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Sure
Guest
First off, humor.
Second, I never said Mason’s were good, they’re not, and I’m aware of the relevant canons. There may be secret mason plots…fatima just isn’t one of them.
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Second, I never said Mason’s were good, they’re not, and I’m aware of the relevant canons. There may be secret mason plots…fatima just isn’t one of them.
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Shoshana
Guest
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I fully believe in what you wrote. We just might soil our souls with pointing a finger at a priest and calling him demonic. Jesus, I think in Divine Mercey, requested we never criticize a priest, and if we do, we criticize Himself. Heavy stuff…
That being said…there were enough mesages from La Salette and even Padre Pio predicting chastisement upon the world to tickle our ears. But it is far from tickling…it is awful stuff. Sister Faustina heard from Jesus more than once that the Divine Hand from God is being held back in His wrath. God is angry…but alos loving and wills that all love Him. John Paul 2 was also mentoned in Divine mercy (not by name0 and it was said that it is this pope that will ready the world for the end…What really more do we need/
The worst that is happening is that our churches are so much more empty due to ignorance, apathy, and hatred. It is this apostosy that is the WORST that can happen in the world…and it has infiltrated itself within the clergy…we need to pray for our priests…continually…
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Sure
Guest
Yes, unless I was asked to do something morally wrong (false confession), I would obey the law of the Church until I was exonerated.
Fr. Gruner is suspended. When priests say Mass when they are suspended, they commit a mortal sin. How sad that a priest who is supposed to love Christ commits a mortal sin in the very consecration of Christ’s own Body.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
I believe in the Magesterium of the ONE HOLYCATHOLIC APOSTALIC CHURCH. The one that Jesus promised to be with till the end of time and keep the gates of Hell from prevailing against her. For this reason I don’t have to examine every piece of evidence thrown out there, reinvent the wheel, so to speak, as the Protestants, and apparently you and your faction do.
You are putting Father Gruner above the Pope and Church Authority. You are in schism with Rome.
It is heretical for me to refer to the Authority of Rome? People make mistakes, but when it comes to the hierarchy making a decision, I will defer to them. I make no assumption about the guilt or innocence of Fr. Gruner. I have no problem understanding the difference between Dogmas and private revelaton, which this is. I am NOT obliged to accept this apparition, although I do. I also will believe what the Cardinals in Rome say over what a schismatic factions OPINION of a priest. The Cardinals are under the Pope. Your faction are working outside the Church, plain and simple. A house divided itself cannot stand. The Enemy must be very pleased by the division you are causing.
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ac_claire
Guest
I originally wrote:
But let me use what you just said as an example to re-state my point: we didn’t really need Sister Faustina to tell us to respect priests, did we…? I mean, the Church has said that her revelations do not contradict church teaching, and they don’t add to it either. And since all private revelation is inscrutible and fallible and subject to human error, I think I’ll put my faith only in the church’s teaching on this subject. Either way, we get the same message re: criticism of priests. Does that make sense?
Note that I am not saying that the Divine Mercy devotion or Fatima is wrong or without merit! I’m not qualified to make that judgement. I believe that St. Faustina and the children of Fatima were sincere and maybe they were all truly visionaries. And definitely you, Shoshana, seem to be exceptionally sincere and devout in your faith. But since we don’t know for sure the truth or the accuate interpretation of any private revelation, it is my opinion that it doesn’t hurt to leave them alone entirely.
At it’s worst, too much emphasis placed on private revelations of any kind can lead to the divisiveness and lack of charity that is so evident in the situation between Fr. Gruner and the Vatican…
None of it is necessary.
-a.c.
This is only my opinion—> What I am trying to say is that all these warnings about consecrations and chastisements, and the significance placed on private revelations…It doesn’t match up with the God I know, as revealed through the Church and Sacred Scripture. God isn’t petty; he doesn’t work through confusion and dissonance. This is my judgement using the reason that God gave me.
Definitely, I agree!
But let me use what you just said as an example to re-state my point: we didn’t really need Sister Faustina to tell us to respect priests, did we…? I mean, the Church has said that her revelations do not contradict church teaching, and they don’t add to it either. And since all private revelation is inscrutible and fallible and subject to human error, I think I’ll put my faith only in the church’s teaching on this subject. Either way, we get the same message re: criticism of priests. Does that make sense?
Note that I am not saying that the Divine Mercy devotion or Fatima is wrong or without merit! I’m not qualified to make that judgement. I believe that St. Faustina and the children of Fatima were sincere and maybe they were all truly visionaries. And definitely you, Shoshana, seem to be exceptionally sincere and devout in your faith. But since we don’t know for sure the truth or the accuate interpretation of any private revelation, it is my opinion that it doesn’t hurt to leave them alone entirely.
