Founder of "Positive" Muslim TV Channel charged with beheading wife...

[sedonaman]

You know and I know there is no church doctrine. Thats a good thing. Has the church committed heinous crimes over the centuries?. Absolutely. Today there are millions of very good christians. Today there are many christians that are biggoted and hateful towards others. Many are the same ones that sit in the front pew at church on sundays preaching how good they are.

You don’t have to have something in your doctrine, you just have to stand up and say something is wrong if it is. It wasn’t too many generations ago we had slavery in this country. People owning people. A disgusting time of our history. The churches put their heads in the sand and did nothing. Thats sad, but true. We have a lot to be sorry for.

There are a lot of charges here. Now back them up.

 

[impalass]

I was not clear about what I was saying. Basically there are three groups of people. There are those who basically will not break the law. that is a majority of people, depending on the law in question. There is the second group who would consider it or do it under the right conditions. The third group are those who could care less about what the law is. The third group is not affected by the potential of jail time or what others have received as punishment. The second group may or may not be interested or affected by it. In other words, there are some folks who will always break the laws no matter what. Most spouse abusers are in this catagory.

Part of the reason was the jury in the OJ Civil case. The other part was the fact that his fame and fortune allowed him the “Dream Team.” A jury cannot be chosen in America based on religion or ethnic background, so he will not be given that kind of jury. It will be 12 people at random

Agreed!.

 We will always have an element in our society where laws don't seem to apply to them.  This is the hard core group that really needs attention.  

 Murderers, sex abuse criminals, spouse beaters etc. are the most serious of our offenders, and are the ones rightfully convicted should be taken out of circulation for good.......to protect the rest of us law abiding citizens.

 

[ralphinal]

Agreed!.

 We will always have an element in our society where laws don't seem to apply to them.  This is the hard core group that really needs attention.  

 Murderers, sex abuse criminals, spouse beaters etc. are the most serious of our offenders, and are the ones rightfully convicted should be taken out of circulation for good.......to protect the rest of us law abiding citizens.

Correct, and it does not matter in that regard if the dude is Muslim or not. To someone who thinks that it is acceptable to beat/kill his spouse, the laws do not matter.

Now, where this line gets blurred is when these people claim a social/religious right to do this. When the court says that this right cannot and will not apply, too many otherwise uninvolved people claim that he is being targeted because of his faith.

 

[R_not]

Why are you so fascinated and concerned about what others do in their country. Haven’t we got enough of our own problems to deal with rather then looking down our noses at others. if you have such concerns write letters to their country leaders and tell them to be like us.

 No I have never read the Quaran.   But I do know their are murders, slavery, and suicides written into our own bible history and no one questions why that is acceptable.   We have many stories in our own bible that are conflicting, incorrect and often questionable.   It can't be considered a non-fiction book.   I am sure you are aware of what I speak?

I can see you are not even reading the posts.

Reread the post.

 

[sedonaman]

Off topic:
We should just take care of business here.

May I point out that that is precisely what the victims of 9/11 were doing?
And may I point out that was precisely what American ships were doing when they were attacked by the Barbary Pirates? What did Thomas Jefferson John Adams learn when they went to see Tripoli’s ambassador to London in March 1785 to inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers? They were informed that,

“It was written in the Koran, that all nations were sinners who should not have acknowledged their [Muslims’] authority, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Muslim who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, nor in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia; nor did the state of Israel exist at the time. The US was merely minding its own business.

 

[sedonaman]

No I have never read the Quaran. But I do know their are murders, slavery, and suicides written into our own bible history and no one questions why that is acceptable. We have many stories in our own bible that are conflicting, incorrect and often questionable. It can’t be considered a non-fiction book. I am sure you are aware of what I speak?

If you have not read the Qur’an, how do we know you have even read the Bible and are not just repeating what other Muslims told you?

 

[impalass]

There are a lot of charges here. Now back them up.

Off topic:

Just to name a few: The inquistion period from 1200-1500 AD where over 60,000 unarmed orthodox catholics who the church said committed heresey were attacked and murdered men, women and children. That was instituted by Pope Innocent III.

There is a long list for the next 300 years after this one. Hundreds of thousands innoncent people murdered/tortured who publically opposed the accepted Dogma of the Roman catholic church. The Popes of this time ordered this. Please google Inquisition. I am sure you are well aware of this.

Joan of Arc…burned at the stake because she publically opposed the teachings of the church. Centuries later…church was wrong! Lets make her a saint now. UNBELIEVABLE!

