Fr. Corapi Responds to Some of His Order's Charges

[jwinch2]

I refuse to join in the shameful verbal destruction of a human being which I read on the internet, including on this forum. All the rank speculation about his supposedly being deranged, in the arms of the devil, all of the amateurish “insider knowledge” about whether he is drug-addicted, suicidal, etc. is both useless and highly un-Christian, i.m.o.

Yesterday’s change in appearance does not signify any devolution into the grips of Satan, for heaven’s sake.

I do not think you will find statements to that effect in this thread. There have been in others to be sure, but they have also been closed down as a result. If there are such statements containing rampant speculation of that nature I would encourage you to report those individual posts so that A) it stops happening, and B) this thread can continue sans that type of behavior.

I do not share the rage and condemnation on this forum about his refusal to “come home” to his Order, given the way that they have so far handled this – that is IF he is not guilty of those charges, and only if that. That is why it is important, i.m.o., for him to respond directly to all the charges, publicly, OR to explain why he is not responding to some of them.

I think is also important for him to respond to all of the charges. However, the proper thing to do is to obey the orders he has been given and if he does indeed feel wronged, to appeal his case to Rome as is his canonical right to do. I don’t think rage and condemnation is a fair way to describe the majority of us holding this view. I think frustration and sadness would be far closer to the truth.

 

[jwinch2]

He is equating submission and obedience as to “crawl under a rock and die.” So he is going “Rebel Without a Cause,” wearing his leathers, looking for all the world like he’s going to ride out on his Harley being accompanied by his “black sheepdog” image.

That is an interesting observation Juliane. I did not equate his choice of clothing with the defiance he has shown towards his superiors. I’m not sure if was intentional or not but I suppose it certainly could have been meant to convey some sort of anti-establishment or rebel attitude.

I frankly had not considered it in that light.

Interesting…

 

[jwinch2]

This is an interesting article on the video at hand.

patheos.com/community/deaconsbench/2011/07/08/the-corapi-case-what-was-said-and-what-wasnt/
Deacon Greg Kandra:

There’s been a lot of back-and-forth over the last several hours about John Corapi’s response yesterday to the SOLT statement of 5 July, summarizing the order’s findings and directing him, under obedience, to return to the order and live in community.

It might be useful for all who are interested to see what exactly was said — and what wasn’t.

Below is a brief summary, based purely on what is contained in the SOLT press release and in John Corapi’s response.

What the SOLT said:

He did have sexual relations and years of cohabitation (in California and Montana) with a woman known to him, when the relationship began, as a prostitute;

What Corapi said:

I have never had any promiscuous or even inappropriate relations with her. Never.

N.B. He does not make clear who the “her” is, and does not directly address the issue of cohabitation. The phrasing “promiscuous or even inappropriate” is sufficiently vague as to be open to interpretation.

What the SOLT said:

He repeatedly abused alcohol and drugs.

What Corapi said:

Nothing.

What the SOLT said:

He has recently engaged in sexting activity with one or more women in Montana…

What Corapi said:

Nothing.

What the SOLT said:

He holds legal title to over $1 million in real estate, numerous luxury vehicles, motorcycles, an ATV, a boat dock, and several motor boats, which is a serious violation of his promise of poverty as a perpetually professed member of the Society.

What Corapi said:

At every step of the way, through the entire past twenty years, the Society of Our Lady’s leadership knew of my financial independence. As Fr. Flanagan encouraged, I have supported SOLT and myself from ‘day-one.‘ I have never relied on the Society for shelter, clothing, transportation, medical care, or legal counsel and instead, using my history of success in business, set up my mission as any savvy business man would, meanwhile continuing to support the Society and many other Catholic Charities.

N.B. He does not deny that he holds the property described by SOLT and, in fact, strongly implies that this was fine with his superiors since he was “a savvy business man.”

What the SOLT said:

SOLT has …directed Fr. John Corapi, under obedience, to return home to the Society’s regional office and take up residence there. It has also ordered him, again under obedience, to dismiss the lawsuit he has filed against his accuser.

