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Shoshana
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FATIMAisUrgent
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I grow weary and sick at heart to read all of these posts that continue to throw out the same old slanderous garbage at Fr. Gruner. I suppose that those who absolutely refuse to research further into the matter and accept the mainstream gossip that goes around believe that it is impossible, or at least beyond likelihood, that the “official” Vatican position is wrong (I keep saying official because no pope has condemned Fr. Gruner or his work). I hope and pray that you may change your heart and wake up to the reality of the present crisis in the Church.
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snowfly
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When Fr Gruner is made head of the Church I’ll listen to him, until then I’ll listen to the Church.
Saint Margaret Mary and “obedience”
The Wisdom of God also told her,** “Do nothing without the approval of those who guide you, so that, having the authority of obedience, you may not be misled by Satan, who has no power over those who are obedient.” **
See when you stop being obedient you become a tool of the devil.
Non Serviam.
Fr Gruner needs our prayers.
Saint Margaret Mary and “obedience”
The Wisdom of God also told her,** “Do nothing without the approval of those who guide you, so that, having the authority of obedience, you may not be misled by Satan, who has no power over those who are obedient.” **
See when you stop being obedient you become a tool of the devil.
Non Serviam.
Fr Gruner needs our prayers.
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marymonde
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Your defense of Father Gruner has been very well presented.
I am one that believes the Consecration of Russia by the Holy Father in union with the all the bishops of the world, in a full public act by all, has not been fulfilled. We see everyday Russia is pushing the envelope, signs if you will, that there is no period of peace and that the country has not converted to the Holy Catholic Church. Just today Russia is on the front page of the AP :
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071217/ap_on_re_mi_ea/russia_iran
This is Israel’s response:
israelnationalnews.com/Ne…sh.aspx/138196
The problems with Russia are increasing by the day, no, by the hour, and no one is praying for Our Lady’s request to be answered because they believe a line or two from Bertone’s office that all is well. I pray everyday for Father Gruner’s intentions, whether he is in good standing with Rome or not. I believe he has weighed the evidence, observed the fruits since the apparition, and came to a conclusion that doesn’t seem so out of sorts. He desperately wants peace and conversion, not for himself, but for the greater glory of Almighty God.
Of course, when Russia proves to be the scourge of the world, as Our Lady predicted, THAT may well prove to be the sign all need to see to believe. It will be far too late for most.
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marymonde
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The Israeli news site seems to be down. Here is some of the article in response to the Russia Iran situation.
IAF Training Abroad ‘for Iran’
(IsraelNN.com) 12/16/07 The Israel Air Force has recently been conducting an increasing number of training missions outside of Israel, over the Mediterranean, in the United States, Canada, Sardinia and other countries.
According to a senior IAF officer who spoke to Ma’ariv/NRG, one of the reasons for this training policy is the Iranian threat: “The IAF’s fighter jets need to train for missions against very distant targets, like Iran, and they therefore require long operational ranges,” the officer explained. In addition, he said, the IAF fighters use long range radar guided missiles, and therefore need to practice over larger areas, like the sea.
There are other considerations for conducting training abroad, as well, he said: Israel’s skies are cluttered with civilian traffic; there are experiments by security industries which hamper flight, and environmental factors, among others.
IAF Training Abroad ‘for Iran’
(IsraelNN.com) 12/16/07 The Israel Air Force has recently been conducting an increasing number of training missions outside of Israel, over the Mediterranean, in the United States, Canada, Sardinia and other countries.
According to a senior IAF officer who spoke to Ma’ariv/NRG, one of the reasons for this training policy is the Iranian threat: “The IAF’s fighter jets need to train for missions against very distant targets, like Iran, and they therefore require long operational ranges,” the officer explained. In addition, he said, the IAF fighters use long range radar guided missiles, and therefore need to practice over larger areas, like the sea.
There are other considerations for conducting training abroad, as well, he said: Israel’s skies are cluttered with civilian traffic; there are experiments by security industries which hamper flight, and environmental factors, among others.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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It seems that there is a misconception here as to what an “approved” apparition means.
