posters will grasp what I am trying to say.

Maria1212
I was educated by the Jesuits and had a similar experience-although as I look back I know they wanted me to have a true faith-Im just no sure they wanted me to be Catholic!😃
 
amills; said:
I agree with you 100 percent on this Amills! Many people who leave the SDA Church get cut off from their family and friends and face enormous pressure not to leave. It takes so much courage to do this and follow what they know is right, and i really admire and respect them for it. I am glad we have so many posters who have been so generous and open about sharing their experiences with us. I know I have learned a lot from them.

Sincerely,
Maria1212
 
Those SDA who work at church places may be concerned about losing their jobs. I read in a recent newsletter about a man who lost his job at an SDA univeristy because he was attending a non-sda church.

As I recall some SDA do practice shunning too.
 
So this is my question for this thread:
Why does the Adventist Church persist in claiming that the Catholic Church teaches things that she emphatically does not?
I appreciate everyone’s responses, but i’d like to narrow this a bit now.

Many protestant denominations (not all, but many) are at least somewhat anti-catholic in their doctrine. The difference with Adventists is that many of their beliefs are highly anti-catholic, and quite a few of those same beliefs are Adventist ‘distinctives’.

I read current Adventist periodicals of all kinds, papers from their seminary professors, Adventist Today, the Review, etc. The impression I get from my reading and from live conversations with Adventists online, is that the denomination is in crisis. Not that you see that put just that way. Traditional teachings are under attack from within the denomination. Whole congregations are leaving en mass. Some to form more traditional groups, some leaving the ‘core’ teachings of Adventism behind all together. The North American membership has dwindled in numbers and wealth to the point the North Amercian Conference no longer holds all the power and purse strings.

WHY do they do what they do… That was some of my frustration from 25 years ago expressing itself. They do it for many reasons, most of the obvious WHYs have already been posted.

A further question though… Would Adventists still BE Adventists, if they genuinely dropped the anti-catholic doctrines?

Is all that holds them together as a denomination are their ‘end time’ fulminations against Catholicism?

A few years ago, a group of people in my city bought full sized bill boards with a cartoonish picture that was obviously intended to be the Pope, with the caption, “The Man of Sin is to be revealed”

New Mexico is a largely Catholic state, the uproar was all over the talk radio programs, the news, the papers, the office chat, etc.

A sign company donated billboard space to the Archdiocese of Santa Fe for a rebuttal message, which our Archbishop used to post something to the effect of “let us love one another” .

It was interesting to me, that the SDA conference went to great lengths to distance themselves from the group that posted the billboards, insisting the SDA church had not paid for them or endorsed them. But when reporters would press them to deny the message they contained, they would try deflect the topic, give vague answers, etc. Some bright reporters pressed them hard and got half hearted admissions. Write ups in Adventist papers expressed regret over the damage to their reputations, talk about how the ‘truth’ should be presented with proper preparation and more charity, etc. But no denial of the message.

It is my opinion the Adventists continue with the attacks on Catholics out of fear of losing their distinctive identity, even if they don’t think of it that way.

I’d really like to hear an Adventist opinion on my question:

If Adventists GENUINELY dropped all the anti catholic doctrines in their theology, would they have anything left as a reason to continue their denomination?

MarysRoses
 
Non-Denominational = Stealth Babdist.

Every “Non-Denom” I have ever met has believed and taught exactly what the Southern Baptists do.
Ditto. Case in point, I was a regular attending member of the Fellowship of The Woodlands, a “non-denominational” mega-church in a suburb of Houston. Seats 4,000, has 12-20,000 per week attendance (depending on if it’s a holiday or a regular week) through multiple “services” per Sunday and Saturday night. I went through membership “class” here, (which they call “Class 101” which I think is a Rick Warren invention), and we learned about the things that the Fellowship of The Woodlands stands for, including giving donations to the missionaries of the Southern Baptist Convention. The pastor is also a graduate of a Southern Baptist university and his father is the pastor of another local megachurch, Champions Forest Baptist Church.

… but using the non-commital “non-denominational” label and putting no “denomination” name on the church has allowed them to grow quickly, and their staunch Southern Baptist views on tithing & stuardship have allowed them to purchase their 125 acres and 4,000 seat church with cash – paid off – through tithes and donations. (not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it their tithing sermons have an eerily Baptist sound to them).

The greatest new denomination that’s taking people away from the fullness of the Church is the “non-denominational” denomination. After all, if you don’t have to commit to believing anything, you can believe whatever you want.

-Michael
 
…I never go to Mass and hear the preist put down another religion to justify Catholicism.
Ditto. Never, not once. Even in RCIA classes, there was a distinctive focus on presenting Catholic teaching, NOT focusing on refuting the teachings of other groups. In fact, the only “other” groups mentioned at all during RCIA specifically were the Orthodox and only in the briefest way, as we discussed who has valid sacraments.