What Corapi said:

As I have indicated from the beginning of all this, I am not extinguished! If I were to commit to the suggestion of the Society, then I would essentially crawl under a rock and wait to die.

N.B. He considers the SOLT’s order “under obedience” to be a “suggestion.” This, ironically, from a man who has famously stated, “Vatican II did not turn the 10 Commandments into the 10 Suggestions.”

Finally: the SOLT in its release noted that Corapi had filed suit against his “principal accuser” – hinting that there may be more than one – and also noted in broad outline some of the accusations made against him, i.e. “Fr. Corapi’s sexual activity with adult women, abuse of alcohol and drugs, improper sacramental practices, violation of his promise of poverty, and other wrongdoing.” The “improper sacramental practices” goes unaddressed in the SOLT’s summary of findings, and Corapi doesn’t mention that charge, either.

 

[jwinch2]

I wonder what was meant by “improper sacramental practices” in the SOLT’s statement.

Is anyone aware of what that was a reference to?

 

[Elizabeth502]

I’m sorry, but I don’t see shameful verbal destruction of a human being, rage or condemnation going on at this forum. Maybe it is other places on the internet, but I don’t see it going on here. The mods have been really, really watchful of ALL of the threads having to do with Fr. Corapi. If anything seems even slightly to hint of the kinds of things you mention, the mods intervene, FAST. It may be that you do not agree with how others view the situation as it is unfolding, but in my reading of CAF - and I have read all of the threads on this topic - 99% of the participants are being genuine, sincere, and charitable in their treatment of both Fr. Corapi and their fellow posters…

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this. I am firm in my opinion, as I have read every post about him in the last several weeks on this forum. My opinion is shared by several others as well, despite it not being a majority opinion on the part of (at least) actual postings. I repeat: I find it shameful the verbal destruction. You can justify it or deny it all you want, but it is there in black and white for me and others to read, and I don’t have to comb through and cite each one of the vile comments in order to ratify my position. It’s self-evident, to me. Peace be with you.

 

[mom4mary]

I repeat: I find it shameful the verbal destruction. You can justify it or deny it all you want, but it is there in black and white for me and others to read, and I don’t have to comb through and cite each one of the vile comments in order to ratify my position. It’s self-evident, to me. Peace be with you.

Okay. I’m not going to go in this direction with you. Peace be with you, too

 

[jwinch2]

I find it shameful the verbal destruction. You can justify it or deny it all you want, but it is there in black and white for me and others to read, and I don’t have to comb through and cite each one of the vile comments in order to ratify my position. It’s self-evident, to me.

Please show evidence of such on this thread and if they are there, I will be delighted to be first in line to report those posts to the moderators so that they can intervene and stop it ASAP. I will readily admit there are things which have been out of line on other threads and as such, the moderators have stepped in and closed them down.

I actually believe people have done a stellar job for the most part at keeping things on track in terms of the facts of the situation. You seem to be upset at that part of it as well. For example, it is a fact that he has been ordered to do certain things: return to his community, stop preaching, stop teaching, stop his lawsuit, etc. It is also a fact that none of those orders are sinful so he has no canonical authority to disobey them regardless of how wronged he may or may not feel about the situation. It is also a fact that he has been accused of specific types of behavior by his order, some of these things he has contested in previous statements as well as his latest video. It is also a fact that he has not contested nor even responded to some of those allegations.

I would also point out that many of us have been out in the open about doing a whole bunch of praying about this situation. I don’t want this to come across like I am some sort of "holier than thou person or anything but I have been praying about this situation pretty much daily for some time. I offered the Chaplet of Saint Michael last night for the protection and guidance of the Holy Father as well as all bishops, priests, deacons, and religious. While I cannot speak for others, I am absolutely convinced that the vast majority of people who are concerned about this situation are praying a great deal about it as well, even those who disagree with the direction that Father is taking at this time. Love is an act of the will and one can certainly disagree with another, even strongly so, and still do it with love. One can tell hard truths and do so in a direct manner, and still do it with love.

