Fortification and purity

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rosejmj

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So Catholics believe sex outside of marriage is sinful. Do you commit another sin if you have sex outside of marriage and use contraception or protection? And another question- is oral sex sinful if done within marriage as foreplay?

I have also heard pornography can be used in therapy to for example help those who have been sexually abused see sex in a more positive light. If there were no other better ways wouldn’t it make sense to use it for that purpose?

Isn’t it unfair to tell those with homosexual attractions that they now cannot enjoy physical intimacy (and possibly emotional intimacy) because through no fault of their own, due to physical, psychological and other factors they are attracted to the same sex? Most people who are heterosexual, including Catholics, would not dream of giving up romantic relationships and marriage and yet believe they should impose it on someone with homosexual attractions
 
I don’t believe that it’s unfair to ask homosexuals to be celibate. How about someone who is an alchoholic; would we say “Well, we shouldn’t tell him that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven because that might offend him”? What about someone who is an adulterer? should we conclude that God made them this way and that the only way they can be happy is by committing adultery, therefore we shouldn’t correct them?

If homosexuals want to say "I’m a homosexual and you christians must accept homosexual acts as being acceptable and permissible", I don’t see a place for that. We have no right to change or ignore what God has said about homosexuality (in the Bible).
 
  1. That is a lot of questions. First yes, there are two sins if you commit adultery or fornication and use ABC.
  2. As foreplay is ok
  3. That is not a legit use of therapy. And pornography is a violation of the participants anyway.
  4. No. It is fair. Just like it is fair that I can’t cheat on my wife just because through no fault of my own I like other women.
Are you familiar with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
 
I’m not saying you are wrong by comparing homosexuals to alcoholics or adulterers? No one needs to drink alcohol and even alcoholics don’t need to give up alcohol forever although that may make it easier to avoid alcoholism. Also many would say alcoholics have reduced culpability. But the desire to drink alcohol is much different than the desire for sex. the desire for intimacy and sexis much more part of the human nature than the desire to drink alcohol. In the case of an adulterer,most likely they have a way to get legitimate “non sinful” sex as well, thy are just cheating or helping someone cheat. The homosexual may not be cheating and had the same human desire for sex and intimacy,just with the same vs opposite sex. Why does he deserve to be denied those things due to attractions that were placed in him through no fault of his own?
 
rosejmj said:
I’m not saying you are wrong by comparing homosexuals to alcoholics or adulterers? No one needs to drink alcohol and even alcoholics don’t need to give up alcohol forever although that may make it easier to avoid alcoholism. Also many would say alcoholics have reduced culpability. But the desire to drink alcohol is much different than the desire for sex. the desire for intimacy and sexis much more part of the human nature than the desire to drink alcohol. In the case of an adulterer,most likely they have a way to get legitimate “non sinful” sex as well, thy are just cheating or helping someone cheat. The homosexual may not be cheating and had the same human desire for sex and intimacy,just with the same vs opposite sex. Why does he deserve to be denied those things due to attractions that were placed in him through no fault of his own?
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Because it is a blasphemy against what sex ought to be about. It is about a married husband and wife enjoying each other’s affection. God rejoices when a married couple has sex, because they are doing it His way and He wants it to be a remembrance of Him. I don’t believe that the homosexual lifestyle can ever lead to peace or joy. You don’t have to look far to see the fact that most homosexuals are not experiencing joy, that’s why most of them sleep around and/or date around.

From what I have heard, it’s hard for a homosexual man to find a partner that wants to be monogamous, first of all. Second, committed. Ultimately, God has spoken concerning this issue and that’s all we need. Our feelings and opinions take a back-seat when it comes to sexual ethics and everything else that the Bible talks about.
 
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rosejmj said:
Isn’t it unfair to tell those with homosexual attractions that they now cannot enjoy physical intimacy (and possibly emotional intimacy) because through no fault of their own, due to physical, psychological and other factors they are attracted to the same sex?
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That comparison is worth what it is, but I was born with a chromosomal abnormality which, through no fault of my own, makes me sterile. My husband and I will never have children. When we first found out, I thought it so unfair, and I still do, to an extent. I was angry with God and I couldn’t understand why He had made me that way, why we were to bear that cross when we so much wanted to be parents. My husband did not want to adopt. Reproductive medicine was out of the picture because it would have implied procedures we do not believe are morally permissible.