On the other hand, even the most docile, loving and motivational sermon in a fundamentalist/evangelical church may contain subtle anti-Catholic notions.

For instance, the big non-denom church I spoke of before has commercials and they say things like “we just believe that church should be a place for the whole family to have fun”… Huh?? That’s what church is for? And they also (as with other fundamentalists) make the word “religion” seem like a four-letter-word. I’m almost surprised they don’t say “the ‘R’ word.” Where did this idea come from? I grew up on it, too. Scott Wesley Brown once sang “I’m not religious, I just love the Lord.” So loving the Lord and following His Church is not possible at the same time?

-Michael
 
If the SDAs were to stop teaching that Catholicism was the whore of Babylon and was going to inflict worldwide Sunday worship on them, they would have to give up their false prophetess Ellen G. White.

If they gave up EGW, there goes their primary support of their unique doctrines: the investigative judgement, soul sleep, health message, etc.

Once their unique doctrines are gone, they are nothing more than Southern Baptists who keep Saturday.

Marsha
 
If Catholics stopped believing they were the one true Church, they would lose their esteem of doctrinal orthodoxy. Soon after, people would come to question every single doctrine of the Church, including its distinctives: papal infallibility, sacramentalism, communion of the saints, etc. At that point, the Church would lose its very sense of identity…

And become nothing more than a group of Southern Baptists who worship for only an hour on Sundays.

😛
 
I really like that name, MarysRoses, i know it has nothing to do with this post, but thought I would mention it 🙂
 
If the SDAs were to stop teaching that Catholicism was the whore of Babylon and was going to inflict worldwide Sunday worship on them, they would have to give up their false prophetess Ellen G. White.

If they gave up EGW, there goes their primary support of their unique doctrines: the investigative judgement, soul sleep, health message, etc.

Once their unique doctrines are gone, they are nothing more than Southern Baptists who keep Saturday.

Marsha
This is what i’m thinking…

There’s so little left after giving up the anti-catholic beliefs, its hard to imagine Adventism truly reforming.

MarysRoses
 
I think many of the members of SDA however are aware of the lies and aware of the problems with their theology. However, many of them continue as SDA because it is very difficult to leave. It is a way of life for them - they are in their comfort zone and do not know where else to turn. For some it is their entire social interaction.

In addition I think it would be very unnerving to discover that what you had been taught so lovingly could be wrong. It takes much courage to leave. I really admire the posters who have shared their journey with us.
As a Seventh-day Adventist; I too appreciate the former Adventists that post their stories. I find I learn much from it all. I have also been seeing many who leave our church, come to the Catholic Church; then go back to another Protestant Church, sometimes our’s, sometimes others. It actually is hard to change Churches; and I know former Catholics who have left the Catholic Church to become Seventh-day Adventists, with similar horror stories to tell about their experience within Catholicism.

It has been my experience that some personal situations/testimonies may not reflect official teachings on either side.
Pius IX on Mary :From our earliest years nothing has ever been closer to our heart than devotion—filial, profound, and wholehearted—to the most blessed Virgin Mary. Always have we endeavored to do everything that would redound to the greater glory of the Blessed Virgin, promote her honor, and encourage devotion to her. . . . Great indeed is our trust in Mary. The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God. Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and his Church, Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assaults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin. . . . The foundation of all our confidence, as you know well, venerable brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary.
—Pope Pius IX, Ubi Primum (February 2, 1849)
found at catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea3sb1.asp
While many sincere Catholics try to defend their Church’s doctrines on Mary; they will not be too likely to succeed as often as they wish, because of writings such as Pope Pius IX above.

I believe that many Catholics on this forum do not understand correctly the official Adventist teachings on Mary; and why we feel that the Catholic position is not correct. The Catholic teaching and practice goes well beyond the worship issue into the cloudy realms of making Mary equal to Christ.
“We obtain everything through mary”
as quoted above is in direct defiance of the plain teaching of Jesus Himself:
“Without Me; ye can do nothing;” “I am the way the truth and the life.” (Jo.14:6, 15:5)
“through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation.”
as quoted above; again, is in direct challenge to the express Word of God:
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Please name one Bible text that says in agreement with Pius IX that “through her are obtained…ALL SALVATION” I would be very interested to see that.

I would like to come back to several points in the quote from Pius IX above in my next post. Let us then, in light of the general flow of comments from Catholic Forum Members start to focus more carefully on what exactly OFFICIAL Catholic teachings tells us about Mary. Then, we can better say our responses.

Thanks for putting up with me here. 🙂
 
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