Fox News opinion piece BLASTS Pope Francis as “the Catholic Church’s Obama” [Fr. Z]

[Havard]

Okay, would you agree with this though?:

Anyone who lauds the Pope because he happens to fit their political motives, whether liberal or conservative, is exalting him for the wrong reason.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Okay, would you agree with this though?:

Anyone who lauds the Pope because he happens to fit their political motives, whether liberal or conservative, is exalting him for the wrong reason.

Of courseYes. However there appears to be a “take your hands off of my Pope” sentiment being displayed amongst conservative catholics whenever the Left genuinely admires something Christlike the Pope has done. They are attracted to the light, lets not alienate them further by turning a great story about how the Pope commits a corporal work of mercy into an opportunity to be stubborn and decry the left for supporting gay marriage/abortion.

Lets kill em with kindness and with time let them see how all the things pope does is based on a profound respect and love for all human life. We are squandering opportunities to unite by being too “obsessed” with the sin the are beholden to.

 

[Havard]

Of courseYes. However there appears to be a “take your hands off of my Pope” sentiment being displayed amongst conservative catholics whenever the Left genuinely admires something Christlike the Pope has done. They are attracted to the light, lets not alienate them further by turning a great story about how the Pope commits a corporal work of mercy into an opportunity to be stubborn and decry the left for supporting gay marriage/abortion.

Lets kill em with kindness and with time let them see how all the things pope does is based on a profound respect and love for all human life. We are squandering opportunities to unite by being too “obsessed” with the sin the are beholden to.

You are right that we shouldn’t alienate them. But we are imperfect mortals.

Someone says “this Pope is a breath of fresh air”, anyone who loved any of the Popes before him are going to feel defensive.

It would be nice if those of us who are already in the fold would have immense perspective and patience, but being in the fold doesn’t mean we’re not still irrational, emotional sinners.

 

[Birdpreacher]

You are right that we shouldn’t alienate them. But we are imperfect mortals.

Someone says “this Pope is a breath of fresh air”, anyone who loved any of the Popes before him are going to feel defensive.

It would be nice if those of us who are already in the fold would have immense perspective and patience, but being in the fold doesn’t mean we’re not still irrational, emotional sinners.

fair point, dosent help when you see both sides playing the Pope for political purposes as you stated previously.

 

[freeRadical]

He is rather supporting a more liberal-style capitalism that uses government involvement and regulation to force businesses to pay just wages, limit the idolatry of wealth, and reduce the income gap.

If that were true then that would mean he is against having a free market.

I don’t know why people put so much faith in the government. Has history taught us nothing?

 

[Birdpreacher]

If that were true then that would mean he is against having a free market.

I don’t know why people put so much faith in the government. Has history taught us nothing?

yeah free markets unregulated…what can go wrong

 

[freeRadical]

yeah free markets unregulated…what can go wrong

Government interference…what could go wrong?

 

[Birdpreacher]

i like govt interference. it makes sure that some idiot won’t deny me access to the market based on me being mexican american.

 

[freeRadical]

What market would you be denied access to without the government? And who would be denying you?

 

[Birdpreacher]

What market would you be denied access to without the government? And who would be denying you?

the american market prior to the fair housing act. beforehand homeowners could comlpy with free market principle of being a free actor who could sell their home to anybody or nobody for no reason, good reason, or stupid reason.

Basicly you had homeowners righting into deeds that the house they sold could never be sold to an ethnic minority. horray letting racisim realize itself through the market

 

[freeRadical]

the american market prior to the fair housing act. beforehand homeowners could comlpy with free market principle of being a free actor who could sell their home to anybody or nobody for no reason, good reason, or stupid reason.

Basicly you had homeowners righting into deeds that the house they sold could never be sold to an ethnic minority. horray letting racisim realize itself through the market

Well, if I don’t want to sell my house to a minority, isn’t that my right? It’s my property is it not?

 

[poker10]

Well, if I don’t want to sell my house to a minority, isn’t that my right? It’s my property is it not?

Replace “minority” with “Catholic” You OK with that?

 

[MaryT777]

Of courseYes. However there appears to be a “take your hands off of my Pope” sentiment being displayed amongst conservative catholics whenever the Left genuinely admires something Christlike the Pope has done. They are attracted to the light, lets not alienate them further by turning a great story about how the Pope commits a corporal work of mercy into an opportunity to be stubborn and decry the left for supporting gay marriage/abortion.

Lets kill em with kindness and with time let them see how all the things pope does is based on a profound respect and love for all human life. We are squandering opportunities to unite by being too “obsessed” with the sin the are beholden to.

Well said.

 

[freeRadical]

Replace “minority” with “Catholic” You OK with that?