At it’s worst, too much emphasis placed on private revelations of any kind can lead to the divisiveness and lack of charity that is so evident in the situation between Fr. Gruner and the Vatican…
None of it is necessary.
-a.c.
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MarieO2
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qui_est_ce
Guest
You mean “Red Legs?”I agree…
I am sure old “S” is right pleased with them. How sad.
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LilyM
Guest
And yet this is precisely what WAS done by so many of the visionary Saints - St Padre Pio for just one. He was wrongfully suspended from his duties for a time. He obeyed and held no more Masses, though, until he was exonerated and reinstated. In this he imitated Christ, who was unjustly accused but remained silent, even when on trial for His very life. And St Padre Pio was rewarded for his obedience - did he not bear the stigmata??
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qui_est_ce
Guest
I couldn’t have said it better. But you might want to address this to FatimaisUrgent, I think Shoshana is on the same page as you.I originally wrote:
Definitely, I agree!
But let me use what you just said as an example to re-state my point: we didn’t really need Sister Faustina to tell us to respect priests, did we…? I mean, the Church has said that her revelations do not contradict church teaching, and they don’t add to it either. And since all private revelation is inscrutible and fallible and subject to human error, I think I’ll put my faith only in the church’s teaching on this subject. Either way, we get the same message re: criticism of priests. Does that make sense?
Note that I am not saying that the Divine Mercy devotion or Fatima is wrong or without merit! I’m not qualified to make that judgement. I believe that St. Faustina and the children of Fatima were sincere and maybe they were all truly visionaries. And definitely you, Shoshana, seem to be exceptionally sincere and devout in your faith. But since we don’t know for sure the truth or the accuate interpretation of any private revelation, it is my opinion that it doesn’t hurt to leave them alone entirely.
At it’s worst, too much emphasis placed on private revelations of any kind can lead to the divisiveness and lack of charity that is so evident in the situation between Fr. Gruner and the Vatican…
None of it is necessary.
-a.c.
When I lived in Cincinnati in the '90’s, Our Lady was appearing in Kentucky at a camp ground. I was involved with some wacky Catholics that would faint at Communion, etc. I tried to, but I couldn’t.
Anyway, I went camping with them, to see if she would show up - usually Saturday afternoons at 2:00 (convenient for week-end campers). The visionary had a microphone and speakers all over the camp ground. People were walking around with plastic rosaries around their necks (I wonder if they were glow in the dark). Not just one, but five and more. It seemed superstitious and irreverant to me. I had never seen a rosary worn around the neck before. The visionary went into a trance, and everybody started taking pictures of the sky. All the pictures were the same. Of a door. It only worked if you used a polaroid camera.
Later I learned the aperture of polaroid cameras was in the shape of a door.
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Shoshana
Guest
Fr Gruner lives 30 miles from here. He is a holy and devout priest…but…for the disobedience. How I wish I could meet him one day and candidly ask him why the disobedience. If he did obey, his works would proliferate anyway…and his works are many. Actually, his obedience would comopound his works to the upteenth degree. It saddens me to no end…
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ac_claire
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Disobedience is a huge red flag…Makes me suspect pride where there should be humility. Seems like if the situation were on the up and up and everything was exactly what it seemed to be, then obedience to church authority – for a Catholic – would be a non-issue.Fr Gruner lives 30 miles from here. He is a holy and devout priest…but…for the disobedience. How I wish I could meet him one day and candidly ask him why the disobedience. If he did obey, his works would proliferate anyway…and his works are many. Actually, his obedience would comopound his works to the upteenth degree. It saddens me to no end…
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Shoshana
Guest
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ac_claire
Guest
When I lived in Cincinnati in the '90’s, Our Lady was appearing in Kentucky at a camp ground. I was involved with some wacky Catholics that would faint at Communion, etc. I tried to, but I couldn’t.
Anyway, I went camping with them, to see if she would show up - usually Saturday afternoons at 2:00 (convenient for week-end campers). The visionary had a microphone and speakers all over the camp ground. People were walking around with plastic rosaries around their necks (I wonder if they were glow in the dark). Not just one, but five and more. It seemed superstitious and irreverant to me. I had never seen a rosary worn around the neck before. The visionary went into a trance, and everybody started taking pictures of the sky. All the pictures were the same. Of a door. It only worked if you used a polaroid camera.
