Fr. Groeschel compared illegal immigrants to slaves

[thomasf]

I gotta agree with Fr Groeschel. We need to view illegal immigrants as people coming to this country to make a better life for themselves, not as a problem or as a funny colored people that come here to take money. We are called to love everyone, and that means all people no matter what their color or language.

 

[lovesMary]

Mexicans are wonderful people in many ways. They have wonderful family values, respect for elders, a more down to earth approach to life. I really love the Mexican people as a whole.

Many of them are irresponsible by middle class standards, I think that’s what bothers Americans the most. To a hard working, tax-paying middle class American the Mexicans coming here on a shoestring, having a bunch of kids, who are automatically citizens, and liberally using public services and social programs, well that bothers middle class people, who are working their tails off to scrape by and pay taxes.

Many communities have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of Mexicans. They tend to be boisterous and more social than Anglos, and aren’t always respectful of our need for quiet and personal space. Thus, you have a cultural clash that is very understandable.

 

[Jennifer123]

Well, he’s right.

Since they are illegal, they have little in the way of rights or the ability to appeal for justice. They may live in a certain semblance of fear of the authorities, even. Shoot, they might live in fear of the people who could and would genuinely help them. And they have to gratefully take whatever scraps off the table they can get while others take full advantage of the fact that they can treat them terribly and underpay for their services, while the better off profit from their labor and look down upon them.

Yes, too often, they are treated like slaves.

What you say is true, but my problem is that they are treated this way because they are illegal and hence have very little legal recourse. They need to be encouraged to learn english so they will become literate members of US society. IMHO they are treated like a lower caste by the those who want cheap childcare and housekeeping. Keeping them illegal and illiterate is not helping anyone.

IMHO the compassionate action is to encourage them to become legal citizens and not to illicitly condone law-breaking actions even in the face of poverty. They should all be encouraged in some way to become citizens so they will have better treatment.

There are entire villages void of men and fathers. Many men take up second families here in the US even as they are still legally married in Mexico.

That is not compassionate. The children of Mexico deserve their fathers.

 

[rosebudsal]

Many communities have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of Mexicans. They tend to be boisterous and more social than Anglos, and aren’t always respectful of our need for quiet and personal space. Thus, you have a cultural clash that is very understandable.

I can totally turn that statement around, as to where I live, the Hispanic culture has always been the dominant culture. However, one of the things that I like about living where I do, there has been a traditional view of acceptance, tolerance and accepting diversity within that strong, Spanish, Catholic culture. Things, have started to change, and while we’ve always had large numbers of Anglos live here, recently we’ve started to see cultures clashing. We also have a lot of Mexican immigrants coming in, so you see clashes between the Old Hispanic families, Anglos and Mexicans.

Edit: Not being snippy with my comment, just providing another way of looking at things.

 

[VivatJesus]

Mexicans are wonderful people in many ways. They have wonderful family values, respect for elders, a more down to earth approach to life. I really love the Mexican people as a whole.

Many of them are irresponsible by middle class standards, I think that’s what bothers Americans the most. To a hard working, tax-paying middle class American the Mexicans coming here on a shoestring, having a bunch of kids, who are automatically citizens, and liberally using public services and social programs, well that bothers middle class people, who are working their tails off to scrape by and pay taxes.

Many communities have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of Mexicans. They tend to be boisterous and more social than Anglos, and aren’t always respectful of our need for quiet and personal space. Thus, you have a cultural clash that is very understandable.

Indeed…Mexicans are simple and humble people, which unfortunately makes them easy prey for Protestant heretics to lure them out of the one true Catholic Church and into their false protestant sects.

 

[po18guy]

All of the bickering over the immigration problem seems to omit the source of the problem: The Mexican government.

Mexico is the number one producer of silver in the world. It is number five in petroleum. It has an increasing banking industry that handles billions sent back from the US. Why are the citizens so poor? Pervasive corruption at all levels of government. That is the crime.

I live in a colder climate and frequently have contact with these folks. They tell me how beautiful their native country is - if only it had work for them.

Christ’s peace.

 

[blessedtoo]

What you say is true, but my problem is that they are treated this way because they are illegal and hence have very little legal recourse. They need to be encouraged to learn english so they will become literate members of US society. IMHO they are treated like a lower caste by the those who want cheap childcare and housekeeping. Keeping them illegal and illiterate is not helping anyone.

