Fr. Barron and hell?

[pnewton]

Our Lady has stated in, “To the Priests Our Lady’s Beloved Sons”, elocution to Father Gobbi: “The great blasphemy is that of denying the worship due to God by giving it to creatures and to Satan himself.” #405 page 602. If there is no hell then the Virgin Mary is a liar. I rather believe her than that man who professes to be a priest of the Church. It upsets me that learned men try to sway people away from the truth! What is their purpose? In another part of the book and I can’t remember where, Our Lady states that most people go to hell because of sins of the flesh!" It is better to believe in what the saints have stated and Our Lady than this man called “Father Barron”!
O.A. Manno

FYI - We are talking about what Church teaching does and does not say. This private revelation is not part of what the Catholic Church teaches. There is another possibility. Mary is not a liar because she has never pronounced a soul to be in Hell. No private revelation can ever be elevated as doctrine. This is the danger of such revelations; that we try and take something private and make it part of public revelation.

 

[pnewton]

He also openly stated that we have a “reasonable hope that all may be saved.” Is it heretical? No. Is it the Churches historical teaching? No. Is it orthodox? No. Is there any hint of it in Scripture, Sacred Tradition, Councils, or the Doctors of the Church? No.

We love Fr Barron, but we don’t think he should be straying so far from the churches historical teaching, even if the teaching is not explicitly condemned.

When the first question was answered “no”, the next two question became irrelevant. There can be no orthodox or unorthodox position on a doctrine that does not exist. That is the point that is being made. As to hints in Scripture, I pointed out two Scriptures earlier in this thread that alluded at least to the possibility of hoping that no one goes to Hell. I am sure you would agree that there are far more that allude to a rather populated Hell and that is easier reconciled. But both sides to this do exist somewhat in Scripture.

Let me give a practical argument for hoping that all go to Heaven. Elsewhere, there is a thread on Fred Phelps dying. When someone dies, even an evil person, I note that there are many who will pray for that person. Having a hope that all go to Heaven gives us impetus to pray for that, as we do for all things in which we have hope, even if our thought believes one to be a lost cause. We can have hope for any good, even if we do not believe it intellectually. It is a theological virtue.

 

[res0nfex]

Fr. Barron is right in his assertion that no one in his or her finite state of existence can say that anyone is in “hell”. None of us can fathom God’s greatest attribute “He is all LOVE!”. His mercy endures forever! as the psalms teach us. (Re-visit the parable of the Prodigal Son) But we must understand that “hell” is a “permanent” state or spiritual condition and as such the fire described by Jesus, is the "unending notion that one is permanently (eternally) removed from God’s presence (the Beatifical Vision). It is the state of insatiable thirst for God’s LOVE and know that you have been eternally removed from it. (Re-visit the Lazarus story)

That being said, I choose to mind my own salvation and work for the salvation of others for that is what Jesus commanded us to do. To stay out of hell we must remember the Great Commandment. Every thing we do for God we can only accomplish by loving ourselves and each other. Let us pray for each other and for the souls in Purgatory. Let us live our sacramental lives and cherish all the gifts that God’s in His Infinite LOVE grants us every day of our earthly existance.

Remember, the most important opinion in this life is what God feels about us for He and only He will judge us all for all eternity.

Pray for out Nation and sing God’s praises.

 

[oamannous]

I have already responded to this query. Now I find that Father Barron has in fact stated there is no Hell, according to the last statement made by --I can’t remember his name, but he stated that the priest had stated at the end of his T.V show, that there is no Hell. He’s wrong! Period! How do I know? I saw it and I don’t want my worst enemy to go there! So, you can believe or not! It’s your decision. I have knowledge of it–and if any of you have knowledge of it I suggest you speak up and decry what has been stated.
O.A. Manno

 

[Usagi]

But Fr Barron is saying that we have a “reasonable hope” that everyone will accept God’s grace and be saved. For his hypothesis to be true, God must flood every soul with so much grace that they can’t possibly reject Him before they die. You can’t die in a state of rejecting Grace and be saved, so for us to have a “reasonable hope that all will be saved,” that means God has to flood souls with grace to the point where they always say yes. Yet there is no Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or Council that even hints at this.

I’m not sure that’s accurate. Fr. Barron is not teaching irresistible grace. He is working out a corollary of free will. If God gives everyone at least the grace to freely choose Him (even if that grace is resistible), there is a possibility (albeit small) that every last human will choose God, even if only at the very instant of death.

Now, I’m not sure I’d describe that as a “reasonable hope,” but I do agree with Fr. Barron that I’d like for every human to end up in Heaven, and I believe God would, too. I’m not sure the probability is that high, though.

Usagi

 

[hazcompat]

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ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/MNGGRACE.HTM

CHARLES JOURNET
August 1957
CONTENTS
PART ONE: GRACE IN ITS ESSENCE
I. Habitual grace and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost-The Judaeo-Christian revelation of God’s love.
2. The presence of immensity by creation and the presence of indwelling by grace.
3. Difference between human love, which presupposes the being of things, and divine love which creates the being of things.
4. The ‘common’ love of God for all creatures and his ‘special’ love for his friends.
5. The universe of natures and that of grace.
6. Habitual or permanent grace.
7. In what senses is it finite and infinite?
8. Some Scripture texts.
9. Different degrees of grace correspond to different degrees of indwelling.
10. Sons of God, brothers of Jesus, co-heirs with Christ

1. The indwelling of the divine Persons is, then, always the accompaniment of grace. The two mysteries are co-relative. Grace is like a net we throw over the Trinity to hold it in captivity. Or here is another way to visualize it: when you bring into a room a source of light, it illuminates the walls; so, when the divine Persons come to us (here we have the source, uncreated grace), they illuminate the walls of the soul (here we have the effect, created grace). And if you possess grace, then the source of grace, the three divine Persons, is there too. In the very gift of sanctifying grace, says St Thomas, the Holy Spirit himself is sent and given to man to dwell in him. The uncreated Spirit is given in created grace, as the sun is given in its rays. The uncreated Gift of the Spirit and the created gift of grace are simultaneous. There are differences of degree in the life of individual souls; but in each of them the intensity of grace and the intensity of the indwelling increase with the same movement.

Peace