Yes. If people don’t want to sell their house to a Catholic, that’s fine with me. It’s their property.

 

[ProVobis]

Brother Chuck,

If we make the rich homeless, and the homeless rich, we are right back where we started? No Godless economic system brings Christ to the world. We do not have to shun capitalism. We must not see it as our savior. Be Jesus to the rich and the poor. Be not afraid. Be at peace. Be well.

God bless.

Good point. The Law of Distribution says we will always have the poor and always have the rich. And it’s all relative anyway, not to mention dynamic. In a stock market crash, for example, those not holding stock become the rich. As do renters when house prices collapse. And so forth.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Yes. If people don’t want to sell their house to a Catholic, that’s fine with me. It’s their property.

Ahhh…I understand your position now. You see how free markets if left unregulated then gives people the opportunity to act immorally. its just that you are ok with immorality, even if it brings about the denial of an individual’s human rights- be it to a living wage or ability to work for a living.

How do you feel about prostitution laws? If a woman wants to sell her body to buy crack its her decision right? Viva Free Markets!

 

[_Abyssinia]

In his interviews with those in the left-wing media he seeks to impress, Francis has said that the Church needs to stop being ‘obsessed’ with abortion and gay marriage, and instead of seeking to convert people, “we need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.”

John Paul II and Benedict XVI worked hard to turn this trend around, but now Pope Francis wants the bad old days to resume.

foxnews.com/opinion/2013/12/04/pope-francis-is-catholic-churchs-obama-god-help-us

Pope Benedict XVI said in 2006 to Bishops

We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently. Proclamation in a missionary style focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus. We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/november/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20061109_concl-swiss-bishops_en.html

 

[_Abyssinia]

In his interviews with those in the left-wing media he seeks to impress, Francis has said that the Church needs to stop being ‘obsessed’ with abortion and gay marriage, and instead of seeking to convert people, “we need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.”

John Paul II and Benedict XVI worked hard to turn this trend around, but now Pope Francis wants the bad old days to resume.

foxnews.com/opinion/2013/12/04/pope-francis-is-catholic-churchs-obama-god-help-us

Pope Benedict XVI said in 2006 to Bishops

We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently. Proclamation in a missionary style focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus. We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/november/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20061109_concl-swiss-bishops_en.html

 

[Veridical16]

Yes. If people don’t want to sell their house to a Catholic, that’s fine with me. ** It’s their property.**

I believe you are correct. One can’t coerce someone to do something with their property, now whether one’s judgment of a person’s worth due to their race or creed, would be in the right? would be dependent on certain factors as many wrongly do refuse someone in an immoral lack of respect for the person based on race, whereas other times do make judgment calls on doing business that may violate one’s principles (freedom of association, the buyer’s character may have nothing to do with race or religion)

This is why using “laws” to coerce someone in violation with their right to property is not as clear cut as the presumption it is always wrong to “discriminate” so therefore there is always in an injustice when the seller exercises his right to refuse an economic exchange.

See: the cake shops closing, in not participating with the “gay trend”

 

[_Abyssinia]

In his interviews with those in the left-wing media he seeks to impress, Francis has said that the Church needs to stop being ‘obsessed’ with abortion and gay marriage, and instead of seeking to convert people, “we need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.”

John Paul II and Benedict XVI worked hard to turn this trend around, but now Pope Francis wants the bad old days to resume.

foxnews.com/opinion/2013/12/04/pope-francis-is-catholic-churchs-obama-god-help-us

My emphases

Pope Benedict XVI said in 2006 to Bishops

We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently. Proclamation in a missionary style focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus. We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/november/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20061109_concl-swiss-bishops_en.html

So often the Church’s counter-cultural witness is misunderstood as something backward and negative in today’s society. That is why it is important to emphasize the Good News, the life-giving and life-enhancing message of the Gospel (cf. Jn 10:10). Even though it is necessary to speak out strongly against the evils that threaten us, we must correct the idea that Catholicism is merely “a collection of prohibitions”. Sound catechesis and careful “formation of the heart” are needed here, and in this regard you are blessed in Ireland with solid resources in your network of Catholic schools, and in so many dedicated religious and lay teachers who are seriously committed to the education of the young. Continue to encourage them in their task and ensure that their catechetical programmes are based on The Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as the new Compendium. Superficial presentations of Catholic teaching must be avoided, because only the fullness of the faith can communicate the liberating power of the Gospel. By exercising vigilance over the quality of the syllabuses and the course-books used and by proclaiming the Church’s doctrine in its entirety, you are carrying out your responsibility to ‘preach the word … in season and out of season … unfailing in patience and in teaching’ (2 Tim 4:2).

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/october/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20061028_ad-limina-ireland_en.html