twopekinguys;5876531:
Apology accepted
Q1 That is not a doctrinal statement, and it is not being presented as such in that context. By the way, the lightministries website is not really a good source for information.
**OK? you should really study the claims the popes have made over the years, especially during the Dark Ages. But you are obviously a defender of your church system, I’m not going to argue this point any further. **
I have studied them thank you very much. As I stated, the post you provided is not a doctrinal statement, and wasn’t presented as such. If you read the bottom of the quote you supplied, you will see a very key piece of information you are overlooking. "Christopher Marcellus in Oration
addressing Pope Julius II. It is not the Pope making the declaration. Why is that so hard to understand?
Q2 Sorry, I don’t think I am misinterpreting these. How can you misinterpret John 20:23? He is telling the Apostles they have that power. (I don’t know a verse that can be any more clear.) That power is then handed down through Apostolic succession. Jesus passed this authority to the apostles, and the apostles passed in down, and on and on.
**You seem pretty certain of this. You could change my mind though if you could give me just ONE example of this claim. Just ONE. Please don’t make the mistake of basing such an important doctrine on a couple texts taken out of context. Look at ALL the evidence. Jesus claimed the authority to forgive sins and was scolded because of it. Of course, most Pharisees were not Spirit-filled, but they had this principle right:
*Why doth this man speak blasphemies? WHO CAN FORGIVE SINS BUT GOD ALONE? ***Mark 2:7
Again, I don’t know how the 2 references I provided can be misinterpreted. You have 2 gospel writers saying the same thing, although worded differently, and you don’t think this is good enough? What type of example are you wanting that could be any more clear?
Q3 Sorry, I can’t agree with you on this, in any way shape or form.
JPII did not worship Mary. No Catholic worships Mary. Worship is reserved for Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit. Again, lightministries is really a poor source for your information. Catholics do hold Mary in high regard considering she is the Mother of Jesus. You hold your mother in high regard don’t you?
What is lightministries…? I searched our Adventist church ministries, and it appears nowhere. Nonetheless…If there is a way I could show you pictures of John Paul II bowing to a figure of Mary…would you be convinced? How about his complete devotion to her as he credited her for saving his life? Anyway, that’s neither here nor there. Here’s my advice:
“…fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters” Rev 14:7
When I googled your reference in question one, it came up as the first listing which was lightministries. Then again, if you’re using an SDA website to learn about the Catholic Church, that isn’t a good choice either.
Many Catholics bow in front of a statue, but that does not mean we are worshipping the individual the statue represents. Statues are used as reminders of the individual, what they taught us by their earthly life, and to help us stay focused in our prayer at that time. Kneeling is also a very common posture for prayer within the Catholic Church.
There is no doubt that JPII had a devotion to Mary. That is far from worshipping her. You have heard of the 3rd secret of Fatima right? Speed version is that it foretold of the Bishop of Rome being assasinated. Expressing gratitude for her intecession in the incident is far from worship don’t you think?
Catholics believe that those who have gone before us are alive in Christ in Heaven. We ask those that are in heaven with Jesus to take our prayers to him. We are asking for their assistance, we are not worshipping them, and we are not praying expecting them to answer our prayers themselves. They don’t have that power, and we know that. We are merely asking them to intercede on our behalf. The key definition of the word interced is 1. To plead on another’s behalf.
Why would you do this? “…we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” 1Jn2:1. Only Jesus Christ is qualified to intercede on our behalf:
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ” 1Ti2:5. Oh beloved brother, I plead with you! Look to none other than the Saviour, for
“he ever liveth to make intercession” for you and I (Heb7:25).
Simply put, do you ask others to pray for you? It is the same thing. We believe that those in Heaven can pray **with us to the Father **. As I stated above, we believe that those who have passed away are alive in heaven with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and can offer their prayers along with ours to them.
***“And call no man father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven” ***Mat23:9
“Jesus said, “And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven” (Matt 23:9). Several sentences later he said, “Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers” (Matt 23:32). So clearly verse 9 was not meant to be a prohibition against the use of the word “father” for anyone other than the first person of the trinity. Rather, it was a prohibition against the misuse of the title.” You have to use context, and not a single verse. Quoted from the ask an apologist portion of this website. You might also want to check out this link.
catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp
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. love hearing what our jewish brothers and sisters have to say. they have the most interesting points of view. are there any others of the jewish faith here? or could someone direct me to a thread that would be appropriate? thx