Galileo: Condemned to house arrest for the rest of his life because he rightfully told the vatican that the earth rotates around the sun, not the other way around as the Pope had indicated. It took until just recently for the Pope to apologize to Galileo for the church being wrong. Now wouldn’t you believe that if the Pope is Gods spokesperson on earth that God would have told the Popes previous that the sun does not rotate around the earth and save all this fuss.
I can't make all this stuff up, this is just a tiny bit of the dark history of christianity within the catholic church. Many don't want to here this but I like to give both sides of story.

 

[ralphinal]

Off topic:

Just to name a few: The inquistion period from 1200-1500 AD where over 60,000 unarmed orthodox catholics who the church said committed heresey were attacked and murdered men, women and children. That was instituted by Pope Innocent III.

There is a long list for the next 300 years after this one. Hundreds of thousands innoncent people murdered/tortured who publically opposed the accepted Dogma of the Roman catholic church. The Popes of this time ordered this. Please google Inquisition. I am sure you are well aware of this.

Joan of Arc…burned at the stake because she publically opposed the teachings of the church. Centuries later…church was wrong! Lets make her a saint now. UNBELIEVABLE!

Galileo: Condemned to house arrest for the rest of his life because he rightfully told the vatican that the earth rotates around the sun, not the other way around as the Pope had indicated. It took until just recently for the Pope to apologize to Galileo for the church being wrong. Now wouldn’t you believe that if the Pope is Gods spokesperson on earth that God would have told the Popes previous that the sun does not rotate around the earth and save all this fuss.

  I can't make all this stuff up, this is just a tiny bit of the dark history of christianity within the catholic church.  Many don't want to here this but I like to give  both sides of story.

I am going to flag you on two of these. Who burned Joan of Arc? And Galileo WAS NOT under house arrest for teaching heliocentrism. He was in trouble for trying to alter Bible verses to reflect it. There was no issue with heliocentrism, it was in trying to change the faith.

 

[impalass]

If you have not read the Qur’an, how do we know you have even read the Bible and are not just repeating what other Muslims told you?

   Off topic:


  The only Muslims I know are the two guys who run the Sunoco gas station a few blocks from my house.  Good guys.  I have learned a lot about their culture from talking to them.  

   Do you want me to post a long laundry list of conflicting, incorrect and questionable quotes from the Bible?   I can and will do that........let me know.

 

[R_not]

If you have not read the Qur’an, how do we know you have even read the Bible and are not just repeating what other Muslims told you?

EXACTLY!! (and thanks for your previous post to me)

I just thought of that and you beat me to the punch.

I can’t believe that we are discussing something with someone who doesn’t even know what their texts contain. This leads me to believe that he doesn’t know what the Bible says either.

And this has been a VERY common thing for not only the muslims to use as an excuse, but our own left wingers/liberals to use about the Bible vs the koran.

This also leads me to believe that he doesn’t know the history of jihad either. And how it is carried out in our lands.

 

[impalass]

I am going to flag you on two of these. Who burned Joan of Arc? And Galileo WAS NOT under house arrest for teaching heliocentrism. He was in trouble for trying to alter Bible verses to reflect it. There was no issue with heliocentrism, it was in trying to change the faith.

Your reading whatever the catholic newspaper stories spun about that story.   

 1992 The Vatican Science panel told by the Pope that Galileo was correct and Pope John II acknowledged in speach in October 1992 that the Roman Cathoic church had had erred in condenming Galileo 359 years before for asserting that the earth revolves around the sun.  1633 Galileo was force to recant his scientific findings to avoid being burned at the stake and spent his remaining 8 years under house arrest.

 I know what I believe............you can believe whatever you want.

 

[impalass]

EXACTLY!! (and thanks for your previous post to me)

I just thought of that and you beat me to the punch.

I can’t believe that we are discussing something with someone who doesn’t even know what their texts contain. This leads me to believe that he doesn’t know what the Bible says either.

And this has been a VERY common thing for not only the muslims to use as an excuse, but our own left wingers/liberals to use about the Bible vs the koran.

This also leads me to believe that he doesn’t know the history of jihad either. And how it is carried out in our lands.

Sounds like your a real expert. Do you believe all that is written in the bible to be true? Old/New testament.

 

[impalass]

EXACTLY!! (and thanks for your previous post to me)

I just thought of that and you beat me to the punch.

I can’t believe that we are discussing something with someone who doesn’t even know what their texts contain. This leads me to believe that he doesn’t know what the Bible says either.

