Fr John Corapi has Announced in a Video Message that he is Leaving the Priesthood

[guanophore]

I don’t think he is leaving the priesthood…I’m under the opinion that he’s not going to be publicly active in administering the sacraments (I might be wrong). The same thing happened to St. Padre Pio.

He is certainly not said anything of the kind, but neither does he expect to be restored to service. I don’t know who designed the title of the thread, but I think it is misleading. He had his faculties removed from him and has been advised by his attorneys that it is not likely he will get them back. This is puzzling, since he has maintained his innocence, but there have been many comments that the “process is flawed”.

I don’t understand why any Catholic, especially a priest, should be compelled to give up their civil liberties to be investigated.

 

[guanophore]

 Guanophone! I don't see anything wrong with the way Scout stated his opinion!  He said, "I think".  Let people think and express their opinions!

That is what the thread is for, but branding the man as “cowardly”. Maybe, if Scout found himself in this position, he would find this course of action cowardly if he chose it, but that does not make it fair to impose such a judgment upon another.

Do you think you might be monopolizing the conversation a little? It looks like you have typed at least a third of the words on this thread and its first 1000-post thread.

Yeah.

From what I see, you do too much picking apart of what people say, and too much interrogating with many questions when they state an opinion - and I have seen you criticize opinions that were stated in a very reasonable, restrained way.

I thought that is what dialogue was??

Interacting with ideas?

You weren’t so nice - or even fair - to “TheRealJuliane”, and she left discouraged - and you ignored that.

What makes you say that? How can you have any idea what I have ignored, and what I have not?

How is it my fault if someone is discouraged? There appear to be hundreds, if not thousands of people discouraged about this matter? What do you expect me to do?
I am as helpless as everyone else.

It seems you are acting like the thought-police here. And I have not followed the whole thread.  I don't know who else left discouraged by your interrogations or by your stern warnings that their error *might shut down the whole thread!*

This is the fourth or fifth thread. Most of them were shut down. Please, Eliza, if you think I am out of line (as you clearly do) the is it not the charitable thing to tell me? If I am doing what the moderator clearly directed us not to do, I would hope someone would tell me, before he has to do it. He has a lot of threads to supervise.

I wish you’d please stop threatening people that they are being judgmental and that the moderator might ban them or shut down the thread because of how they stated their opinion.

It is not possible for me to threaten anyone, Eliza, because I have no authority or power here. All I can do is encourage everyone to follow the forum rules, and the directios of the mods. There is only one person I know that got banned from the last thread for posting really nasty comments, and sending me profane PM’s. Everyone else has tried to maintain restraint, or decided not to continue to post.

It would be charitable for you to stop that.

I have a vested interest in the forum functioning well and threads being able to stay open. I always warn people so they have a chance to correct their behavior before a post is reported. I have been here quite some time, and have seen dozens of posters banned or suspended for their expressions and attitude. I have a pretty clear idea of how it happens.

It would be kind to, rather than keep blasting that violation whistle, make a polite and charitable suggestion. And a little validation wouldn’t hurt. …That way you are advising like a friendly peer, rather than policing.

Thanks for your feedback. I will work on that.

Also, remember we are told to “judge not” - not “judge-negatively-not”. It refers to not the judging of actions, but to the judging of the motives of the heart.

How can you brand someone “cowardly” without knowing the motives of their heart?

For all we know, he has decided to take up the cause of priests unjustly accused because he has the means to do so when they do not? What if he is willing to suffer the injustice of being put out of ministry without cause so that he can bring the flawed process to the attention of the powers that be? Maybe Scout is right, and he is cowardly, but I don’t think we can look into his heart t know that!

And, though charitable, I see that you often dress down someone here for being judging, and then you state your positive -judgments of Corapi’s possible thoughts/motives. Nice, but still judging, IMO!

I do give him the benefit of the doubt, and may end up with egg on my face. Though I would not call myself a “fan” or a “follower”, and do not appreciate many of his recent actions, I have benefitted greately from his ministiry over the last several years and my faith has grown. I can certainly judge myself as a recipient or beneficiary of his good works. Whatever he may have done, or is now doing, cannot undo the powerful gifts of God that have gone out through him in the past.

A question for you, Guanophore! Two statements:
“Mr. Corapi may be trying to avoid investigation because he doesn’t want the facts out.”
“Mr. Corapi may be trying to avoid investigation because he thinks they won’t see the real facts.”

