Fr. Cutie to Become an Episcopal Priest

[GKC]

That is the history of the term. Using Catholic (or catholic) to mean all of Christianity regardless of contradictory beliefs is a misuse of the word. It’s obvious that there is a motive behind using it that way–to justify the many, many different beliefs within non-Catholic Christianity, but it is still a mistaken use.

It’s not what is meant by “catholic” in the creed, either,which I guess it why Luther deleted it.

I tend to agree. That’s not how I use the term, Creedally. Nor is it how the typical Anglican (assuming you could find one) uses it.

For an Anglican, Catholic coincides with apostolic; That is, it refers to those apostolic Churches in communion with the Holy Father (all 23 of them), the Orthodox who are apostolic, who are not in communion, the Anglicans who have retained apostolic succession (not all have, and it’s perfectly legit for you to say none have; we disagree), and the occasional bit and piece, such as the Swedish Lutherans, and such of the Old Catholics who haven’t gone all trendy. It’s sort of like James is saying above.

There’s no reason not to disagree with this Anglican position; indeed, if you didn’t I’d remind you that you should. But you need to know what it is, to do it effectively.

And yes, I’m fairly well read in the issue of Anglican orders.

GKC

 

[Prodigal_Child]

That was the original question. I think, according to the theology of the Latin rite, he still has the ability to consecrate the Eucharist and forgive sins (valid) but not the right to do so (licit). He has excommunicated himself but he is still an ordained priest since Holy Orders (like Baptism) imparts a permanent character to the soul.

This is correct.

I’m sorry, but the Episcopal Church is such barfness. They have no moral fiber at all anymore. Someone could be dorking a sheep and they’d make him a priest if he “loved” that sheep.

Cutie needed to wait and be laicized. (I think I spelt that correctly.) You don’t take a vow before God and then walk away from it. A vow must be released in a sacred manner.

 

[Prodigal_Child]

With all do respect to the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, I think it’s just plain silly to claim that “Roman Catholic” is offensive.

My :twocents:.

You’ve obviously never been a victim of Anglo-Catholic scorn or you wouldn’t say that.

 

[Peter_J]

Cutie needed to wait and be laicized. (I think I spelt that correctly.) You don’t take a vow before God and then walk away from it. A vow must be released in a sacred manner.

Good point.

 

[Peter_J]

With all do respect to the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, I think it’s just plain silly to claim that “Roman Catholic” is offensive.

I didn’t realize that was obvious (or even that it was true at all). Thanks for letting me know.

So the term “Roman Catholic” is offensive? You might want to call the Vatican and tell them, so they can change the name of the “Anglican - Roman Catholic International Commission”.

 

[Aramis]

I didn’t realize that was obvious (or even that it was true at all). Thanks for letting me know.

So the term “Roman Catholic” is offensive? You might want to call the Vatican and tell them, so they can change the name of the “Anglican - Roman Catholic International Commission”.

That discussion is essentially between the the Roman Catholic Church Sui Iuris and the Anglican Union; Anglicans are technically Roman Rite and when they come in, they go to the Roman Church by default.

The thing is, to refer to the Totality of the Catholic Church, all 23 Churches Sui Iuris, by the name of one of them is denegrating the others. It would be exactly the same as calling all of us Melkite Catholics… not all of us are Melkite Catholics, even tho’ some are.

 

[Peter_J]

The thing is, to refer to the Totality of the Catholic Church, all 23 Churches Sui Iuris, by the name of one of them is denegrating the others.

True, but “Roman Catholic Church” is not the name of one of them. That would be “Latin Catholic Church”. (“Roman Catholic” does not equal “Roman-Rite Catholic”.)

Personally, I like the term “Roman Catholic Communion” rather than “Roman Catholic Church”. It makes it very clear that we’re talking about all 23 sui iuris churches.

(BTW, thank you for saying “23 Churches”. There are a couple of Catholics on this forum who keep referring to them as “23 Rites”, despite my telling them that this is incorrect and offensive.)

 

[GKC]

That discussion is essentially between the the Roman Catholic Church Sui Iuris and the Anglican Union; Anglicans are technically Roman Rite and when they come in, they go to the Roman Church by default.

The thing is, to refer to the Totality of the Catholic Church, all 23 Churches Sui Iuris, by the name of one of them is denegrating the others. It would be exactly the same as calling all of us Melkite Catholics… not all of us are Melkite Catholics, even tho’ some are.

Anglican Communion.

GKC

 

[BareKnuckler]

True, but “Roman Catholic Church” is not the name of one of them. That would be “Latin Catholic Church”. (“Roman Catholic” does not equal “Roman-Rite Catholic”.)

Personally, I like the term “Roman Catholic Communion” rather than “Roman Catholic Church”. It makes it very clear that we’re talking about all 23 sui iuris churches.

(BTW, thank you for saying “23 Churches”. There are a couple of Catholics on this forum who keep referring to them as “23 Rites”, despite my telling them that this is incorrect and offensive.)

