Fourth Maryland Episcopal Church to Become Catholic, Joining Ordinariate

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Lucky7 said:
I hear ya. At least it’s not “pick and choose” doctrine that we see so often among Catholics. I’ll take the former over the latter ANY day.
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But that’s exactly what it is! They like the Catholic position on gay people, but they don’t want our liturgy or other traditions. How much more “pick and choose” can you get?
 
Seeker1961 said:
But that’s exactly what it is! They like the Catholic position on gay people, but they don’t want our liturgy or other traditions. How much more “pick and choose” can you get?
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Key word in my post: doctrine.
 
Seeker1961 said:
So…become Catholic then. It just seems weird to hold on to your own traditions and liturgy and still say “oh, but we’re Catholic now”.
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I sort of saw it the same way, or at least make a slow transition to your new faith like many converts have. It’s a big sacrifice, but you don’t have to go through it alone like many have, You have an entire congregation and your priest there to support you, plus your fellow Catholics that will welcome you with open arms.

I think conservative minded Christian denominations will face this dilemma whether they like it or not. Christianity and spirituality is under assault by secularism and modernism in the West.If your denomination doesn’t have the numbers, let alone the strict doctrines that resist these changes secularism forces upon you, it will just splinter as the Episcopalians are finding out. I think the next one to go through this are the Lutherans and Methodists, simply because their losses in the US have been substantial

The Church has not backed down from its strict doctrines and truths. I think that’s why in recent years it has grown and not declined. As secularism and liberalism spreads, many turn to the Church. Thank you Holy Spirit for guiding us. Bless our new Pope so he points us to Christs’ light and truth, and for our new fellow Episcopalian/Catholic brethren.
 
Seeker1961 said:
So what was the reason for this then? Why leave your own denomination?
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To join Jesus Church, to be a part of the one Church with the fullness of truth, to be part of the one, holy, catholic, apostolic Church.
 
Lucky7 said:
Between Anglicans and Catholics? Not really. Those coming in may agree with the Catholic Faith, but generally speaking there are major differences between Episcopalian beliefs and Catholic beliefs.
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I would politely say “really” my friend. In general, looking at the entire Anglican/Episcopalian faith, we both believe in the Trinity, in Jesus as the Son of God, in the Sacraments, in the Real Presence, in the Virgin Birth, in the 10 commandments, the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, in salvation through the cross.

We disagree in the role of the Pope, in Apostolic Succession, in female ordination, etc. But these disagreements can be resolved through teaching and understanding and very quickly and easily - if not, then there would be no ordinate to bring our Anglican brothers and sisters back to the Church.
 
TheDoctor said:
I would politely say “really” my friend. In general, looking at the entire Anglican/Episcopalian faith, we both believe in the Trinity, in Jesus as the Son of God, in the Sacraments, in the Real Presence, in the Virgin Birth, in the 10 commandments, the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, in salvation through the cross.

We disagree in the role of the Pope, in Apostolic Succession, in female ordination, etc. But these disagreements can be resolved through teaching and understanding and very quickly and easily - if not, then there would be no ordinate to bring our Anglican brothers and sisters back to the Church.
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They do not have the same teaching on the Real Presence. Do they have tabernacles? No. And do they even truly have the Real Presence? The priests are not validly ordained to confect the Body and Blood.

Also, confession? What Episcopalian Church has sacramental confession?

Most of what you have posted many other fractured, Protestant denominations believe. The only other church that comes close to the Catholic Church is the Orthodox Church.
 
Lucky7 said:
They do not have the same teaching on the Real Presence. Do they have tabernacles? No. And do they even truly have the Real Presence? The priests are not validly ordained to confect the Body and Blood.

Also, confession? What Episcopalian Church has sacramental confession?

Most of what you have posted many other fractured, Protestant denominations believe. The only other church that comes close to the Catholic Church is the Orthodox Church.
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So…I’m confused here. You list the teachings where the Episcopal church differs here, and then you tell me that doctrinally we are the same??

The last I checked the Real Presence is a doctrine, Priestly Ordination is a doctrine, sacramental confession is a doctrine…if they’re not aligning with these, is that not “picking and choosing”? And if they are aligning with all these, then why not just take it all?
 