Later I learned the aperture of polaroid cameras was in the shape of a door.
wish I could say this is the first time I’ve heard a story like this, but sadly it’s all too frequent. My cousins used to belong to a community where people spoke in tongues during consecration, were “slain in the spirit” in communion line, etc. They had visions all over the place, prophetic dreams, messages from Jesus…
The lasting effect on a lot of the kids who were involved in this community is that their faith isn’t as strong as it could be. They grew up surrounded by so much drama and mystical experience, that when they left the community and confronted normal, mundane day-to-day life, their faith felt “lacking”. I guess you get hooked on a feeling. Many of them ended up drifting away from the church entirely. It is very sad!
Anyway, I went camping with them, to see if she would show up - usually Saturday afternoons at 2:00 (convenient for week-end campers). The visionary had a microphone and speakers all over the camp ground. People were walking around with plastic rosaries around their necks (I wonder if they were glow in the dark). Not just one, but five and more. It seemed superstitious and irreverant to me. I had never seen a rosary worn around the neck before. The visionary went into a trance, and everybody started taking pictures of the sky. All the pictures were the same. Of a door. It only worked if you used a polaroid camera.
Later I learned the aperture of polaroid cameras was in the shape of a door.
wish I could say this is the first time I’ve heard a story like this, but sadly it’s all too frequent. My cousins used to belong to a community where people spoke in tongues during consecration, were “slain in the spirit” in communion line, etc. They had visions all over the place, prophetic dreams, messages from Jesus…
The lasting effect on a lot of the kids who were involved in this community is that their faith isn’t as strong as it could be. They grew up surrounded by so much drama and mystical experience, that when they left the community and confronted normal, mundane day-to-day life, their faith felt “lacking”. I guess you get hooked on a feeling. Many of them ended up drifting away from the church entirely. It is very sad!
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ac_claire
Guest
sorry, somehow I didn’t get quotes around the post I was applying to above. [newbie defense!]
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Shoshana
Guest
I couldn’t have said it better. But you might want to address this to FatimaisUrgent, I think Shoshana is on the same page as you.
When I lived in Cincinnati in the '90’s, Our Lady was appearing in Kentucky at a camp ground. I was involved with some wacky Catholics that would faint at Communion, etc. I tried to, but I couldn’t.
Anyway, I went camping with them, to see if she would show up - usually Saturday afternoons at 2:00 (convenient for week-end campers). The visionary had a microphone and speakers all over the camp ground. People were walking around with plastic rosaries around their necks (I wonder if they were glow in the dark). Not just one, but five and more. It seemed superstitious and irreverant to me. I had never seen a rosary worn around the neck before. The visionary went into a trance, and everybody started taking pictures of the sky. All the pictures were the same. Of a door. It only worked if you used a polaroid camera.
Later I learned the aperture of polaroid cameras was in the shape of a door.
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FATIMAisUrgent
Guest
Ok, I guess that was a bad example. In the case of an individual like you or me in a situation like I described, I can see how it may be a SPIRITUAL ADVANTAGE to embrace the suffering of calumny and persecution (though I disagree that absolute obedience is MORALLY REQUIRED). But in the case of Fr. Gruner, he has too many obligations and souls to take care of with his work to simply throw everything to the side and wait to be exonerated. By the way, haven’t you ever heard that “the salvation of souls his the highest law” (I believe it says that in the 1983 CCL). Is the Catholic Faith really built upon an oppressive legal system like you suggest? I can’t agree with that.
Also, you do realize that just because someone claims that Fr. Gruner is suspended, doesn’t mean he is actually suspended. If that were true, then any cardinal, or bishop, could suspend any priest he wanted to for no reason at all, and that would seem pretty ridiculous to me. Would they be suspended in God’s eye’s? If not, then shouldn’t they “obey God rather than men”? Again, was St. Athanasius excommunicated in God’s eyes? No, he chose to obey God rather than men.
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FATIMAisUrgent
Guest
Sorry if my accuastion of “implicit heresy” was out of line. All I was trying to say was that the Cardinal secretary of state and the congregation of the clergy are not the “magisterium of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church” that Our Lord’s promise applies. They are indeed under the pope and unfortunately they have been allowed to abuse their power on many occasions. Also, would you mind telling me where Church law says that a private association of clergy or laity needs permission to exist? I’m not aware of any Church law that says that. If I am causing division then, oh well, what can I do? I’m just trying to defend the good name of a slandared priest and promote Our Lady’s peace plan from Heaven. And I say PROMOTE, because I never once said that anyone here was obliged to believe in Fatima.
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MarieO2
Guest
Yep! That would be the culprit.You mean “Red Legs?”
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Jenny_Z
Guest
This is an important point, and one worth repeating.
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Sure
Guest
If the “someone” claiming that he is suspended is the Apostolic Signatura, then I tend to listen…it’s not just some guy on the internet (which incidently is the only source defending him).
I’m sorry you have trouble agreeing with the Catholic Church’s system of Canon Law. I will pray for you.
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