I hate Roman, I do not care much for Rome’s history. I wish it was something like “Catholic Church of Atlantis” or “Celtic Catholic Church” or something with a mystical name, but I doubt they are gonna change the name cause I don’t like it hehe.

 

[kalt]

True, but “Roman Catholic Church” is not the name of one of them. That would be “Latin Catholic Church”. (“Roman Catholic” does not equal “Roman-Rite Catholic”.)

Personally, I like the term “Roman Catholic Communion” rather than “Roman Catholic Church”. It makes it very clear that we’re talking about all 23 sui iuris churches.

(BTW, thank you for saying “23 Churches”. There are a couple of Catholics on this forum who keep referring to them as “23 Rites”, despite my telling them that this is incorrect and offensive.)

So you’re saying that the signs erected by Catholics outside their Roman Rite churhces, which say “Roman Catholic” are wrong?

" In a slightly different sense we call the whole complex of the services of any Church or group of Churches a rite—thus we speak of the Roman Rite, Byzantine Rite, and various Eastern rites."

 

[Ahimsa]

I hate Roman, I do not care much for Rome’s history. I wish it was something like “Catholic Church of Atlantis” or “Celtic Catholic Church” or something with a mystical name, but I doubt they are gonna change the name cause I don’t like it hehe.

“Roman” is mystical.

“Roman” is from “Roma”, the city itself.

Reverse “Roma” and you get “Amor”, meaning “love”.

 

[Ahimsa]

So you’re saying that the signs erected by Catholics outside their Roman Rite churhces, which say “Roman Catholic” are wrong?

Two wrongs don’t make a Rite.

 

[kalt]

True, but “Roman Catholic Church” is not the name of one of them. That would be “Latin Catholic Church”. (“Roman Catholic” does not equal “Roman-Rite Catholic”.)

Personally, I like the term “Roman Catholic Communion” rather than “Roman Catholic Church”. It makes it very clear that we’re talking about all 23 sui iuris churches.

(BTW, thank you for saying “23 Churches”. There are a couple of Catholics on this forum who keep referring to them as “23 Rites”, despite my telling them that this is incorrect and offensive.)

"All Latins are Catholics, but not all Catholics are Latins. "

“Roman Rite (rites romanus), the, is the manner of celebrating the Holy Sacrifice, administering Sacraments, reciting the Divine Office, and performing other ecclesiastical functions (blessings, all kinds of Sacramentals, etc.) as used in the city and Diocese of Rome. The Roman Rite is the most widespread in Christendom.”

I don’t think I’ve seen “Latin Catholic Church” used. I’ve only seen it written “Latin Church”.

 

[Ahimsa]

“Roman” also referred to anyone in the Roman Empire, from Spain to Greece and beyond, and wasn’t limited to simply the city of Rome, or even the Italian region. The Arabs called the Byzantine Greeks “Rumi” (“Roman”).

 

[kalt]

Two wrongs don’t make a Rite.

" It follows also that the expression Latin (or even Roman) Catholic is quite justifiable inasmuch as we express by it that we are not only Catholics but also members of the Latin or Roman patriarchate. A Uniate on the other hand is a Byzantine, on Armenian, or Maronite Catholic"

It seems that our local churches got it rite.

 

[CentralFLJames]

“Roman” is mystical.

“Roman” is from “Roma”, the city itself.

Reverse “Roma” and you get “Amor”, meaning “love”.

And when approaching Rome from sea the expression “a-roma!” can take on a wide and divergent meaning depending on what is in the hearts, minds and attitudes of the sailors that ranges from: body odor, uncollected garbage & broken sewage pipes, concentrated moped oil-gas exhaust, musty old B&B mattresses to inviting Italian cooking, exotic perfumes, confectioneries, open air cafes, fine wines etc. .

James

 

[BareKnuckler]

“Roman” is mystical.

“Roman” is from “Roma”, the city itself.

Reverse “Roma” and you get “Amor”, meaning “love”.

Not really.

ok.

lol, ok.

Waiting to be impressed

 

[CentralFLJames]

Not really.

ok.

lol, ok.

Waiting to be impressed

So are we. It works both ways. Do you have anything more interesting to say than “impress me” that might engender a more inspirational response? Even a competent beggar first holds up the sign that says “Will work for food - God Bless” as ‘good earnest’ before he extends his hand out to demand his wage.

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

Back to the OP.

Can “Brother” Cutie escape the Catholic Catechism which was his rule of Faith up till now by going to the Episcopal ecclesial community?

Catholic Catechism 2285"
Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: **“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” **86 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing. 87

Again, I worry for Brother Cutie’s soul since he has no remaining way to receive sacramental confession while he remains in willful and public self excommunication from the Catholic Church and who must now teach a faith he himself knows to be deficient and only partially true. He is literally one heart beat away from hell…

James

 

[Peter_J]

" In a slightly different sense we call the whole complex of the services of any Church or group of Churches a rite—thus we speak of the Roman Rite, Byzantine Rite, and various Eastern rites."

Just so. That’s why it’s incorrect (apart from being offensive) to speak of “22 Eastern Catholic Rites”. There are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches, but several of them use the same Rite – specifically the Byzantine Rite.