Do you think both statements, imagining they are made with no facts, just speculation, which are guesses to Mr. Corapi’s motives, are okay on this thread? [Perhaps better if preceeded wtih “I think…”.]

They are, which makes discussion difficult when we have been enjoined not to “speculate”. How can the matter be discussed without speculating? We need to try.

Thanks for you feedback.

 

[Shoshana]

I thoroughly enjoy Guan’s posts…very well thought out and detailed ( I love that!) You speak for a lot of us who have not the gift…

 

[PRmerger]

I thoroughly enjoy Guan’s posts…very well thought out and detailed ( I love that!) You speak for a lot of us who have not the gift…

Ditto for me.

:bowdown: to guanophore. (Note to non-Catholics: the bowing down is tongue-in-cheek only )

 

[Eliza10]

Right now I just have time to address one aspect of this:

… but branding the man as “cowardly”…
How can you brand someone “cowardly” without knowing the motives of their heart? …

… Maybe Scout is right, and he is cowardly, but I don’t think we can look into his heart t know that!

[and, earlier to Scout:] … This is judgemental of you, Scout, and this kind of attitude is what the Moderator enjoined us to avoid…
…

With all you’ve said now, I would think that Scout had out and out called Corapi a coward! But here is ALL Scout said on that matter:

"I think his leaving is an act of cowardice. He’s always talked about fighting. Well, stay and fight…"

He is talking about Corapi’s action of leaving. He did not call Corapi a coward. Or his motive, or his heart. He labeled his action, and look: he preceded that with, “I think”.

Maybe too much typing and not enough reading?

 

[guanophore]

Right now I just have time to address one aspect of this:

With all you’ve said now, I would think that Scout had out and out called Corapi a coward! But here is ALL Scout said on that matter:

"I think his leaving is an act of cowardice. He’s always talked about fighting. Well, stay and fight…"

He is talking about Corapi’s action of leaving. He did not call Corapi a coward. Or his motive, or his heart. He labeled his action, and look: he preceded that with, “I think”.

Maybe too much typing and not enough reading?

Well, ok, Eliza. Have it your way. It seems very close to me to a disparaging comment, but I will agree to disagree with you. It assumes motives of the heart, it seems to me. The fact that he has chosen to take on the fight differently that you, Scout, or I might have done, does not make his method cowardly. The fact is that I agree with Scout. All through his talks, he does talk about fighting, and that it is not acceptable to give up, or to run from the battlefield. That is why I don’t agree with his conclusion.

 

[MoreMoreMore]

Well, ok, Eliza. Have it your way. It seems very close to me to a disparaging comment, but I will agree to disagree with you. It assumes motives of the heart, it seems to me. The fact that he has chosen to take on the fight differently that you, Scout, or I might have done, does not make his method cowardly. The fact is that I agree with Scout. All through his talks, he does talk about fighting, and that it is not acceptable to give up, or to run from the battlefield. That is why I don’t agree with his conclusion.

Is Corapi paying you for this extremely… enthusiastic… damage control, or is the service provided simply the first tier of your almost superhuman devotion to the man?

 

[MoreMoreMore]

Is Corapi paying you for this extremely… enthusiastic… damage control, or is the service provided simply the first tier of your almost superhuman devotion to the man?

This is a real question, by the way. You’re obviously good enough at separating a person’s character from their obnoxious public blunders that you could do it professionally.

Hey, if nothing else, take it as a compliment!

 

[cthulhubryan]

Okay, I am already breaking my vow not to post again, but in reading the comments on Corapi’s blog, I came across this one. How can anyone see this as anything else but IDOL WORSHIP???

“Fr. Corapi our BlackSheepDog thank you for what you shared about the sheepdog. You are definitely our wonderful sheepdog and how blessed we are to have you……You are so very wise and speak such truth. This truth you give us is so very needed and how we do need it and how we need you to give it to us. Thank you so much for all the decisions you have made since March. I hate to think of the loss we would have had if you had decided to just wait it out which could have taken forever if ever. I believe some in our church felt threatened, even jealous by your popularity and this was their chance. However, for the time being it is their loss. We, your sheep, are not dumb we are smart for we have been trained well by you……we know who to follow. THANK YOU WE LOVE YOU AND I CANT WAIT TO READ YOUR BOOK…….”

