Fr. Pavone resigns from Trump campaign roles

[F_Marturana]

An example is Monsignor Reilly of God’s precious infants.

Most people don’t know of him, but he is the head of a pro-life group of prayers and side walk counselors.

To become a sidewalk counselor, they go through training on how to encourage women to choose life.

I believe that they have chapters in Brazil as well. Abortion is illegal there, but their rates approach the US rates.

The job is the same, encourage women to choose life.

 

[F_Marturana]

I think of that poor child.

Naked on an altar to make a political point.

He/she deserved to be treated with dignity. A casket, a burial shroud, a mass.

The baby deserved better.

 

[Victoria33]

I wish all Catholics were so zealous in being pro-life. Errors in judgement are another thing and most of us have made them. If we were, perhaps this nation would have no more abortion.

 

[CaptFun]

I pray that those differences continue. But there are churches burning (any arrests?), statues of saints being vandalized, and “technical Catholics” who oppose true Church teaching being promoted while Catholics who are not down with the “social justice” of abortion get no traction in either political party.

Yes, the Calles government of the 1920’s just went to war against the Church all at once.
And you’re right, it’s not that bad here (yet anyway). The U.S. clergy HAS closed down Churches but in a cooperative manner with the government … as a health concession. Under Calles in Mexico he did not allow televised masses of course (TV not invented yet) and he didn’t even allow the ridiculous 10 person indoor maximum attendance we ARE seeing today in some places.

My reference was one of preparation. AND I hope it is never this bad in the U.S.

Per “the Church’s” response currently … one hopes they are preparing to re-open as soon as they can … rather than embracing a clear track to sell off parishes and make dubious business deals while the faithful are not around as much to complain or offer counter-counsel to the worst of it.

Since Fr. Pavone himself resigned from the TRUMP campaign … I’ll consider that controversy closed (or practically so). There should be a “Priests for Life” still. Although that name does rather imply that there are priests that are NOT for life, politically.

It’s not as if the major party that is officially and passionately NOT pro-life … is making any sort of bid to equally court pro-life Catholic or (other) Christian votes. So Pavone’s group IS going to
seem like a GOP adjunct as long as the GOP platform and visible candidates support PFL’s goals and the Democrats officially oppose it.

 

[FrankFletcher]

I wish all Catholics were so zealous in being pro-life. Errors in judgement are another thing and most of us have made them. If we were, perhaps this nation would have no more abortion.

Did he apologize for this “error in judgement”?

 

[Leslie]

I am the director of communications for Priests for Life. I have worked for and alongside Father Frank Pavone for almost 11 years. His devotion and commitment to the pro-life cause is absolute. Working to end abortion is literally all he does.
I thank Catholic Answers for covering in the past, in a positive way, some of Father Frank’s many, many activities for the unborn. The Catholic News Agency story you posted about Father Frank being forced to resign from Trump campaign advisory boards was accurate and fair, but my question to most of the Catholic media is, why is Father Frank only newsworthy when he’s being upbraided by the Catholic hierarchy?
Why is there no coverage of the daily live streamed Masses he has been celebrating since the pandemic paralyzed the U.S.?
Where are the mentions of the prayer campaigns he begins, or the election teachings he gives daily on Facebook? Who spends times reading his homilies or listening to his podcasts? Where was the coverage of the books he has written?
We all know about the baby on the table in 2016 and the outrage continues - not about the way he was murdered, but about Father Frank daring to show Americans what we talk about when we talk about choice.
In these strange times, when statues of Jesus and Mary are being beheaded and burned, Catholics should think long and hard about what will become of our faith if a pro-abortion, anti-religious freedom candidate wins the White House and the party of abortion extremism takes back the Senate and holds on to the House. We know what will happen. Taxpayer funded abortion through all nine months. No conscience rights for health-care workers who refuse to take part in murder. Catholic hospitals forced to perform abortion and transgender surgery. Euthanasia to rid the nation of the burden of the frail and the elderly. Free contraception and sterilization for all, even while the US fertility drops precipitously.
Father Frank did not “work” for Trump. He advised the campaign on ways to reach Catholic and pro-life voters. When told to resign, he did. But if you think he will stop working for the unborn, you don’t know Father Frank.

 

[Victoria33]

Priests can certainly protest abortion. Many do. They should not be endorsing political candidates.

