Fr. Fessio homily on sacred music

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Jlynch:
Steve Smith did not leave the church because of lack of enertainment. Quatemala is now 50% catholic. 20 years ago it was 90%. Only 30% of europeans believe in a higher power. You should listen to his interview on the coming home network. Catholics leaving the church is not a good thing.
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I don’t believe that Catholics leave the church. Moreover I believe that there are far too many non-Catholics still in the Church claiming to be Catholics and bellowing heresies in defiance of the bishops. Again, look at the link in my signature about Karl Keating’s view on this.

From what I have been able to determine, ex-Catholics criticize the Church for its teachings (doctrines) but know close to nothing about what those teachings (doctrines) actually are.
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Jlynch:
When I talk to lapsed Catholics or converts to other denominations they never say the reason was doctrine. The word boring is always part of the conversation.
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So are you saying that they left because of lack of entertainment in the Church?

Frankly I have found this to be true. The lapsed Catholics who have found it in their hearts to lecture me on how horrible the Church is have also found it in their hearts to lecture me on how boring the prayers are, the hymns are, the Mass is, the Gothic architecture is, the sacred art is, and so on. How much of their perception is true and how much of it is a function of lack of proper catechism … well… it’s no mystery to me. I’m an art teacher.

About Catholic education Sr Clare Fitzgerald (a renowned American apologist) said this:
To be Catholic is to be intellectual. As educators, this means we’ve got to love learning – that’s the ballpark we’re playing in…
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Have lapsed Catholics, ex Catholics struck me as folks who loving learning? Um… no. They’ve struck me as angry folks who have chosen the Church as the target of convenience for their anger.
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Frankly I have found this to be true. The lapsed Catholics who have found it in their hearts to lecture me on how horrible the Church is have also found it in their hearts to lecture me on how boring the prayers are, the hymns are, the Mass is, the Gothic architecture is, the sacred art is, and so on. How much of their perception is true and how much of it is a function of lack of proper catechism … well… it’s no mystery to me. I’m an art teacher.
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This word really gets to me: “Boring.” When someone says that, it means to me that they are looking for someone to “entertain” or “spoon-feed” them. They don’t want to have to work towards a spiritual life, so they take the easy way out. No depth of thinking - give them a preacher that can entertain them, constantly talking and rock concert quality music, so that there is no peace and quiet to truly dig into the lowest depths of you soul. Obviously, it’s a different story if someone leaves truly because they have a major problem with doctrine, but for those who leave because they say “it’s boring”, this is what I’ve observed of them. I’m not saying that they are forever shallow, but they have obviously never been encouraged to go deeper than what they can feel and see. There is a potential of depth for everyone - they just need to be shown the path towards it.

I think you also hit the nail on the head regarding the lack of proper catechism which was next to nill for most of my generation. If they fully understood the depth and importance the holy eucharist, no way would they leave the Church. But unfortunately, this is not being stressed enough and I do know a majority of Catholics don’t even believe or question transubstantiation. It’s like, since they can’t understand it, they won’t believe it. They want the easy and simplistic answer to their questions.
Ani_Ibi said:
About Catholic education Sr Clare Fitzgerald (a renowned American apologist) said this: “To be Catholic is to be intellectual. As educators, this means we’ve got to love learning – that’s the ballpark we’re playing in…”
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What a wonderful quote!!! That’s one of the facets of the Catholic Church that I love - the intellectualism in the faith. We have had the highest of all arts and intellectual thinking for centuries because we believed in giving our absolute best to God. Then suddenly, being mediocre and settling for the mundane became the “best”. It’s such a slap in the face.
Ani_Ibi said:
Have lapsed Catholics, ex Catholics struck me as folks who loving learning? Um… no. They’ve struck me as angry folks who have chosen the Church as the target of convenience for their anger.
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I don’t think they’re all angry, although many are vitriolic when they do put down the Catholic Church. But I sadly have to admit that the ones I know who are lapsed or ex-Catholics (the ones who join these mega, non-denom. churches) give the impression that they don’t love learning. As I said earlier, it’s the easy way for them.
 
fix said:
Is it simply a numbers game? What good is a full Church if folks are there for the wrong reason? If the “pull” to mass is happy clappy effete music and emotionalism then the problem is much deeper.
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Yes, I fully agree. It’s a shallow way of looking at things.