When the Church approves an apparition it is really saying that it has determined that something supernatural has occurred and that it is worthy of belief.
It does not say that one has to believe in it. Again a faithful Catholic can believe that the apparition did not happen.
When the Church approves an apparition it is really saying that it has determined that something supernatural has occurred and that it is worthy of belief.
It does not say that one has to believe in it. Again a faithful Catholic can believe that the apparition did not happen.
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Pax_et_Caritas
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He has been incardinated for seven years now.
It may seem that way to you, but without Archbishop Lefebvre, there would be no Traditional Mass. It would be gone. There is a quote from a Cardinal (that I wasn’t able to find) that says the same thing.
I understand your comment, but I personally do not think it is that simple. I think every traditional group has their part to play in Divine Providence. Time will tell. I am thankful to God for all of them, and know they are all doing great work.
Without Archbishop Lefebvre none of those groups would exist. You may not think that, and you are free to have that opinion, but I think Archbishop Lefebvre was the instrunment God used in this time of Crisis. Remember St. Athanasius… he too was an “excommunicated” “schismatic”. He didn’t stop saying Mass when he was kicked out of his dioces, nor when he was “excommunicated”. He kept on going, and was proven to be right.
St. Athanaius was not the only hero in those days. St. Basil, St. Hilary, and St. Gregory were also heros of that crisis and they remained within the normal structures. They all played a part in divine Providence, and I think the same is true today with the SSPX and those within the normal structures.
They went along with those who did make the claim and confirmed it by their actions. John Paul II went so far as to issue two Indults for the Old Mass. An Indult is permission to do what they law does not allow. Therefore, by issuing that Indult, he said through his actions that the Old Mass had been abrogated and needed special permission to be celebrated, which was not true.
It is probably a mixture of the three, depending on who we are talking about… but I would ad a fourth category. I would add the category of those who went along with it as an act of ,what they believed, to be prudence given the circumstances.
There are also probably many of them who think that the rest of the third secret was made up by Sister Lucy, and thus not part of the “authentic” third secret. That is the conclusion of the famous Italian journalist who wrote the book that has got Italy talking… and Cardinal Bertone scrambling.
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Pax_et_Caritas
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Here’s why many, including myself, believe that Fatima is important. It is not because it gave us a new dogma… but because it claimed to give us the solution for our current day problems… and the message was confirmed by an amazing miracle that was witnessed by an estimated 70,000 people, including the secular jounalists who were there to debunk it.
It has been predicted for hundreds of years that a miraculous restoration is going to take place through Divine Intervention. This miraculous restoration, which has been described by man saints, is said to be conditioned based on some event. Let me give you an example of this prediction from the writings of Ven. Mary of Agreda. This is taken from her book The City of God, which has been personally recommended by numerous Popes… and if you every read it you will know why. Anyway, this is what she said…
The Mystical City of God: “I have been informed of a great mystery, which affords us consolation in this conflict of teh holy church against her wicked enemies. Namely, on accout of this triumph of the most holy Mary [which she had just described’ and on account of another, which she gained over the demons after the Ascension of our Lord, through her intercession and virtue all the heresies and sects of teh world against holy Church were to be destroyed and extinguished. The time appointed for this blessing was not made known to me; probably, the fulfillment of this decree is dependend upon some tacit and unknown condition…” (Vol. 2, pg 290).
That unknown condition had now been made known. I believe it is the consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary that will bring this about.
Again, many saints have discussed this, including Anne Catherine Emmerick. She describes the restoration as miraculous and beyond any imagination. She first described out day to a T, then described the restoration that is soon to follow.
We were given a slight preview of what will take place when all of the Bishops of Portugal consecrated their country to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. An amazing restoration took place. One of the bishops commented that 25 years earlier no one would have believed the miraculous transformation that occurred due to the bishops consecrating their country to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, in a solemn and public ceremony. You ought to read about it.
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Brennan_Doherty
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Okay, ByzCath, do you believe the apparition at Fatima was genuine? And if you do, do you think Our Lady’s request to consecrate Russia should be fulfilled?