Seeker1961 said:
So…I’m confused here. You list the teachings where the Episcopal church differs here, and then you tell me that doctrinally we are the same??

The last I checked the Real Presence is a doctrine, Priestly Ordination is a doctrine, sacramental confession is a doctrine…if they’re not aligning with these, is that not “picking and choosing”? And if they are aligning with all these, then why not just take it all?
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NO, they ARE converting on these matters. The only thing they are keeping is their liturgy, etc. Hopefully that cleared it up. Now go back and re-read my posts. They should make more sense now.
 
I think the confusion is talking about the Anglican Church (my posts comparing doctrine) not this particular church which is looking to convert to the RCC.
 
Lucky7 said:
They do not have the same teaching on the Real Presence. Do they have tabernacles? No. And do they even truly have the Real Presence? The priests are not validly ordained to confect the Body and Blood.

Also, confession? What Episcopalian Church has sacramental confession?

Most of what you have posted many other fractured, Protestant denominations believe. The only other church that comes close to the Catholic Church is the Orthodox Church.
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  1. Yes, Anglicans in general believe in the real presence. (I hate to use wiki as a source but this is in line with other information I have found):Anglicans generally and officially believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, but the specific form of that belief range from transubstantiation or metousiosis, sometimes even with Eucharistic adoration (mainly high church Anglo-Catholics), to belief in a “pneumatic” presence (mainly low church Anglicans).
  2. Yes, Anglican churches have tabernacles.
  3. No, they do not actually have the body and blood of Christ because they lack valid Apostolic succession therefore their priests have an invalid ordination. That does not change though what they believe as a fundamental truth, i.e. the real presence.
  4. Yes, Anglican’s have confession. Mostly it is done on the congregation level but it can also be done individually. While the absolution is invalid because they don’t have valid priests, their belief in the sacrament is closer to ours than further away.
In terms of “coming close”, the Orthodox are of course the closest as they have a valid priesthood. Anglicans hold many of the same fundamental beliefs that we do though and are, I believe, much closer to Catholic than any other protestant denomination - precisely the reason the Pope was able to create a method to receive them back into the Church relatively easy.

There is more that we have in common that that which separates us. Hopefully, one day we will all be one.
 
Lucky7 said:
I think the confusion is talking about the Anglican Church (my posts comparing doctrine) not this particular church which is looking to convert to the RCC.
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Ok, so do Episcoplians believe in the Real Presence? Do they believe in Sacramental Confession? I was always under the impression that they did not.
 
Seeker1961 said:
Ok, so do Episcoplians believe in the Real Presence? Do they believe in Sacramental Confession? I was always under the impression that they did not.
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According to The Doctor they do, but I still disagree, As a whole, the Episcoplaian Chruch is not uniform on any of these beliefs. Their understanding of these things are also not in line with catholic teaching. So, converting to the Catholic Faith isn’t as simple as some would suggest.
 
Seeker1961 said:
So…become Catholic then. It just seems weird to hold on to your own traditions and liturgy and still say “oh, but we’re Catholic now”.
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Many of their liturgical traditions are Catholic in origin and stem from the time before they split from the Church. There are dozens of liturgical variations in the Catholic Church, why would you be concerned about one more? In reality, this is restoring a liturgical tradition which was lost when the Church of England split from Rome in the first place.
 
Seeker1961 said:
But that’s exactly what it is! They like the Catholic position on gay people, but they don’t want our liturgy or other traditions. How much more “pick and choose” can you get?
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Pope Benedict disagreed, and so did Blessed John Paul II.
 
this is wonderful news indeed. i would say welcome to all our to be new brothers and sisters in the the one, holy apostolic Church.

im so glad that you are all coming home…

i wish you all the very best in doing so… 👍
 
jwinch2 said:
Many of their liturgical traditions are Catholic in origin and stem from the time before they split from the Church. There are dozens of liturgical variations in the Catholic Church, why would you be concerned about one more? In reality, this is restoring a liturgical tradition which was lost when the Church of England split from Rome in the first place.
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I’m not against it or anything, I’m just curious. If this is the decision that they feel God has led them to, who am I to say they shouldn’t do it?
 
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