What’s also upsetting is that missionaries are going to already Catholic countries like Gautamala and converting them like they weren’t Christians. They are trying to do that in my mother’s country of birth in the Phillippines where it is like 98% Catholic.
 
QUOTE= The word boring is always part of the conversation.

My problem with this statement is that those who get bored at Mass can’t possibly be there to experience receiving Jesus in the Eucharist and the great grace of being in His Presence. After all, that is the purpose of the Mass, and music is one way of elevating our minds and souls in preparation for that. Personally, I find the contemporary music at our church is nor uplifting at all- but looking at the tabernacle is!
 
Jlynch said:
We will have to agree to disagree. I love contemporary music at mass and will fight to keep it. I will agree that having the right musicians is the key.
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To attempt to frame the question as contemporary vs. non-contemporary music is to completely miss the point. The actual question is, is the music being used in the liturgy of the proper form, content and quality to be suitable for use in the liturgy. Some contemporary music can answer “yes” to that question. But for many reasons, most having to do with a misunderstanding or outright rejection of the teachings of the Church regarding ligurgical music, most contemporary music must answer “no” to that question.

I’m all for contemporary music that is of the proper form, content and quality, as judged by the supreme model and permanent standard of Gregorian chant. And note that neither I nor the Church takes that to mean that it must literally be contemporary Gregorian chant.
 
Jlynch said:
We will have to agree to disagree. I love contemporary music at mass and will fight to keep it. I will agree that having the right musicians is the key.
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But don’t claim that ‘contemporary music’ is part of Vatican II then. Because it’s not

Read the documents themselves before you make such claims.
 
Jlynch said:
When it comes to music the church should be a big tent with limits.
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What limits? If not the Church’s limits, then what limits?

The problem with using contemporary-sounding music (as opposed to the broader “contemporary music”) is that the goal is precisely to re-create a secular sound and a secular response in a sacred setting. The goal is to get the liturgy to be like the outside world. This implies that it is the outside world which is the standard, and the liturgy must live up to that standard.

Besides being a false and destructive understanding, this approach is also doomed to failure, because the outside world does “outside world” much better than Church composers and musicians do it. By trying to adopt the outside world as the model, one immediately invites comparison with that outside world. And in any such comparison, the liturgical imitation comes across as a day late and a dollar short. And that perception is most strongly felt by those who are most attuned to the culture of the outside world, those very young people whom contemporary-sounding music is supposed to attract.

So the choices are plain. Sacred music that tries to be secular, and fails badly, or sacred music that tries to be sacred, set apart, not like the outside world. Contemporary music in the latter model is exactly what the Church asks for.
 
Example of intellectually-fostered, “contemporary” sacred music. It is an “Ave Maria” setting by the composer, Harold Boatrite. He is my husband’s composition teacher. (My husband is actually a geologist by trade, but is also an amateur musician and enjoys composing for pleasure. I’m the crazy one and decided to do music as my living. ha! ha!)

Harold is a convert from the Episcopal church. Mater Ecclesiae (A Tridentine Rite parish tucked away in the middle of nowhere) is his parish.

The amazing thing is that a while back I thought I’d take a chance and post his music on a secular bridal site to give an example of another setting of the “Ave Maria” other than the Schubert. I was surprised by the positive response I got – and these were from young, Catholic women of my generation, most of whom were used to hearing songs like “Here I Am, Lord” (which part of it has the same progression as the Brady Bunch theme) and “You Are Near”. Unfortunately, many churches don’t have the musicianship nor a choir to pull off this piece.

materecclesiae.org/
 
Sarabande said:
Example of intellectually-fostered, “contemporary” sacred music. It is an “Ave Maria” setting by the composer, Harold Boatrite. He is my husband’s composition teacher. (My husband is actually a geologist by trade, but is also an amateur musician and enjoys composing for pleasure. I’m the crazy one and decided to do music as my living. ha! ha!)