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FATIMAisUrgent
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“Do not despise prophecies. But prove all things; hold fast to that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21
I never said that a Catholic was required to believe Fatima to remain a Catholic. I said why not believe it? Again, if it is false then it is false, but if it true, why ignore it? Do you really believe the Mother of God would come down from Heaven to tell us these things if they were useless for us?
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FATIMAisUrgent
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In case anyone wants to read an extensive study on the Third Secret without going to Fr. Gruner’s website, you can read the book The Whole Truth About Fatima by Br. Michel of the Holy Trinity. He wrote 3 whole volumes and they are all online. Here’s a link to Volume 3 which covers the Third Secret (this was written before the Vision text was released in 2000):
catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima3/
catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima3/
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Jenny_Z
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Fatima is the Catholic JFK Conspiracy… 
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Sure
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To the poster who said Fr. Gruner is incardinated and not suspended: Please prove it. All the documents that I can find say that he is suspended a divinis.
To the poster who asked if canon law is written on paper: Yes, you can easily buy copies of it or find it online at the vatican website. It can also be assumed that Fr. Gruner knew that he was suspended because he appealed the suspension to the Apostolic Signatura, the highest court of the church…and they found no reason to remove his suspension.
To the poster who asked if canon law is written on paper: Yes, you can easily buy copies of it or find it online at the vatican website. It can also be assumed that Fr. Gruner knew that he was suspended because he appealed the suspension to the Apostolic Signatura, the highest court of the church…and they found no reason to remove his suspension.
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Pax_et_Caritas
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Do you know why you can’t find any information in his defense? Because Fr. Gruner does not wast his time responding to all of the lies that are put out against him. If he did, he would have time for nothing else. He busies himself with Priestly work, not with responding to the lies put out by the deceivers and the deceived.
He was incardinated by the Archbishop of Hyderbad, in 1995. This is what the Bishop said when he incardinated him. This let’s us know which of the three categories (discussed in the previous posts) those who are against him belong to.
Archbishop of Hyderbad: “evil forces have conspired to destroy your [Father Gruner’s] work of love” … “bureaucratic forces cannot stifle God’s work.”
If you want to read something official, the following is Fr. Gruners official RECOURSE TO THE SUPREME PONTIFF, Prot. N. 27338/96, which was received by John Paul II personally on November 20, 1996. It provided all the necessary documentation showing that Fr. Gruner was not guilty of the charge, yet neither the Pope nor anyone else has ever responded. Why do you think that is?
fatimacrusader.com/cr65/cr65pg53.asp
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qui_est_ce
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How is he able to write about an unreleased document?
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Sure
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Fr. Gruner’s appeal was heard and rejected by the Apostolic Signatura. FYI, they don’t seem to take kindly to priests who ignore canon law and do as they please…like Archbishop Milingo.
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Pax_et_Caritas
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You obviously did not read the link. Before you publicly calumniate a Priest, don’t you think it would be wise to read the other side of the story? The link I provided was not some rumer from a website (which is what you are used to reading). It wa an official communication between Fr. Gruner and the Pope himself. It tells the entire story.
You and the others who have seen fit to calumniate a Priest of God need to read that link while there is still time to confession and absolution.
Once again, here is the link. I am reading it myself right now:
fatimacrusader.com/cr65/cr65pg53.asp
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LilyM
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A waste of time to prove that he’s a priest in good standing??? Shows how much value he puts on the priesthood and the sacrament of Holy Orders then.
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Pax_et_Caritas
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I provided the link to his official response - the official letter that was hand delivered to the Pope. If he spent his time responding to every lie posted on the internet, he would not have time to perform his priestly work, including running an orphanage.
Would that we had more Priests like the saintly Fr. Gruner.
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qui_est_ce
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Why do you think that is? Because it has no merit perhaps?
I believe in the Magesterium of the ONE HOLYCATHOLIC APOSTALIC CHURCH. The one that Jesus promised to be with till the end of time and keep the gates of Hell from prevailing against her. For this reason I don’t have to examine every piece of evidence thrown out there, reinvent the wheel, so to speak, as the Protestants, and apparently you and your faction do.
You are putting Father Gruner above the Pope and Church Authority. You are in schism with Rome.
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