Forming a New Relgious Order using EF?

[LiturgicalChant]

Despite what the first posters to the question thought, what the original poster wanted and desires is in fact possible and has already been achieved by a few others. It is not actually unrealistic. I encourage him to pursue it and if it is what truly he is called to do, God will probably grant him success.

www.canonsregular.com/‎


http://sainteliaschurch.blogspot.com/2012/04/canons-regular-of-new-jerusalem-and.html

crisismagazine.com/2012/the-traditional-mass-is-not-a-spectator-sport

We celebrate the traditional liturgy with great joy.” This statement, another part of Dom Daniel’s sermon, helps me put my finger on what is so different. Never known for our collective charisma or charm, those who self-identify as “Traditionalist” can often be about as much fun as a leaky bottle of lemon juice at a paper cut party. This is ironic when you consider that we believe the traditional Catholic experience is a “pearl of great price.” We should, therefore (if there’s any sense in the world) be a pretty happy, personable lot. And to be fair, I’d say that a good many of us are. Nevertheless, it only takes one bad egg to spoil the batch, and we’ve got dozens. Consequently, our bad reputation persists.

This is why seeing this kind of Christian joy in action in a monastic community that opens its doors to public worship is something else entirely. For starters, the monks – Dom Daniel, Frater John, Frater Alban – are so noticeably kind. At the conclusion of Mass, they mingle with the faithful, whom they take the time to get to know by name. They sell produce, and fresh baked breads, employing monastic industry to support their work. And if you forgot your wallet? No worries. They’ll probably spot you a loaf. They remember not only who you are, but what is going on in your life, and when they say they’re praying for your intentions, you get the feeling that they mean that they’re doing so with great specificity.

What this does is create a sense of community – something that I have found to be lacking in many traditional parishes I’ve attended or visited. Often times, the Traditional Latin Mass is attended by people from every far corner of the geographic area, creating a loose federation of individuals that know each other by face or even by name, but have little in the way of a sense of real common bond. It’s a lovely thing to have coffee and donuts in a Church basement as a means of socializing with your fellow parishioners, but it’s a different thing entirely when a priest and his confrères make you feel as though you’re a part of something more cohesive and organic.

This communal aspect is almost familial, and is rooted first and foremost in the liturgical experience. The CRNJs believe in a participatio actuosa that is neither the frenetic, hand-holding around the altar experience of many post-Vatican II parishes, nor the austere, entirely interior participation of those more inclined to chapels of the Society of St. Pius X. It is a human, natural, anthropological form of worship, where one is engaged but not coddled, involved but never given the sense that it’s all about them.

The chants — which are beautiful, in a simple, country monastery kind of way—are sung antiphonally, meaning that the schola and the faithful alternate voices. The faithful are encouraged to join the altar boys in making the responses to the priest, since the reason the altar boys make those responses at all in the first place is to act as representatives of the faithful. These aspects of liturgical participation may not seem groundbreaking to anyone who has been raised on the Novus Ordo Missae, and will not even come as a surprise to those Eastern Rite Catholics nourished on the ancient liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, but to the average traditional Catholic, they are (seeming) innovations that border on scandalous.

Except that they are not innovations at all.

These Canons regularly visit England and may even be able to meet with him someday. There are other groups out there, this idea has potential.

As far as what Aramis said,

I urge you to consider going where you are needed, not where you are comfortable.

this is not simply a matter of comfort for many, it is a matter of necessity. Following with the liturgy used by the church for 1800 years is for some people an indepensible element. We have a right to the traditional latin mass, it is not a priviledge.

 

[OraLabora]

We have a right to the traditional latin mass, it is not a priviledge.

I’m not sure I agree with this. The Holy Father and Magisterium could easily abrogate one form of the Mass or the other, or introduce a new form of the Roman Rite.

Remember at Trent many forms of the Mass were abrogated. Nobody spoke about “rights”. Or if they did, it’s lost in the mists of time.

What we have the right to, are the Graces of God through His sacraments, including the Eucharist with which we may commune if we’re in a state of grace. The Church is not a democracy, but is based on an episcopal structure that is God-given through the Apostles.

 

[ProVobis]

Remember at Trent many forms of the Mass were abrogated.

Actually anything created after 1370 AD. See Dogmatic Decrees of Session 7 and Quo Primum. One caveat: It could be argued that the anathema was disciplinary but that shouldn’t change the underlying dogma. And it also can be argued that the Roman Canon in its ancient form would be forever protected.

 

[Aramis]

Also note: canons regular give up all rights not explicitly granted by their rules and constitutions. As do all other religious.

Take the recent group - I forget which order - The houses were divided into those devoted to the EF Mass and those devoted to the OF Mass. Pope Francis has told them flat out: They may not use the EF mass in that order for conventual worship - in order that the order be unified, it must use the ordinary form. So the few houses which were EF only now must be OF only, save when providing services for the local dioceses.