Again I simply ask that if you have evidence of the behavior you are upset about appearing in this particular thread to please report it to the moderators so that we can prevent that from happening and also keep a decent and civil thread actually open for a change. If you are uncomfortable with doing that, send me a PM of the post number in question and I will report it myself with the stipulation that I actually agree with your assessment of the post in question.

If you are not willing to do any of those things, I am quite unable to accept your assessment of the situation and unsure of how to suggest we fix it.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

As big a sinner as I am, I have no business criticizing Father Corapi or
any other priest.
I will make the observation that I always liked him and found him
very orthodox, if a bit bombastic (seemingly) at times in his talks.
I am deeply sad that this whole thing has occured.
I truly hope he returns to his order and regains his spiritual strength.

As for that shaved head and black beard, I wish he would
go back to his natural look. This new
look reminds me of a photo of the late Anton Szandor LaVey.
The wrong look, certainly, for a Catholic man of God.

And as one who is going through a hellish spiritual time myself,
let me say to everyone (from a painful personal perspective),
“DON’T Sin. WHATEVER else you do, JUST DON’T Sin.”
God bless all of you.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Just saw this quote on Father C.'s Facebook page.

”He who follows his own ideas in opposition to the direction of his superiors needs no devil to tempt him, for he is a devil to himself.”
-Saint John Climacus

ouch…

This is the bottom line for me.

IMHO, he needs to ‘lie down and die’. In other words he needs to die to himself and follow Christ and His Church. And, that means to follow the direction of his order. Would the Holy Spirit lead him to be disobedient to his order?

“Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves.”
(Rom 13:1-2)

 

[jwinch2]

This is the bottom line for me.

IMHO, he needs to ‘lie down and die’. In other words he needs to die to himself and follow Christ and His Church. And, that means to follow the direction of his order. Would the Holy Spirit lead him to be disobedient to his order?

“Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves.”
(Rom 13:1-2)

Good points…

 

[Elizabeth502]

Please show evidence of such on this thread and if they are there,

It is abundantly evident on other threads. I have already said that I refuse to repeat the inappropriate idle speculation that not only I noticed, but several other posters. Because repeating uncharitable remarks reinforces them. I am not speaking of merely expressions of sadness, concern, anxiety,etc., but character assassination, raw speculation, claims to have personal knowledge of his mental state, his spiritual state, etc. All of this is beyond inappropriate. I will not participate further in propagating by means of repetition.

Peace. I have spoken my own peace on the issue of the video alone, and described what I thought was and was not fair to discuss. On other threads what was not fair to discuss was usually dominating. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. If you are convinced that nothing on CAF has been said that is uncharitable and beyond the pale, you are entitled to believe that. I do not.

 

[jwinch2]

It is abundantly evident on other threads.

…

If you are convinced that nothing on CAF has been said that is uncharitable and beyond the pale, you are entitled to believe that. I do not.

(Bold emphasis mine)

I don’t believe so either and I myself stated that I had seen that on other threads which is A) why most of them have been closed down; B) why I started this one with the plea at the beginning to keep things in line with forum guidelines; and C) why I am not participating in the other threads which are ongoing right now on this topic here on CAF.

If you have evidence again of wrongdoing on this thread, please show it. Otherwise, I would encourage you to share your concerns with those in other threads who are participating in such behavior.

Either way, if you have no evidence of improper behavior on this particular thread, then I have no choice but to believe that you have accused people of reprehensible behavior without proper cause and I am therefore done speaking about this subject with you, and will be moving back to the intended thread topic. If you have such cause, please share it and I will be first in line to report it to the moderators.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I’m watching the video now. His speech sounds slurred, and the production values are pretty poor, frankly. The speech just sounds weird.

And there was absolutely no information in the video. He says he’ll have a broader message. On what? Economics? Literature? No answers.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I am not certain that is accurate.

To me, this does not imply that all of the things we discussed must happen but rather that it is, to a large extent, open to the discretion of the legitimate authority which has removed the faculties in the first place.