Not sure that is contrary to the rules and regulations to be followed though.

The baby deserved better.

Like the right to life.

The point is that he was in violation of canon law.
Trader’s post above yours gives excellent examples of clergy standing up for Catholic values without violating canon law.

If a Priest is a Pastor at a parish and endorses a candidate, that could be a violation of the separation of Church and State but whether that is a violation of Canon law is an open question to me. It’s not clear of what you are calling a violation of Canon law.

Can. 287 §1. Most especially, clerics are always to foster the peace and harmony based on justice which are to be observed among people.

§2. They are not to have an active part in political parties and in governing labor unions unless, in the judgment of competent ecclesiastical authority, the protection of the rights of the Church or the promotion of the common good requires it.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_PY.HTM

 

[Victoria33]

Indeed, I wonder about criticizing the good Father.

Yes, I knew he has his Rosary from Lourdes or did. I should keep it up with it more.

 

[puer.dei]

It’s not clear of what you are calling a violation of Canon law.

Ask the author of the article

 

[puer.dei]

F_Marturana:

The baby deserved better.

Like the right to life.

Like a respectful burial, rather than being made a spectacle of.

 

[CaptFun]

Could you cite the article of Canon law Fr. Pavone (supposedly) broke?

Read Traders post as you suggested. The Bishop even used a Mass homily and artful language to lead his flock to the proper conclusion.

Though it wasn’t a parish mass but a special one, it would seem to me that such is more directly under canon law prescriptions than what Fr. Pavone was doing while NOT at the altar.

He is an American citizen too … and Catholics ranking less on the hierarchy scale are even supposed to give a public good example to their neighbors even after that “go, the mass is ended” sounds.

Can politicians not ask for spiritual guidance and support … mean it, and be publicly taking that good counsel … and not get a lukewarm "no I can’t (fight that evil with you) anymore … I’ve been silenced by my Bishop’s* liberal interpretation of Canon X … but keep up th’ good fight (JUST don’t say I said so)! ?

• that Bishop might be voting differently than us and may have been mad at me for having not worn rainbow vestments when I was so visibly volunteering with you.

I’m not inclined to nitpick Fr. Pavone’s support of leaders who are battling great social evils in alliance with the Church. We’ve had Popes who recruited armed troops in the past … citing evils not exceeding that of the abortion holocaust that Fr. Pavone’s organization has fought for the past 30 years or so.

 

[Victoria33]

He should have never worked for Trump. Disgraceful.

Well, what would you have us do? Maybe talk from experience? I see nothing wrong with voting pro-life at all. Vote for someone like Obama? Ted Kennedy? Biden? I don’t see them respecting the right to life or even giving it lip service. I see some pretty brutal laws.

---

Aside from the above, a general comment:

By the way, I don’t think the good Father Pavone was ever disciplined for this with the fetus. I may be wrong.

Somewhere I have a social gospel, it has the Stations of the Cross, one of the times Jesus falls, it shows a down-and-out kind of person. Is this some spectacle now? Are we not suppose to see Jesus in everyone?

Abortion, the right to life is an urgent situation. It may even be justification for all I know.

Canon law effectively requires priests to be apolitical (at least publicly - they can think and vote according to their conscience) for a reason and it’s not up to me, fr Pavone or any other priest for that matter to decide that the rules don’t suit him and so ignore them.

Like so many other things, it is nuanced.

What is the basis for priests being told to stay out of politics?

So, not necessarily and yes, I would consider abortion a very urgent situation, a sort of emergency.

 

[CaptFun]

Thank you for responding Leslie and welcome to CAF forums.

On September 10, 2001 I remember seeing this story … that Fr. Pavone
was being asked to leave Priests for Life by the NY Bishop. My heart sunk.
It was part of a strange news day that also recounted chimeras (part human, part animal(s) being created) and other things that made me wonder if mankind was going too far.

FATHER PAVONE ASKED TO LEAVE PRIESTS FOR LIFE - LifeSite

I awoke at 6 am to watch the “911” terror. So glad that Fr. Pavone got back to spearheading a tough pushback against the most monstrous sin of our time and a blight on the record of America.

Another poster here felt sorry for the poor baby exposed at the altar.
So do I but more for the reason that he/she should never been cut to pieces legally in my country.