Do you see the danger here? People are considering themselves to be CORAPI’S sheep, not God’s!!! This is not unusual in that comments section.

I hope that this is not idol worship, but I do fear that these days people are too often looking for the next big thing or person.

It makes me start to understand why the Israelites began to worship a golden calf.

Please note, I am not comparing Fr. Corapi to Ba’al, just commenting on how many people can be overwhelmed by a personality.

 

[vz71]

All through his talks, he does talk about fighting, and that it is not acceptable to give up, or to run from the battlefield. That is why I don’t agree with his conclusion.

Agreed, he is fighting.

But his current actions do not coincide with the teaching espoused within his talks over the past several years.

I see a man that is confused.
He has confused himself for being the man with a message rather then a man servant to the message.

 

[MoreMoreMore]

I hope that this is not idol worship, but I do fear that these days people are too often looking for the next big thing or person.

It makes me start to understand why the Israelites began to worship a golden calf.

Please note, I am not comparing Fr. Corapi to Ba’al, just commenting on how many people can be overwhelmed by a personality.

Well, he certainly needs some balancing out in this thread, ya’know after being compared to the likes of St. Paul.

 

[franas]

I think that it’s unfair to compare Fr. Corapi to Padre Pio because of the different time and circumstances. For one, I don’t think that Padre Pio had a business-model ministry which employed several people who’s livelihoods depend on it. Fr. Corapi also has more options in this newer age. Still, what about the vow of obedience? I want to think that obedience is owed to God ultimately … so as long as Fr. Corapi ask for laicization properly and Vatican approves it, we should also accept and respect the church’s process.

Is Fr. Corapi impeding the investigation by refusing to give up his civil and legal rights? Again, he has a business model to protect the interest of his ministry. Fr. Corapi is shrewd (wise), no doubt from what he’s learned from a past (successful) litigation which the local church had failed him miserably. Frankly, I can’t imagine why a competent investigatory body can’t obtain the required information by the many other legitimate means so a conclusion can be reached. Certainly, someone had been able to act very swiftly to remove Fr. Corapi’s priestly faculties by the mere allegation of misconduct!

I can applaud Fr. Corapi for wanting to stand up and fight for the cause of many falsely accused priests who have had to suffer silently for the lack for due process. As Christians, we are asked to outsmart satan at his own game (2 Cor 2:10-11). By silencing a pious and gifted preacher by a frivolous claim, we may have unwittingly participated in the undermining of God’s kingdom on earth…

Now, all this is scandalous. I hope that Fr. Corapi will reconsider his vocation. I also pray that the “servant leadership” in the church will pro-actively intervene to resolve the difficulty swiftly. All glory to God.

 

[MoreMoreMore]

I think that it’s unfair to compare Fr. Corapi to Padre Pio because of the different time and circumstances. For one, I don’t think that Padre Pio had a business-model ministry which employed several people who’s livelihoods depend on it.

**Are you suggesting that Corapi’s motivating cause here is the preservation of his business and the betterment of his handful of employees?

I would be very cautious about rooting any of Corapi’s controversial actions on commonsensical ‘good business’… that is, if you’re looking to defend the man and his choice, whatsoever.**

Fr. Corapi also has more options in this newer age. Still, what about the vow of obedience?

Did Corapi take vows? I really don’t know, but we do have sourced quotes, where he identifies himself a ‘religious priest.’

I want to think that obedience is owed to God ultimately … so as long as Fr. Corapi ask for laicization properly and Vatican approves it, we should also accept and respect the church’s process.

Is Fr. Corapi impeding the investigation by refusing to give up his civil and legal rights?

**Two points:

I. This is actually less about Corapi giving up his civil/legal rights, and more about Corapi’s hitherto unexplained decision to release his neutral employees from their NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement). This is what impedes the investigation.

II. Corapi’s talk of refusal to waive ‘civil/legal rights’ shouldn’t carry as much weight as it does on this forum, in my honest opinion. Corapi waived these ‘civil/legal rights’ while working as clerk-typist in the United States Army–were he cited for similar indiscretions in this capacity, he would conform with the UCMJ, the military’s ‘canon law,’ if you will.

