Fr Groeschel says purgation begins now

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redrosetea

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It makes sense to me. It explains the sorrows and suffering in this life…If we aren’t able to cleanse ourselves completely in this life it continues after death in purgatory

Have you ever heard this before?. I have often thought purgatory was something that happens during our lifetime as well as the next phase of life
 
One can always attempt to make reparations for one’s sins while on earth.
 
redrosetea said:
It makes sense to me. It explains the sorrows and suffering in this life…If we aren’t able to cleanse ourselves completely in this life it continues after death in purgatory

Have you ever heard this before?. I have often thought purgatory was something that happens during our lifetime as well as the next phase of life
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I’ve thought that the sorrows & sufferings that come to us during this life are a sort of an ordeal required as proof of conformity with our set of Christiam beliefs. It’s easy to be a good Catholic when things are going as we want them to. Not so easy, when one of our parents is very ill, one of our children are dealing with marriage problems or our spouse is suffering from depression." I think that Christ watches us during these types of trials to see if we turn to Him for comfort & solace.

During the good times, He waits…for our thanks. .
 
redrosetea said:
It makes sense to me. It explains the sorrows and suffering in this life…If we aren’t able to cleanse ourselves completely in this life it continues after death in purgatory

Have you ever heard this before?. I have often thought purgatory was something that happens during our lifetime as well as the next phase of life
Click to expand...
I’m not ‘big’ on Purgatory. Teachings on the subject don’t resonate well with me. We had a young guest priest at Mass explain during his first sermon last Sunday that all of us – the entire congregation – must go downtown (quite a distance in our rather large city) every week, after confessing on Saturdays, to receive a special blessing at one of our more famous cathedrals, in order to elevate ourselves out of Purgatory, to ‘qualify’ to receive the Eucharist the following Sunday. Everyone was either confused or a bit curious about the priest’s general disposition as a church leader. I equated him to an over-zealous Second Lieutenant straight out of Basic Course, bristling with enthusiasm, but adrift in inexperience.
 
KingAlfred said:
I’m not ‘big’ on Purgatory. Teachings on the subject don’t resonate well with me. We had a young guest priest at Mass explain during his first sermon last Sunday that all of us – the entire congregation – must go downtown (quite a distance in our rather large city) every week, after confessing on Saturdays, to receive a special blessing at one of our more famous cathedrals, in order to elevate ourselves out of Purgatory, to ‘qualify’ to receive the Eucharist the following Sunday. Everyone was either confused or a bit curious about the priest’s general disposition as a church leader. I equated him to an over-zealous Second Lieutenant straight out of Basic Course, bristling with enthusiasm, but adrift in inexperience.
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It really doesn’t matter if it big with you or if it resonates well with you. It is established Church teaching.
 
KingAlfred said:
I’m not ‘big’ on Purgatory. Teachings on the subject don’t resonate well with me. We had a young guest priest at Mass explain during his first sermon last Sunday that all of us – the entire congregation – must go downtown (quite a distance in our rather large city) every week, after confessing on Saturdays, to receive a special blessing at one of our more famous cathedrals, in order to elevate ourselves out of Purgatory, to ‘qualify’ to receive the Eucharist the following Sunday. Everyone was either confused or a bit curious about the priest’s general disposition as a church leader. I equated him to an over-zealous Second Lieutenant straight out of Basic Course, bristling with enthusiasm, but adrift in inexperience.
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He was speaking about an indulgence that can be gained by visiting that specific Church, praying there, and confessing and receiving the Eucharist within a certain time frame. That is typical of the requirements for an indulgence.

Indulgences can be gained in all sorts of way (look in your Bible, it will probably mention an indulgence for reading 15 mins. of scripture). They reduce the temporal punishment for our sin, thatr otherwise has to be purified in purgatory.

God Bless
 
palmas85 said:
It really doesn’t matter if it big with you or if it resonates well with you. It is established Church teaching.
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It’s an established teaching, but as my story just indicated, like every other teaching, it’s subject to bizarre interpretations. That’s what I’m talking about.

Remember – according to the priest I listened to this last Sunday at Mass, you and I and everyone else must receive every week, after working off our penances, as assigned by the priest during our confession the previous weekend, a special blessing, lifting us up out of Purgatory, before we can qualify for the Eucharist the following Sunday. Yeah…according to him, we fall into Purgatory immediately after working off our penances after confession, and can’t even return to confession the following weekend until we receive a special blessing lifting us out of Puragatory. :confused:
 
bilop said:
He was speaking about an indulgence that can be gained by visiting that specific Church, praying there, and confessing and receiving the Eucharist within a certain time frame. That is typical of the requirements for an indulgence.

Indulgences can be gained in all sorts of way (look in your Bible, it will probably mention an indulgence for reading 15 mins. of scripture). They reduce the temporal punishment for our sin, thatr otherwise has to be purified in purgatory.

God Bless
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I guess this is where my ‘guerrilla Lutheranism’ rears its prickly head. I just can’t buy into that. :o
 
redrosetea said:
It makes sense to me. It explains the sorrows and suffering in this life…If we aren’t able to cleanse ourselves completely in this life it continues after death in purgatory

Have you ever heard this before?. I have often thought purgatory was something that happens during our lifetime as well as the next phase of life
Click to expand...
Our intentions matter in this regard…in offering our difficulties and sufferings to God, united with Jesus’ sufferings.
 