Harold is a convert from the Episcopal church. Mater Ecclesiae (A Tridentine Rite parish tucked away in the middle of nowhere) is his parish.

The amazing thing is that a while back I thought I’d take a chance and post his music on a secular bridal site to give an example of another setting of the “Ave Maria” other than the Schubert. I was surprised by the positive response I got – and these were from young, Catholic women of my generation, most of whom were used to hearing songs like “Here I Am, Lord” (which part of it has the same progression as the Brady Bunch theme) and “You Are Near”. Unfortunately, many churches don’t have the musicianship nor a choir to pull off this piece.

materecclesiae.org/
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That is awesome! And my choir has the voices to sing it! I’m going to forward this link to our choir director. I’m a cathedral choir member but I know of two maybe three other churches in our diocese who could sing this. And we have several settings of the Ave Maria which are part of our repetoire.
 
Jlynch said:
Total nonsense. There is nothing wrong with appropriate folk/contemporay music at mass. This guy wants to reverse Vatican 2. Why not ban organ music as well.
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I happen to enjoy Trance/Electronica - not all mind you, but it is a fascinating genre of music.

Does my particular appreciation for it entail implementation into the Sacred Liturgy?

What makes Trance any different than contemporary rock or folk music?
 
We still have a Pastor and a Parish Council to decide on what is appropriate. I’m not talking about heavy metal. There is much Catholic Christian music to choose from. I think many of you would like what we have done with our Mass. ( we have a chant mass as well.).-]/-]
 
I struggle with this one. I have the humility to admit, I do not know what “perfect music” is or what its “form” ought to be. I think praise and worship contemporary music is great, but I do often wonder if it should be used within the liturgy.

It certainly arouses emotions, that sometimes are not necessarily appropriate, but I do not fully know the impact it has on the human mind, to generalize like Fr. Fessio. I would have to put more research into this area to draw an effective conclusion. In the mean time, one has to obey the authority of the Church. I know Pope Benedict has spoken a bit on this issue. I’d be interested in reading his take, otherwise, there are just numerous varying opinions which is really somewhat unhelpful.

EDIT:

Also, it is important to take into consideration “inculturation” into this discussion. As the pendulum swings back to conservativism in the Church I just want to make sure we don’t overshoot our target. Africa for example has cultural music accepted. And lots not forget the bible when it speaks of sounding the Trumpet and Symbals…of course did it mean at mass? Perhaps…that is up for creative interpretation on both sides…again we need proper papal authority…or perhaps good dialogue between both ideas. It is no easy issue.
 
Ani_Ibi said:
I am not following? Can you explain?
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Sure. not too long ago, it was considered to be mortal sin, to swallow a bit of toothpaste prior to mass. Books were placed in the a public forum that would be considered mortal sins if you read them. Today, it is quite the opposite, nothing is a sin whatsoever. Currently there is a motion to restore the moral fabric, of Natural Law, and morality and to squash relativism. As we shift back to morality I just hope we do not fade back into that extremism that I explained previously. It was rather a small point in my poste.
 
Jlynch said:
Wiloww creek , a mega church outside chigago has over 20000 members 50% are ex catholics, {see the journey home program with Steve Smith as the guest on ewtn} . When interviewed these catholics sited the stale music and homilies at the catholic mass as some of their reasons for leaving. My parish has contemporary music at mass and is booming. We have been adding at least 100 mew converts each year for the past 5years. The music has been well received by even the older parishoners.
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Yep…they left because they wanted to be entertained…

More of them, less of HIM
 
Jlynch said:
We still have a Pastor and a Parish Council to decide on what is appropriate. I’m not talking about heavy metal. There is much Catholic Christian music to choose from. I think many of you would like what we have done with our Mass. ( we have a chant mass as well.).-]/-]
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What is the basic repertoire (titles and composers) at your church? I didn’t see a repertoire list on the website. I’m just interested. 🙂
Thanks.
 
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