And this has been a VERY common thing for not only the muslims to use as an excuse, but our own left wingers/liberals to use about the Bible vs the koran.

This also leads me to believe that he doesn’t know the history of jihad either. And how it is carried out in our lands.

I believe with statements like yours you are the biggest christian bigot on this forum. Bar none.

 

[sedonaman]

I disagree. If we criticize others then we are open to our own criticism. You can’t have it one way. America might be the best country in the world, but america is not all that squeaky clean.

America would be in a better moral position if it were “squeaky clean” as you put it, but since no people are perfect, you can always point to some shortcoming or other to justify some bad act by another. Attempting this is sometimes called “two wrongs don’t make a right.” More technically correct is that it is a fallacy in thinking:

Avoiding the Issue

A reasoner who is supposed to address an issue but instead goes off on a tangent has committed the fallacy of Avoiding the Issue. Also called missing the point, straying off the subject, digressing, and not sticking to the issue.

Example:

A city official is charged with corruption for awarding contracts to his wife's consulting firm. In speaking to a reporter about why he is innocent, the city official talks only about his wife's conservative wardrobe, the family's lovable dog, and his own accomplishments in supporting Little League baseball.

Avoiding the Question

The fallacy of Avoiding the Question is a type of fallacy of Avoiding the Issue that occurs when the issue is how to answer some question. The fallacy is committed when someone’s answer doesn’t really respond to the question asked.

Example:

Question: Would the Oakland Athletics be in first place if they were to win tomorrow’s game?

Answer: What makes you think they’ll ever win tomorrow’s game?

Ref: iep.utm.edu/f/fallacy.htm#Avoiding%20the%20Issue

The way around this is to judge the act according to some objective standard, and that standard in the West is The Golden Rule,

“Treat others as you want to be treated.”

Would Muslim husbands mind if the rule went “both ways” [again, as you put it], i.e., wives were permitted to punish husbands in a similar manner for disagreeing with them? I don’t think so.

The concept of The Golden Rule is completely absent in Islam, which is my whole point. And that is why I don’t consider Islam a religion, no matter how many times Muslims pray every day.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Correct, and it does not matter in that regard if the dude is Muslim or not. To someone who thinks that it is acceptable to beat/kill his spouse, the laws do not matter.

Now, where this line gets blurred is when these people claim a social/religious right to do this. When the court says that this right cannot and will not apply, too many otherwise uninvolved people claim that he is being targeted because of his faith.

Because in his religion - beheading is a norm.

Otherwise - if he sought to kill his wife - like most men on impulse and not through consideration - he would have merely just shot her.

Beheading is never heard of in the West.

It is a Muslim characteristic. And evidently one he believes in.

THESE are the FRUITS of ISLAM…no matter what he was protesting on tv…violence is in fact the way of life for Islamics.

 

[ralphinal]

Your reading whatever the catholic newspaper stories spun about that story.

 1992 The Vatican Science panel told by the Pope that Galileo was correct and Pope John II acknowledged in speach in October 1992 that the Roman Cathoic church had had erred in condenming Galileo 359 years before for asserting that the earth revolves around the sun.  1633 Galileo was force to recant his scientific findings to avoid being burned at the stake and spent his remaining 8 years under house arrest.

 I know what I believe............you can believe whatever you want.

You did not answer the one about who burned Joan of Arc. Yes, it was an ecclesiastical court that found her guilty, but that court was made up of English clerics. The Pope reversed the decision and found her innocent 24 years later. The “Church” did not killer her then change its mind. Polical people killed her and the Church saw that.

I do not like to post from Wikipedia, but I will on Galileo

controversy engendered by Galileo’s presentation of heliocentrism as proven fact resulted in the Catholic Church’s prohibiting its advocacy as empirically proven fact, because it was not empirically proven at the time and was contrary to the literal meaning of Scripture

Notice that there were TWO issues. First, it was not proven as fact at that time and SECOND, it was against the literal view of SCriptures.

Galileo was not above taking a hard line and making stuff up to support it. Einstin noticed that as well. Look at what Galelio said about the tides.

Galileo did, however, openly question the veracity of the Book of Joshua (10:13) wherein the sun and moon were said to have remained unmoved for three days to allow a victory to the Israelites.