At first, I could have said the same sentence as the one with which you ended your post : most people, including Catholics, would not dream of giving up parenthood and yet they believe they should impose it on someone who was born sterile.

Life seems unfair from our limited point of view. I don’t think I will ever be past the point where my heart breaks when a little kid runs into my arms. But I am also convinced of two things : that God loves me infinitely as I am, and the fact I was born as I was is not a punishment but a vocation to something else ; and that the Day will come where I will see the whole picture and everything will make sense, and I will be able to confess from my heart that this was the right path for me.

I see homosexuality in pretty much the same way.
 
Where is it written that a person is entitled to sex?

And why would the only way a person could heal from sexual trauma is to watch other people doing it?
 
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rosejmj said:
I have also heard pornography can be used in therapy to for example help those who have been sexually abused see sex in a more positive light. If there were no other better ways wouldn’t it make sense to use it for that purpose?
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Pornography is gravely wrong. The ends do not justify the means.

Of course there are better methods to treat a person with sexual issues than showing them gravely sinful content and supporting the degradation of those involved in making pornography.
 
rosejmj said:
Isn’t it unfair to tell those with homosexual attractions that they now cannot enjoy physical intimacy
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No, it is not “unfair”.

It is difficult and it can be a true cross for those with same sex attraction to refrain from acting on their disordered desires.

Our sexual faculties were given to us by God for a purpose. We are not free to misuse them.
rosejmj said:
Most people who are heterosexual, including Catholics, would not dream of giving up romantic relationships and marriage and yet believe they should impose it on someone with homosexual attractions
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Many people who are heterosexual must also forego marriage due to physical or mental health issues.

It’s a fact of our fallen state.
 
Every act is a separate act. So contraception is a different act than fornication. There are some acts that are intrinsically evil so no circumstance or intention can allow for the act. Fornication, contraception, pornography, are all intrinsically evil and are all gravely immoral. A person that fornicates and uses contraception commits two gravely evil acts. Oral sex too is intrinsically evil and gravely immoral.

Every sexual act, meaning the use of our reproductive facility has to be all 3:
1-Marital
2-Unitive
3-Procreative
If not the act is a sin.
 
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Oral sex is okay in marriage as foreplay, and thus the marital act must culminate in the wife’s womb. Who said homosexuals cannot enjoy intimacy? Yet, sexual contact is forbidden!
 
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rosejmj said:
and even alcoholics don’t need to give up alcohol forever
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Ask any alcoholic who has stayed sober for any significant length of time if it will ever be OK for them to drink again. The answer will be a resounding no.
 
Yed most should but then the desire for alcohol is much different than the desire for physical intimacy
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
Where is it written that a person is entitled to sex?
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This. I believe universal acceptance of birth control has fundamentally changed the way we see ourselves, and changed our view of the role sex should play in our lives, and to a much greater degree than any of us realize. ABC has very greatly weakened our sexual self control and increased a self centered view of sex. Sex rules over us and we gladly accept the enslaving. Celibacy is mocked and held up as unattainable or even dehumanizing. These and many social ills are consequences of making “sex without consequences“ our god. And we call this “freedom”. Looks like slavery and weakness to me. God, help us see. God, make us holy!
 
rosejmj said:
Yed most should but then the desire for alcohol is much different than the desire for physical intimacy
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An alcoholic can never go back to controlled drinking. If someone can do that then they are not alcoholic.

And why did you include a desire for alcohol with a desire for physical intimacy together if you know they are not the same?
 
Okay, I had not remembered that. But my main point had to do with the implication that alcoholics could possibly someday drink again safely, which is simply not the case.
 
That is fair and I understand your point and it definitely applied to most alcohólicos
 
Sorry to quibble, but it is not “most”, it is “all”. If someone can ever drink in a safe controlled manner they are not alcoholic.
 
Well I trust you know more about the matter than myself. I think I had just heard that rarely someone could learn to drink without problem but maybe they weren’t alcoholics
 
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