Upon becoming a priest, Corapi placed himself within the jurisdiction of the 1983 code of canon law–a code that he would have undoubtedly studied as a seminarian. He chose this for himself, and there’s no reason that he shouldn’t be held to this standard now that the weather is less clement.**

Again, he has a business model to protect the interest of his ministry. Fr. Corapi is shrewd (wise), no doubt from what he’s learned from a past (successful) litigation which the local church had failed him miserably. Frankly, I can’t imagine why a competent investigatory body can’t obtain the required information by the many other legitimate means so a conclusion can be reached. Certainly, someone had been able to act very swiftly to remove Fr. Corapi’s priestly faculties by the mere allegation of misconduct!

I can applaud Fr. Corapi for wanting to stand up and fight for the cause of many falsely accused priests who have had to suffer silently for the lack for due process.

Has he claimed that his most recent actions are an attempt to ‘stand up and fight for the cause of many falsely accused priests?’ Even so, his case in particular is not immediately affected by the more draconian provisions enacted by the Dallas Charter.

As Christians, we are asked to outsmart satan at his own game (2 Cor 2:10-11). By silencing a pious and gifted preacher by a frivolous claim, we may have unwittingly participated in the undermining of God’s kingdom on earth…

Just who are we to judge whether the claim is ‘frivolous’ or not–as many in the pro-Corapi camp have already stated, the facts are not completely in. As many who are open to criticism of Corapi have pointed out, the facts are not completely in due to Corapi’s insistence on holding his employees to their NDAs (i.e., Non-Disclosure Agreements).

Now, all this is scandalous. I hope that Fr. Corapi will reconsider his vocation. I also pray that the “servant leadership” in the church will pro-actively intervene to resolve the difficulty swiftly. All glory to God.

 

[guanophore]

Welcome to CAF MMM, unless of course, this is not your first login.

Is Corapi paying you for this extremely… enthusiastic… damage control, or is the service provided simply the first tier of your almost superhuman devotion to the man?

He has made a significant deposit into my faith practice by preaching the Truth, and has earned the benefit of my doubts. I don’t like what has happened either, and am as grieved about it as others.

1 Tim 5:17-20

17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching; 18 for the scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 19 Never admit any charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

For my part, he has “double honor” because he has labored in preaching and teaching and has done so with strict orthodoxy. I have frequented charismatic circles for 30 some years, and I know what is required for a person to constently teach the truth. It is not an easy life, and to bear the fruit of good teaching as his ministry has in the past, one must be solidly rooted and grounded in the faith. Whatever has happened will not take that away.

 

[jmcrae]

Personally, I can’t say that I was ever able to really relate to him as a preacher - his style was kind of off-putting, for me (I tend to prefer the more intellectual sort of preaching) - but I think it’s a real tragedy that he is leaving the priesthood over what appear to be false accusations. His gifts ministered to an important segment of the body, and just because it wasn’t my segment doesn’t mean that I’m not hurt by his leaving.

With his departure, the “we that is us” is greatly diminished.

 

[guanophore]

Still, what about the vow of obedience? I want to think that obedience is owed to God ultimately ... so as long as Fr. Corapi ask for laicization properly and Vatican approves it, we should also accept and respect the church's process.

What vow is that? How is he disobedient? He says that certain people want him gone, so “I shall be gone”. Seems compliant, if bitter about it.

Is Fr. Corapi impeding the investigation by refusing to give up his civil and legal rights?

That is how it appears. He asked the woman to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and gave her a financial settlement when she separated from his company. She violated that agreement by writing scathing letters to several bishops, so he sued her. The lawsuit is considered “witness pressure” which is forbidden by the investigatory procedure. He is also not allowed to see the allegations against him.

Again, he has a business model to protect the interest of his ministry. Fr. Corapi is shrewd (wise), no doubt from what he’s learned from a past (successful) litigation which the local church had failed him miserably.

I did not know about this. Is this what he meant when he said that the Church “did not lift a finger to help”?

Frankly, I can't imagine why a competent investigatory body can't obtain the required information by the many other legitimate means so a conclusion can be reached.

I am not sure there is any such thing as an investigatory body. That is badly needed, if it does not exist. My understanding from what I read in one of the blogs or releases was that the Bishop had asked at least two priests from outside both SOLT and the diocese to look into the matter. One of Corapi’s complaints was that they did not have any investigatory training.

Certainly, someone had been able to act very swiftly to remove Fr. Corapi’s priestly faculties by the mere allegation of misconduct!