IMHO the compassionate action is to encourage them to become legal citizens and not to illicitly condone law-breaking actions even in the face of poverty. They should all be encouraged in some way to become citizens so they will have better treatment.

There are entire villages void of men and fathers. Many men take up second families here in the US even as they are still legally married in Mexico.

That is not compassionate. The children of Mexico deserve their fathers.

Excellent point. In fact, in my business, a large percentage of immigrants send MOST of the money they earn here back to their families in Mexico. They live in this country stuck in the American version of poverty so they can continue to support loved ones back home.

And regarding the faith and Catholic practices of some immigrants, it raises for me the question of why the Church should remain quiet about the rather common immoral practice of having two families - one in each country.

If the Church wishes to speak to the issue of illegal immigration, they should take a more comprehensive approach.

 

[Crumpy]

I heard Fr. Groeschel speak on this issue maybe two months ago (April 08) perhaps, and I was very confused about what he said.

The fact that he was citing was this: OK, the illegal immigrants are here, they get a job with a phony Social Security number. The result is that money is paid into SS and these workers will never benefit from SS. So, that is, in effect, cheating them and robbing them.

He may be right in a very narrow sense, but if ANYBODY does what he says, they’re simply cheating themselves,
not ME cheating THEM. That’s where I disagree with Fr. G. He hasn’t made sense of that to me.

If that happens to them, well, I say, welcome to the US version of America. We all pay taxes and never see the money again.

If you extend Fr. G’s point, then the US is responsible for everybody in the world, right? What difference does the technicality make, whether they have made it to mainland US or not? The same humanitarian argument could be made for everybody in the world.

Haven’t we ALL contributed to relief efforts around the world? Doesn’t the US send foreign aid just about everyplace? We seem to give aid, until we discover that the money is spent without account.

What little I know of Card. Mahoney in LA, he’s pretty much in the same frame of mind as Fr. G. The prior cardinal in NY spoke a few years ago in the same way, saying that “we have so much wealth in this country” that we must share it.

I think part of the question of justice has to do with partial justice. What is enough?

Sure, we are to love our neighbor as ourself. Christ’s command goes right to the bottom of our wallets, IRA’s and 401(k)'s.

I’m at the age that my memory doesn’t serve me as well as it used to. What did Bishop Baker say in his homily on EWTN yesterday on 6/29? Something like this; What stands between you and Christ that you are unwilling to remove? What is it that you are unwilling to give to Christ?

We run into that deep gray area, where even Fr. G say that we don’t have to allow ourselves to be treated like a doormat. I’ve personally been a doormat most of my life. Long story.

Would people know Catholics in the US for their love for one another?

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Fr, Groeschel is a good and holy priest. He is also a very brave one. One who has been arrested for his prolife activism while protesting in front of an abortuary.

It does take courage for him to speak up on behalf of the poor, the downtrodden, the helpless, and the outcasts. Courage to hunger for justice.

He’s my hero!

Here’s a link to video of Fr. Groeschel talking about immigration.

Thanks for that. That was awesome.

People who complain about illegal immigrants without ever considering how they, themselves, have encouraged it and benefited by it, would do well to listen to this.

 

[LilyM]

I heard Fr. Groeschel speak on this issue maybe two months ago (April 08) perhaps, and I was very confused about what he said.

The fact that he was citing was this: OK, the illegal immigrants are here, they get a job with a phony Social Security number. The result is that money is paid into SS and these workers will never benefit from SS. So, that is, in effect, cheating them and robbing them.

He may be right in a very narrow sense, but if ANYBODY does what he says, they’re simply cheating themselves,
not ME cheating THEM. That’s where I disagree with Fr. G. He hasn’t made sense of that to me.

The taxes you pay into things like social security is like a form of compulsory insurance. You pay in knowing that you almost certainly won’t get the same value out that you put in, but knowing a) you’ll get a fair bit anyway and b) if you’re seriously in need you’ll have access to plenty of much-needed services and benefits.

Illegal immigrants pay in KNOWING that there is much much less that they stand to potentially get out of it than legal immigrants or citizens. If a person paid the same as you for their private health insurance and had only half the coverage that you do, you’d think it wasn’t fair on them wouldn’t you? Doesn’t mean it’s you cheating them, but you’d want them to get the same coverage if they pay the same amount, no?

