Former Vatican Exorcist says Vatican will reject Medjugorje

[Adonis33]

Cardinal Ratzinger DID NOT SAY THAT!!

Catholics are free to believe or not believe in apparitions
EVEN if they are “äpproved”

satan would NEVER be behind something so pure and beautiful as Our Lady leading God’s children to His Son.

Seems to me given what the Bishop has stated from the OP and given what the Yugo. Bishop’s Conference has said, I think it is safe to say nothing holy is happening in Med.

If the Vatican decides to declare this “apparition” as valid (which looks HIGHLY unlikely), I will change my opinion.

1. Present state of Church’s recognition regarding authenticity: Rome respects the declaration of the then-Yugoslavian Bishops Conference dated April 10, 1991. The Catholic News Service translated the Croatian text: From the very beginning, the bishops have been following the events of Medjugorje through the local bishop, the bishops’ commission and the commission of the Bishops’ Conference of Yugoslavia for Medjugorje. On the basis of studies that have been made to this moment, it cannot be confirmed that supernatural apparitions and revelations are occurring here.

campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq27.html

 

[Jimdandy]

Go-then see if you still disbelieve.

 

[rpp]

Go-then see if you still disbelieve.

This is off topic.

We need to be careful to remain on the extremely narrow topic of discussing the article. Medj is a banned topic on this fourm and we have been granted a very special, but very short, leash. Please note Post #10.

I had made originally a personal appeal to the moderators to leave this thread open. Please do not get me in trouble. Thank you.

 

[LilyM]

Go-then see if you still disbelieve.

I have been, Jim, and I’m not convinced. Likewise my father and my aunt.

I did see well-intentioned and holy people on fire for the faith, yes, but if my dad is any example then they were that way before they arrived and quite apart from anything that happened there.

And I certainly see plenty of the same in my local parish and lots of other parishes.

What I didn’t see was anything extraordinary that truly spoke to me of Mary having appeared in that place.

Having said which, I apologise if it is in contravention of forum rules and intend to say no more on the subject.

 

[Adonis33]

Go-then see if you still disbelieve.

This is irrelevant. I have never been inside an abortion clinic, but I am pretty sure that it is not a pleasant place to be in. Many people see Mary in a tortilla, a potato and the bottom of a skillet. I don’t need to actually go to the location to understand that something not right is happening.

What I do have is a statement from the Yugo. Bishops Conference and a Bishop’s statement (an exorcist) from the OP.

Bishop Andrea Gemma has a very good point when saying these “apparitions” come from the devil. I find that, in many cases, Medj. turns faith into some sort of superstition.

 

[Nickkname]

See, this is what I fear. I fear that if the Church condemns the apparitions, it will cause a major schism, or at least a major shaking of the faith of many. I’m not crying Antichrist, either. I’m saying, I fear there are Catholics who so strongly believe in the apparitions of Mejugorje that they will be unwilling to accept the Church’s judgment should she condemn them (I am in no way saying she will; I’m just saying should she do so). And I think this is the Vatican’s fear too. I don’t want anymore Catholics to leave the Church, nor be excommunicated. But at the same time, I know that prayer is powerful, so I’m praying for the Holy Spirit to come into the hearts of all the faithful, for the unity of the Church.

 

[rpp]

This is irrelevant. I have never been inside an abortion clinic, but I am pretty sure that it is not a pleasant place to be in. Many people see Mary in a tortilla, a potato and the bottom of a skillet. I don’t need to actually go to the location to understand that something not right is happening.

What I do have is a statement from the Yugo. Bishops Conference and a Bishop’s statement (an exorcist) from the OP.

Bishop Andrea Gemma has a very good point when saying these “apparitions” come from the devil. I find that, in many cases, Medj. turns faith into some sort of superstition.

Please note post 10 and 23.

We have a very narrow topic here.

 

[thistle]

Go-then see if you still disbelieve.

Tell me something. If the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), which is the final authority, rule against Medjugorie will you show obedience to the Church and accept the ruling.

 

[Celtic_FC]

I read a book about this, and I had a gut feeling I didn’t totally buy it. I’m with the Vatican on this one too. Must be nice to have a tennis court on your property.

 

[Jimdandy]

Originally Posted by Adonis33 View Post
This is irrelevant. I have never been inside an abortion clinic, but I am pretty sure that it is not a pleasant place to be in. Many people see Mary in a tortilla, a potato and the bottom of a skillet. I don’t need to actually go to the location to understand that something not right is happening.

That is a really sick thing to say, and is in no way a comparison.
A business of killing babies vrs the Ark of the Covenant.
What a sad way to perceive this great Gift.

I will keep you all in my daily prayers.
May the Peace of Jesus Christ envelope your hearts.

 

[Adonis33]

Originally Posted by Adonis33 View Post
This is irrelevant. I have never been inside an abortion clinic, but I am pretty sure that it is not a pleasant place to be in. Many people see Mary in a tortilla, a potato and the bottom of a skillet. I don’t need to actually go to the location to understand that something not right is happening.

That is a really sick thing to say, and is in no way a comparison.
A business of killing babies vrs the Ark of the Covenant.
What a sad way to perceive this great Gift.