They are applying the procedure for accused pedophiles to him. that was another of his complaints.

He hinted, though that there were certain persons in positions of power that were waiting for an opportunity to silence him, and this one presented itself. As has been noted, all we have is his side of the story.

I can applaud Fr. Corapi for wanting to stand up and fight for the cause of many falsely accused priests who have had to suffer silently for the lack for due process. As Christians, we are asked to outsmart satan at his own game (2 Cor 2:10-11). By silencing a pious and gifted preacher by a frivolous claim, we may have unwittingly participated in the undermining of God’s kingdom on earth…

If indeed he is innocent, then it is a good way to showcase the flaws of the current procedure, and where the Church is yet again giving a foothold to the devil to strike the shepherd and scatter the sheep.

Now, all this is scandalous. I hope that Fr. Corapi will reconsider his vocation.

No amount of reconsidering on his part will restore him to duty. He cannot serve without the faculties afforded by the bishop. Clearly he does not see that he will ever get them back.

 

[MoreMoreMore]

For my part, he has “double honor” because he has labored in preaching and teaching and has done so with strict orthodoxy.

Just out of curiosity, if your central encounter with Corapi was his voluminous Catechism series, how do you evaluate the orthodoxy of a man’s teachings when you learned the Catechism (i.e., orthodoxy) from him?

I think this is typical of the disagreement we’re seeing on this thread (parts I and II): namely, the unique difficulty people experience in separating the men who teach Truth from the Truth, itself. Only one Man embodied Truth, lest we forget.

 

[jmcrae]

What vow is that? How is he disobedient? He says that certain people want him gone, so “I shall be gone”. Seems compliant, if bitter about it.

His Superior told him to return to the mother house and take up the life of the house. He would have continued to act as a priest, but only within the house - not as a public figure. Instead, he is launching his new “Black Sheep Dog” web site and speaking tours.

No amount of reconsidering on his part will restore him to duty. He cannot serve without the faculties afforded by the bishop. Clearly he does not see that he will ever get them back.

Actually, if he obeys his superior, he will continue in his priesthood, but not his TV ministry or his web site.

 

[MoreMoreMore]

His Superior told him to return to the mother house and take up the life of the house. He would have continued to act as a priest, but only within the house - not as a public figure. Instead, he is launching his new “Black Sheep Dog” web site and speaking tours.

**Imo an excellent point, but I wanted to add something to this: statements rarely questioned are these allusions to ‘people who want him gone.’

I’m not sure if these are the same people who have ‘compelled’ Corapi to buy lethal weapons and apply for a permit to carry concealed weapons. Or the same people who allegedly threaten Corapi and obstruct his progress at every turn. However, nowhere has it been verified that anyone in any official capacity ‘wants Corapi gone.’**

Actually, if he obeys his superior, he will continue in his priesthood, but not his TV ministry or his web site.

 

[the_phoenix]

His Superior told him to return to the mother house and take up the life of the house. He would have continued to act as a priest, but only within the house - not as a public figure. Instead, he is launching his new “Black Sheep Dog” web site and speaking tours.

Actually, if he obeys his superior, he will continue in his priesthood, but not his TV ministry or his web site.

Question: So Fr. Corapi’s superior told him to return to the SOLT mother house, under obedience, as opposed to merely asking or inviting Fr. Corapi to return to the mother house?

I ask because even though I like to think of myself as an informed Catholic, this whole situation is confusing me.

My Corapi background:

1. No TV or radio access to EWTN unless I visited my relatives in New York State who happened to be watching or listening. Did see Father Corapi in person at a parish retreat some years back and was favorably impressed, partially because he had the flu at the time and carried on speaking regardless, only having to cancel one talk during the weekend to stay in bed and recover.
2. Joined the CAF Social Group the Corapi-ites several months back when news of the scandal broke on or around Ash Wednesday, believing in Father Corapi’s innocence.
3. Became super confused at the time the Black Sheepdog website appeared and still would like an authoritative explanation as to whether or not we should officially call Father Corapi “Father” or simply Mr. John Corapi.
4. When I learned about a blog post containing a reference to “oxygen thieves,” I could no longer in good conscience remain in the Corapi-ites Social Group.
5. Have I been praying for Father Corapi? Most certainly. The silver lining in this cloud appears to me to be the amount of prayers being said for him.

Hoping for clarity,
… in charity!


~~ the phoenix