 

[aimee]

The taxes you pay into things like social security is like a form of compulsory insurance. You pay in knowing that you almost certainly won’t get the same value out that you put in, but knowing a) you’ll get a fair bit anyway and b) if you’re seriously in need you’ll have access to plenty of much-needed services and benefits.

Illegal immigrants pay in KNOWING that there is much much less that they stand to potentially get out of it than legal immigrants or citizens. If a person paid the same as you for their private health insurance and had only half the coverage that you do, you’d think it wasn’t fair on them wouldn’t you? Doesn’t mean it’s you cheating them, but you’d want them to get the same coverage if they pay the same amount, no?

They get much more than they will ever pay in…just check out the emergency rooms and schools…

 

[marymol]

sorry I am w/Fr. G on this one. Our immigration laws have their origin in the the same late 19th early 20th c. mentality that fostered Margaret Sanger, social darwinism, sterilization of the unfit, and ultimately, national socialism. Their purpose was to keep out anyone who was not WASP. read the debates in the legislatures and in the press heralding their passage. the immigration laws are a product of the same thinking that gave is Jim Crow and segregation de jure and de facto.

Just as the injustices experienced by the descendents of slaves and descendents of native Americans have their roots in slavery and the shameful treatment of the only Americans who were never immigrants, injustice perpetrated on person who do not match a preconceived notion of the proper skin tone or proper language have their roots in the same intellectual rot that justified these evils. The same mentality that enforced white supremacy even after the abolition of slavery enforced 100 years ago quotas on immigration of “lesser” races and ethnicities.

You can’t rewrite history when your notion of PC changes, nor when your perception of justice changes.

The Rio Grande Valley population is at least 80% Hispanic, mostly of Mexican origin–and most of them have resided here since before the US illegally annexed the land south of the Nueces in the aftermath of the blatantly racist Mexican War. (and I could be shot for saying it in this state). We also host a large population of immigrants who come for a few months a year, and most of them do not work. They are Winter Texans from Canada, and they face no difficulties at the border, I wonder why? Some of them don’t even speak English as their first language, but French, yet nobody sends the border patrol to chase them. hmmmm

In the news this month was story about a meat packing plant being raided by immigration officials who rounded up illegals. They were deported, breaking up families and leaving children without parents, which the Catholic social services of the Dioceses reacted to as a major emergency. Were any officials of the company disciplined, dragged away from their families in handcuffs and incarcerated? No, even though they broke the law. Hmmm, wonder why that is.

the overwhelming majority of persons residing in this country who have Hispanic surnames, or who speak Spanish are legal, my dears, and a large proportion are native born. the viciousness and ignorance directed in posts on this and other threads on immigration against Hispanics is unchristian and IMO matter for confession. “the reason they have Spanish Masses is because the Church coddles illegal immigrants” what rot. what utter rot. I will not even comment on the post immediately above mine, because I would probably choke on my own vomit.

Excellent !

Esp.the part about the Mexican war !

Most spanish we have known are meek and trusting , hard working persons who have also given a little glimpse of what The Church and faith can do in a few generations

True , crime and violence is bad !

Hope that even there there is more that The Church and community can do !

Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for us to be freed from the false gods of money, pride and self will and to be led unto the true God !

 

[LilyM]

They get much more than they will ever pay in…just check out the emergency rooms and schools…

Have you SEEN any public hospitals or public schools lately? I don’t think anyone who uses them is getting true value for money.

The point still stands that you will get more, or can potentially get more, out of it than they do if you both pay the same. You have access to services that they don’t. If they pay the same as you in taxes as you they should have the same access to services that you do, it’s as simple as that. Including things like free legal representation if they get arrested (their taxes pay for those public defenders just like yours, after all).

 

[redrosetea]

I think Fr Groeschel is saint. He is saying the same thigns Christ would say if He were here working among the poor, today in the country

People didn’t like Christ either because He told it like it is

God bless Fr Groeschel

 

[Shoshana]

sorry I am w/Fr. G on this one. Our immigration laws have their origin in the the same late 19th early 20th c. mentality that fostered Margaret Sanger, social darwinism, sterilization of the unfit, and ultimately, national socialism. Their purpose was to keep out anyone who was not WASP. read the debates in the legislatures and in the press heralding their passage. the immigration laws are a product of the same thinking that gave is Jim Crow and segregation de jure and de facto.