I will keep you all in my daily prayers.
May the Peace of Jesus Christ envelope your hearts.

Thank you for your prayers.

My point was is that I do not have to go to Medj. to know something unholy is happening there.

What you consider as a “great gift” is something, as I have pointed out at least twice, that a conference stated has no proof of something supernatural. You also have a former leading Vatican exorcist stating in the Artical that he feels there is something diabolical going on.

Instead of getting upset at what I am saying - what is in the OP that you object to? What did Bishop Gemma state that you disagree with?

There are many wonderful approved apparitions that could be followed instead - like Lourdes and Fatima.

 

[LilyM]

See, this is what I fear. I fear that if the Church condemns the apparitions, it will cause a major schism, or at least a major shaking of the faith of many. I’m not crying Antichrist, either. I’m saying, I fear there are Catholics who so strongly believe in the apparitions of Mejugorje that they will be unwilling to accept the Church’s judgment should she condemn them (I am in no way saying she will; I’m just saying should she do so). And I think this is the Vatican’s fear too. I don’t want anymore Catholics to leave the Church, nor be excommunicated. But at the same time, I know that prayer is powerful, so I’m praying for the Holy Spirit to come into the hearts of all the faithful, for the unity of the Church.

Indeed, it could have this effect. But sad as it would be, it’s no reason for the Vatican not to teach the truth, and the longer it waits the more damage would be done in any case.

Hopefully if the Vatican does pronounce against Medj, people will learn not to put more faith in apparitions - be they approved or not - than in the Vatican.

And in all truth, those who do so have already left the Church, in fact and reality, whether they are formally declared excommunicated or not

 

[Jimdandy]

I have already given valid and true reasonings about this subject-only to have the threads pulled-several times.

Whenever a great good is at work, great evil will try to counteract it.

In the end, the Truth will prevail.

Pray for Holy Priests to lead us all.

 

[thistle]

I have already given valid and true reasonings about this subject-only to have the threads pulled-several times.

Whenever a great good is at work, great evil will try to counteract it.

In the end, the Truth will prevail.

Pray for Holy Priests to lead us all.

As for me if the Church declares Medjugorie to be true I will accept it. If it is declared false I will accept it.
However I notice that pro-Medjugorie people are reluctant to say if they will obey the Church if the ruling goes against them so I’m still waiting for you to answer my question in post #28.

 

[Linda_Marie]

As for me if the Church declares Medjugorie to be true I will accept it. If it is declared false I will accept it.
However I notice that pro-Medjugorie people are reluctant to say if they will obey the Church if the ruling goes against them so I’m still waiting for you to answer my question in post #28.

If they do not obey, then they will know who it is they are truly following. There is only one author of disobedience.

Trust that the Holy Spirit has not abandoned the Church and will guide those who entrusted to make this decision.

 

[thistle]

If they do not obey, then they will know who it is they are truly following. There is only one author of disobedience.

Trust that the Holy Spirit has not abandoned the Church and will guide those who entrusted to make this decision.

I agree.

 

[Adonis33]

I have already given valid and true reasonings about this subject-only to have the threads pulled-several times.

Whenever a great good is at work, great evil will try to counteract it.

In the end, the Truth will prevail.

Pray for Holy Priests to lead us all.

Do you consider Bishop Gemma a “great evil”? Since he was once the lead exorcist in the Vatican, so you think he would recognize evil when he sees it? Again - where do you disagree with what Bishop Gemma had to say?

If the Vatican declares the visions false - would you consider the Vatican a “great evil”?

You are correct, one way or the other - the truth will prevail. Will you accept the ruling of the Magisterium?

 

[Linda_Marie]

St, Catherine of SiennaTreatise of Obedience

 

[sacredcello]

Do you consider Bishop Gemma a “great evil”? Since he was once the lead exorcist in the Vatican, so you think he would recognize evil when he sees it? Again - where do you disagree with what Bishop Gemma had to say?

If the Vatican declares the visions false - would you consider the Vatican a “great evil”?

You are correct, one way or the other - the truth will prevail. Will you accept the ruling of the Magisterium?

There are quite a few bishops and priests who have been disobedient to the teaching authority of the Church, for example, in counseling their people that artificial contraception is ok.

Bishop Gemma can predict that the Vatican will rule against the apparitions, but I don’t see the Holy Father making any moves, do you? In fact, John Paul II the Great was very much in favor of pilgrimages to Medj. He would have gone himself, but couldn’t because he was Pope and was not allowed to make a ruling on it until after the apparitions had ceased.

I will certainly obey Holy Mother Church if she makes a statement on this matter. It seems absurd to criticize the messages from our Lady (even if they turned out to be declared false) because there is nothing in these messages that is not in the Gospel. Pray and fast. What’s the problem?

I’ve never been to Medj., nor do I have any plans, but I don’t see the harm. The other Marian sites, Lourdes, and Fatima, are not so different.

 

[sacredcello]

And in all truth, those who do so have already left the Church, in fact and reality, whether they are formally declared excommunicated or not

Actually, about 95% of Catholics would be excommunicated for receiving the Sacrament unworthily, since this is the estimated number of those who use contraception or are sterilized.

So, our churches would be nearly empty, if we booted out all those who disobey. So sad, but true.