The only groups which have a right to the EF are the the FSSP, and the ICRSS, and any other such groups which may form with papal permission; The Dominicans, Carmelites, Norbertines, and a few others have their own non-EF non-OF missals granted by Papal grant in the past. The FSSP and ICRSS because they were granted that right at their formation.

The Laity have no right to the EF itself; they have the right to request it, and the bishops have a duty to make if available if practical and desired by a substantial and stable group of the faithful, but that isn’t the same as having it as a right to the EF itself.

So, just because a group has the EF doesn’t mean it will be using it, and religious do not have the same rights as laity.

 

[malphono]

Also note: canons regular give up all rights not explicitly granted by their rules and constitutions. As do all other religious.

Take the recent group - I forget which order - The houses were divided into those devoted to the EF Mass and those devoted to the OF Mass.

Just to be clear, that was the Franciscans of the Immaculate (FMI, I think), and has nothing whatsoever to do with any Order or Congregation of Canons Regular.

 

[AdvocatusVerbum]

Actually anything created after 1370 AD.

Which could have had some almost 200 years old. I definitely get what you’re saying but that’s a lot of time for a few generations to grow to love those forms, as well.

The Laity have no right to the EF itself; they have the right to request it, and the bishops have a duty to make if available if practical and desired by a substantial and stable group of the faithful, but that isn’t the same as having it as a right to the EF itself.

Eh? Since Summorum Pontificum, the Bishops don’t really enter the picture anymore as far as the TLM/EF, do they? Unless Pope Francis does something about it in the future, of course. Substitute Pastor and I otherwise agree, though. “Right” was definitely the wrong word.

 

[ProVobis]

Which could have had some almost 200 years old. I definitely get what you’re saying but that’s a lot of time for a few generations to grow to love those forms, as well.

True but most, if not all, were created by the Reformers. The Church had to draw the line somewhere. The Roman Canon might even have been included in some of them, though probably in some translated/interpreted form. The Roman Canon as we know it, some of us know it as EP1, has its roots much earlier than 1370 AD. I don’t think the Church protected prayers such as Psalm 42, Offertory, Last Gospel, and such although it appeared Trent did want to standardize the Mass as much as possible, in language, form, externals, etc.

 

[LiturgicalChant]

Because so many people on this forum feel that the lay people of the Catholic Church do not have a right to the traditional mass, is one of the reasons why this forum is not very popular with traditional catholics and is constantly tending to ban them.

 

[Br_Mark]

Dear mscee27,

Why try and reinvent the wheel ? there is a religious community relatively
close to you; a diocesan based order of St Benedict at Silverstream Priory which uses the EF exclusively.

Hope this helps,

Br Mark,osb

 

[ProVobis]

Dear mscee27,

Why try and reinvent the wheel ? there is a religious community relatively
close to you; a diocesan based order of St Benedict at Silverstream Priory which uses the EF exclusively.

Hope this helps,

Br Mark,osb

Welcome to the CAF, Br. Mark.

 

[Aramis]

Which could have had some almost 200 years old. I definitely get what you’re saying but that’s a lot of time for a few generations to grow to love those forms, as well.

Eh? Since Summorum Pontificum, the Bishops don’t really enter the picture anymore as far as the TLM/EF, do they? Unless Pope Francis does something about it in the future, of course. Substitute Pastor and I otherwise agree, though. “Right” was definitely the wrong word.

Bishops still enter into it. They may not forbid the use of the EF, but they are only obliged to provide it if there is a stable substantial group requesting it, priests trained in it, and no grave inconvenience in providing it.

Take the Archdiocese of Anchorage.

Talkeetna is a small community on the highway, abotu 115 miles (and usually about 2.5 to 3 hours drive, no matter what Google Maps claims) from the Holy Family Cathedral. It has a small parish that seats maybe 100 people. The nearest neighbor parish is 60+ miles away. The EF is offered about 80 miles away, twice a month last I heard.

If a group in Talkeetna were to arise asking persistently for an EF liturgy, the bishop would likely not provide it - he’s not got enough priests to have one resident in the Talkeetna parish as is, and providing an EF liturgy for them would be a hardship on the archdiocese, and deprive other parishes of their OF liturgy, for all the EF trained priests (of whom there are three I know of, and 2 or 3 more in training) are first and foremost pastors of parishes where the majority want the OF. The EF trained priests do celebrate the EF on a regular basis, and the ABp has made it clear he is willing to arrange coverage for priests to go to the seminars on how to say the EF liturgy.

The most stable group asking, however, doesn’t actually even attend the EF liturgies offered - but are quite satisfied by the Dominican Liturgy offered monthly by the Dominican Friars at the Cathedral parish.

The Archbishop didn’t invite the Dominicans in for the EF, but to provide a cathedral staff on a budget. That they have their own traditional liturgy is a bonus. That they say it often is a blessing for the Archdiocese.

 

[AdvocatusVerbum]

That makes sense, thank you. I had most of Fr Z’s recommendations for the stable group as the unspoken premise in my thoughts of the laity group requesting it to provide for most of that already from the suitable priest to the funding for proper training, etc.