Just as the injustices experienced by the descendents of slaves and descendents of native Americans have their roots in slavery and the shameful treatment of the only Americans who were never immigrants, injustice perpetrated on person who do not match a preconceived notion of the proper skin tone or proper language have their roots in the same intellectual rot that justified these evils. The same mentality that enforced white supremacy even after the abolition of slavery enforced 100 years ago quotas on immigration of “lesser” races and ethnicities.

You can’t rewrite history when your notion of PC changes, nor when your perception of justice changes.

The Rio Grande Valley population is at least 80% Hispanic, mostly of Mexican origin–and most of them have resided here since before the US illegally annexed the land south of the Nueces in the aftermath of the blatantly racist Mexican War. (and I could be shot for saying it in this state). We also host a large population of immigrants who come for a few months a year, and most of them do not work. They are Winter Texans from Canada, and they face no difficulties at the border, I wonder why? Some of them don’t even speak English as their first language, but French, yet nobody sends the border patrol to chase them. hmmmm

In the news this month was story about a meat packing plant being raided by immigration officials who rounded up illegals. They were deported, breaking up families and leaving children without parents, which the Catholic social services of the Dioceses reacted to as a major emergency. Were any officials of the company disciplined, dragged away from their families in handcuffs and incarcerated? No, even though they broke the law. Hmmm, wonder why that is.

the overwhelming majority of persons residing in this country who have Hispanic surnames, or who speak Spanish are legal, my dears, and a large proportion are native born. the viciousness and ignorance directed in posts on this and other threads on immigration against Hispanics is unchristian and IMO matter for confession. “the reason they have Spanish Masses is because the Church coddles illegal immigrants” what rot. what utter rot. I will not even comment on the post immediately above mine, because I would probably choke on my own vomit.

Puzzleannie; you never cease to amaze me with your wise words. People complain about everything and if there was nothing, they would still find something to complain about. I went to Fr Groeschel’s conference in the US and I was blessed to do so. He does not mince his words…and I guess this is one of the occasions where he is bold. Can you imagine what Fr Corapi would have to say?

 

[juanh]

I live in a area that is highly populated by Mexican immigrants and there are a few things I can add. Those that are not legal:

• do not have a social security card
• are paid in cash
  Their pay is extremely low because they have no legal recourse which is why Father Groeschel compared their situation to slavery.

Some do not have the time to go through the legal process to become a citizen because there is an urgency of some kind, usually to feed their family. Often, the family does not accompany the illegal immigrant. He/She usually sends money back to Mexico. I suggest you watch the movie “El Norte” to better understand the mind set of these people.

Didn’t Christ say, “Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.”?

 

[aimee]

Yes I have Lily…I live here after all
They get more benefits than you are aware of…

Have you SEEN any public hospitals or public schools lately? I don’t think anyone who uses them is getting true value for money.

The point still stands that you will get more, or can potentially get more, out of it than they do if you both pay the same. You have access to services that they don’t. If they pay the same as you in taxes as you they should have the same access to services that you do, it’s as simple as that. Including things like free legal representation if they get arrested (their taxes pay for those public defenders just like yours, after all).

 

[aimee]

I live in a area that is highly populated by Mexican immigrants and there are a few things I can add. Those that are not legal:

• do not have a social security card
• are paid in cash
  Their pay is extremely low because they have no legal recourse which is why Father Groeschel compared their situation to slavery.

Some do not have the time to go through the legal process to become a citizen because there is an urgency of some kind, usually to feed their family. Often, the family does not accompany the illegal immigrant. He/She usually sends money back to Mexico. I suggest you watch the movie “El Norte” to better understand the mind set of these people.

Didn’t Christ say, “Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.”?

What you say is true…

Don’t know how this should be handled exactly but should be evaluated more…

 

[redrosetea]

If it weren’t for holy men like Fr Groeschel our church would have never survived the persecutions it faced

It takes courage to tell the truth

 

[puzzleannie]

and we might want to clean up our act on the demeaning, ill-informed cultural and ethnic stereotypes as well, which I will not even quote from posts above. You would no longer (unless hopelessly steeped in ignorance) make those generalizations about African-Americans, why do it about any sub-group of persons for whom an ethnic or language designation is an easy handle? Get, and get it right, most people of Mexican descent you are likely to meet in this country are American, like you, so get over it. If you are in the Catholic Church you need an attitude adjustment especially. I am, and have been for over 50 years, since I regularly travel in areas where migrant workers attend Mass at local Catholic parishes, astounded and appalled at the unchristian way these visitors are treated in their own church.