Well, KingAlfred, sorry, but I believe your young priest to be wrong. No one ever merits Holy Communion. We are allowed to receive it licitly even though we are not worthy, because it like a medicine for our paltry souls.

Purgatory makes sense as an idea; there is no real agreement about what it actually means. Is it a place? a process? how long does it last? Someday all will be made known.
 
Fr Groeschel only says it is a place of cleansing rather than one of suffering…That idea came from Dante and not from scripture nor tradition…He says according to the saints we will be happier there than we are here…He said the fire of purgatory is only symbolic, and that souls do not burn

I love to listen to him…He is so well informed and intelligent, and super kind, and charitable
 
PKinsale said:
Well, KingAlfred, sorry, but I believe your young priest to be wrong. No one ever merits Holy Communion. We are allowed to receive it licitly even though we are not worthy, because it like a medicine for our paltry souls.

Purgatory makes sense as an idea; there is no real agreement about what it actually means. Is it a place? a process? how long does it last? Someday all will be made known.
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I agree. But then again, the priest’s sermon was so long, I might have misunderstood him, even though I don’t believe I did. Sometimes I wonder why our well-meaning, excellent pastor, a priest from Poland, allows rather strange messages to be preached by guests from our pulpit.

Purgatory is actually a rational concept. My deceased father, for example, was a non-believer. Still, he was a relatively good person, in a secular sense. I’d imagine his soul now resides in Purgatory. As a non-believer, he couldn’t possibly have gotten into Heaven, yet he never did anything deserving of going to Hell, either.
 
redrosetea said:
Fr Groeschel only says it is a place of cleansing rather than one of suffering…That idea came from Dante and not from scripture nor tradition…He says according to the saints we will be happier there than we are here…He said the fire of purgatory is only symbolic, and that souls do not burn

I love to listen to him…He is so well informed and intelligent, and super kind, and charitable
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Agreed, but his rare comments about the Church’s Latin American mission are sorely uninformed and typically rooted in a semi-Marxist form of Liberation Theology. When he starts talking about Latin America, where I lived and worked for years, and which I studied my entire adult life, I change the channel.
 
I was always taught that Purgatory was very similar to Hell with regards to how severe the suffering is. Its a place of purging the leftover remission for our sins - our sins have been forgiven by God, but we still have to make up our friendship with God by offering sufferings to Him.

Yes, we are of course happier in Purgatory, because we know that we have made it - it is only a matter of time before we have got home to the Beatific Vision - we can;t go from Purgatory to Hell.

Purgatory will be defunct after the end of time, because it will no longer be needed. So, you if you are baptised, you with go to Heaven or Hell. Almost everyone goes to Purgatory first, before Heaven.
 
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Saint Catherine of Genoa wrote extensively on Puragatory. She said that the Holy Souls are the most happy because they are saved and they suffer most tremendously because they long so ardently for God who they have seen and who they are separated from.
It’s like the longing for the love of your life. Most excruciating. God’s love is what constitutes the fire of purgatory. The fire of the Holy Spirit.

Here’s a link to her treatise on Purgatory: cfpeople.org/Apologetics/page51a013.html
 
KingAlfred said:
Agreed, but his rare comments about the Church’s Latin American mission are sorely uninformed and typically rooted in a semi-Marxist form of Liberation Theology. When he starts talking about Latin America, where I lived and worked for years, and which I studied my entire adult life, I change the channel.
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I did not want to start a Fr Groescehl bashing thread…I think he looks at suffering with the eys of St Francis and Jesus
 
KingAlfred, regarding nonbelievers who died in a state of natural virtue, I always thought Limbo has been underappreciated as a place of permanent natural happiness coordinate to their state.

All said, we must finally trust in God’s mercy and pray for the dead.
 
PKinsale said:
KingAlfred, regarding nonbelievers who died in a state of natural virtue, I always thought Limbo has been underappreciated as a place of permanent natural happiness coordinate to their state.

All said, we must finally trust in God’s mercy and pray for the dead.
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I think I agree.🙂
 
redrosetea said:
It makes sense to me. It explains the sorrows and suffering in this life…If we aren’t able to cleanse ourselves completely in this life it continues after death in purgatory

Have you ever heard this before?. I have often thought purgatory was something that happens during our lifetime as well as the next phase of life
Click to expand...
It is a core concept of Byzantine theology that purification begins in this life and continues after death. It’s not called purgation, but Theosis (the becoming ever more like God) continues after death if one is not condemned by ones actions.

Rev. Fr. Groeschel often sounds somewhat byzantified in his theology.

Then again, Byzantines are a major chunk of the Eastern Churches in union with Rome.
 
Thanks for that link eelpis … love to read anything on St.Catherine of Genoa.

Blessed Brother André Bessette - the founder of St. Joseph’s Oratory here in Montreal, said there are some souls who do their Purgatory here on earth.

And according to St. Faustina Kowalska of the Divine Mercy, the holy souls in Purgatoy do suffer. It is recorded in her diary that Jesus, in His Humility, almost begs us to help them out of Purgatory.

This quote of Jesus is from her diary, used for the meditation on Day 8 of the Novena to The Divine Mercy :

EIGHTH DAY

“Today bring to Me The Souls Who Are Detained in Purgatory and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them on their behalf. Oh, if you only know the torments they suffer, you would continually offer for them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice.”
 
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