And the letter from SOLT said he was unfit for public ministry. They are the legitimate authority. That means he can’t celebrate the sacraments in public, speak or teach.

And we shouldn’t be listening to him, buying his CDs, etc. IF you already own his CDs, you can listen to them since his previous teaching was not in error. Personally, I would only listen to his very earliest CDs, when he wasn’t talking about himself and his stuff so much. And I would caution against sharing them with others. There are many other teachers to share.

 

[jwinch2]

There are many other teachers to share.

Agreed. There are many other wonderful Catholic teachers and preachers who’s canonical status is not in question. I actually own nothing from the BSD personally but did watch his shows on EWTN from time to time.

 

[valient_Lucy]

This is the bottom line for me.

IMHO, he needs to ‘lie down and die’. In other words he needs to die to himself and follow Christ and His Church. And, that means to follow the direction of his order. Would the Holy Spirit lead him to be disobedient to his order?

“Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves.”
(Rom 13:1-2)

I know it must be impossibly hard to “lie down and die.” But, that is what we as Catholics are called to do, every day. Christ lied down and died. Who are we to think we can avoid it?

The good news is, when we die, we rise again.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Please, fellow forum members, if you have a problem with an individual poster, bring it to them in a PM, don’t report the entire thread to the moderators. This almost always results in getting the thread either locked or removed, and those posters who have not been uncharitable are left wondering what happened. I believe we can keep one another within the bounds of charity by simply reminding one another if we start to stray.

But discussing the matter in general and in specific is not being uncharitable. Many people are very concerned and having been followers of Corapi’s ministry for years, I believe that they have a right to explore what is known and unknown. I was quite captivated with his story when I first heard about him, and I admired him for leaving such a checkered past behind and becoming a priest. I told my son about him and was considering purchasing some of his DVDs. And then this scandal broke. So I don’t have the long-term history that some of you have with him, but this whole thing has been more than troubling, to say the least.

In real life, I am a person who says what is on my mind, sometimes without giving it enough thought. So if I cross the line, please PM me and let me know that I have, it is not with malice, I am praying for Corapi and all concerned. Thank you.

 

[jwinch2]

Please, fellow forum members, if you have a problem with an individual poster, bring it to them in a PM, don’t report the entire thread to the moderators. This almost always results in getting the thread either locked or removed, and those posters who have not been uncharitable are left wondering what happened. I believe we can keep one another within the bounds of charity by simply reminding one another if we start to stray.

But discussing the matter in general and in specific is not being uncharitable. Many people are very concerned and having been followers of Corapi’s ministry for years, I believe that they have a right to explore what is known and unknown. I was quite captivated with his story when I first heard about him, and I admired him for leaving such a checkered past behind and becoming a priest. I told my son about him and was considering purchasing some of his DVDs. And then this scandal broke. So I don’t have the long-term history that some of you have with him, but this whole thing has been more than troubling, to say the least.

In real life, I am a person who says what is on my mind, sometimes without giving it enough thought. So if I cross the line, please PM me and let me know that I have, it is not with malice, I am praying for Corapi and all concerned. Thank you.

Well said Juliane.

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Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Miriam1947]

(Bold emphasis mine)

I don’t believe so either and I myself stated that I had seen that on other threads which is A) why most of them have been closed down; B) why I started this one with the plea at the beginning to keep things in line with forum guidelines; and C) why I am not participating in the other threads which are ongoing right now on this topic here on CAF.

If you have evidence again of wrongdoing on this thread, please show it. Otherwise, I would encourage you to share your concerns with those in other threads who are participating in such behavior.

Either way, if you have no evidence of improper behavior on this particular thread, then I have no choice but to believe that you have accused people of reprehensible behavior without proper cause and I am therefore done speaking about this subject with you, and will be moving back to the intended thread topic. If you have such cause, please share it and I will be first in line to report it to the moderators.

Well said. Thank you.

 

[jwinch2]

Well said. Thank you.

Pax