By 1616 the attacks on Galileo had reached a head, and he went to Rome to try to persuade the Church authorities not to ban his ideas. In the end, Cardinal Bellarmine, acting on directives from the Inquisition, delivered him an order not to “hold or defend” the idea that the Earth moves and the Sun stands still at the centre. The decree did not prevent Galileo from discussing heliocentrism hypothesis (thus maintaining a facade of separation between science and the church). For the next several years Galileo stayed well away from the controversy. He revived his project of writing a book on the subject, encouraged by the election of Cardinal Barberini as Pope Urban VIII in 1623. Barberini was a friend and admirer of Galileo, and had opposed the condemnation of Galileo in 1616. The book, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, was published in 1632, with formal authorization from the Inquisition and papal permission.

Pope Urban VIII personally asked Galileo to give arguments for and against heliocentrism in the book, and to be careful not to advocate heliocentrism. He made another request, that his own views on the matter be included in Galileo’s book. Only the latter of those requests was fulfilled by Galileo. Whether unknowingly or deliberately, Simplicio, the defender of the Aristotelian Geocentric view in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, was often caught in his own errors and sometimes came across as a fool. This fact made Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems appear as an advocacy book; an attack on Aristotelian geocentrism and defense of the Copernican theory. To add insult to injury, Galileo put the words of Pope Urban VIII into the mouth of Simplicio. Most historians agree Galileo did not act out of malice and felt blindsided by the reaction to his book.[87] However, the Pope did not take the suspected public ridicule lightly, nor the blatant bias. Galileo had alienated one of his biggest and most powerful supporters, the Pope, and was called to Rome to defend his writings.

Notice that the Pope ALLOWED him to teach heliocentrism as a hypothesis, not as a fact, as it was not proven to be one. Further, the Pope LIKED the man.

The attack on the Church because of the treatment of Galileo is bunk.

 

[sedonaman]

Off topic:
The only Muslims I know are the two guys who run the Sunoco gas station a few blocks from my house. Good guys. I have learned a lot about their culture from talking to them.

Oh, great. You know two Muslims who are nice, therefore Islam is good. Talk about taking two data points and extrapolating a whole universe. Wonderful logic. Too bad you don’t use the same thinking when it comes to Christians.

   Do you want me to post a long laundry list of conflicting, incorrect and questionable quotes from the Bible?   I can and will do that........let me know.

Not that it proves Islam is good, but why not?

 

[R_not]

Your reading whatever the catholic newspaper stories spun about that story.

 1992 The Vatican Science panel told by the Pope that Galileo was correct and Pope John II acknowledged in speach in October 1992 that the Roman Cathoic church had had erred in condenming Galileo 359 years before for asserting that the earth revolves around the sun.  1633 Galileo was force to recant his scientific findings to avoid being burned at the stake and spent his remaining 8 years under house arrest.

 I know what I believe............you can believe whatever you want.

I only question where your sources are coming from.

Beliefs are a strange thing. In the world of islam they are more like a brainwashing - when we first started on these threads with muslims they barely knew their own texts. Now, they just don’t acknowledge things that they don’t like to read or they tell us we are bashing them when in fact - it is their own texts.

Many are being reverted to islam under false pretenses. taqiyya/kithman.

Many are learning fairy tales about islam in our schools, and also our Universities with the muslims there practicing the above - taqiyya/kithman.

islam’s infiltration into our schools

document

We constantly hear from apologists and muslims about the Inquistion and the Crusades while they pale in comparison to the History of jihad . And most of the facts of the Crusades and Inquisition are not taught.

The Crusades in Context
and
The Crusades and the Spin Doctors

And both of those things are in our distant past while the jihads are still going on in many countries with a stealth jihad going on in the West.

If you are arguing about stuff you haven’t even read about then I will post these, and I only hope you start cracking open some books.

a couple of books,
‘A Never Ending War’,
‘Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs’ and
‘They Must Be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It’
The Third Jihad - 30 minute version
Brigette Gabriel’s talk at the Thomas More Law Center

 

[sedonaman]

Notice that the Pope ALLOWED him to teach heliocentrism as a hypothesis, not as a fact, as it was not proven to be one. Further, the Pope LIKED the man.

The attack on the Church because of the treatment of Galileo is bunk.

Correct. What did get him into trouble was telling the Church it had to change its interpretation of Scripture because of his unproven theory.

Ref: catholicleague.org/rer.php?topic=The+Crusades+and+the+Inquisition&id=83

 

[ralphinal]

Correct. What did get him into trouble was telling the Church it had to change its interpretation of Scripture because of his unproven theory.

Ref: catholicleague.org/rer.php?topic=The+Crusades+and+the+Inquisition&id=83

Exactly, and I found the info on wikipedia.

It is another way the Anti-Catholic education system tries to make us look bad by rewriting history