That poster also was of the opinion that “the baby deserved better”. I agreed with that sentiment too.

As per Fr. Pavone’s decision to “expose” the child at the altar in 2016 …
it didn’t hurt the child. Something ELSE did. Reading further in that old article I saw where Fr. Pavone was given the body with the exact aim to bless and bury it. In the meantime it called to mind a vision not easy to forget … if indeed one that disturbs many.

Hopefully that child has been blessed with a Christian burial by now.

Meanwhile, its murdered body probably did more good as a witness to God and His law, with being piteously exposed (like Jesus’ was) as a sign against evil.

That poster seemed to wish that someone would have been kinder to the corpse. Perhaps hiding it away in a private, tasteful burial hidden from view of the public. Now and then the Catholic Church OKs the display of saints who have been found to be incorrupt (no decay after burial). This greatly honors that saint. So … was this baby not honored by being given a place close to Jesus for a moment on an altar that represents HIS horrifying death?

While I might have been queasy myself at the thought of it … because I am a way too comfortable Catholic much of the time … I am glad of Fr. Frank’s bold
example to the flock, when many figure that “abortion is bad … but ok … other sins are worse … and our clergy doesn’t speak of it much”.

Who knows, if a few thousand voters changed their votes in 2016 because of it … we may have gotten a more true to Catholic teaching President than we would have without the feather ruffling bold witness Father gave.

 

[puer.dei]

I see your posting history:

I’m flattered that I’m so important to you that you want to read all my posts. However, I don’t answer to you for what & where I post. And I certainly don’t need to prove my pro-life credentials to you. Personally, I consider acting on my beliefs in real life to be more important than talking about them on the internet.

Interesting, that you chose not to include any context for the posts you quoted. And that you added one from someone else entirely, seeming to imply it was mine.

None of which convinces me that poor little child’s body didn’t deserve better treatment

 

[F_Marturana]

The baby deserved better.

I’ll repeat it.

We don’t treat the dead that way.

Let’s think, the same reason it’s wrong to display the corpse of a baby on an altar that way is the same reason why abortion is wrong.

The corpses of the dead are not props.

The corporal works of mercy include burying the dead. Not use them to make a political point.

 

[Victoria33]

The corporal works of mercy include burying the dead. Not use them to make a political point.

The Church did not discipline him in any way from what I understand. I have seen no information that the baby was not given a proper burial. If such an article states this, maybe someone can post it.

It’s a baby, not a prop, not a political point. It’s human life.

Father Pavone has shown himself to be a committed pro-lifer and has done much for the movement.

I am endlessly grateful to him for how much he has done for the Pro-life movement which we all can see. For speaking up for the sanctity of life.

 

[Victoria33]

Like a respectful burial, rather than being made a spectacle of.

I have looked at all kinds of articles, I see no proof that the baby was not given a respectful burial. If anyone has evidence that a member of the clergy did not give the baby a respectful burial, I would please request that evidence, news article be post… perhaps with the quote.

If this can not be done, we should see this as not proven in any way.

Here is an article from the National Catholic Reporter but I see no statements in it and that the baby was not given even a burial, let alone “respectful” burial.

Fr. Frank Pavone uses aborted fetus in message for Election Day | National Catholic Reporter

The priest acknowledged at the top of the 44-minute video, which as of Tuesday morning has been viewed more than 356,000 times, that “I’m doing something rather extraordinary.” The male child was aborted during the second trimester, Pavone said, and was “entrusted to us” by a pathologist for burial.

So, I’d hope that if anyone here can provide evidence that the child was not given a respectful burial to post such information.

 

[Victoria33]

This is on-topic, I would like to say. It shows the urgency of the situation via stated in Canon Law.

Priest and four others arrested saving unborn inside abortion center - LifeSite

Priest and four others arrested saving unborn inside abortion center​

A Red Rose Rescue resulted in arrests for defiant trespassing after police quickly arrived at the facility.

Mon Oct 1, 2018

There have been other news stories on this, I think I originally saw this story in the secular press.

The fact that some people do see this as an urgent situation, likely means that the Canon Law does recognize the urgency in saving the lives of the unborn. That Fr. Pavon is clear in this regard, it’s just that it is understandable, that a lot of us do not care to take it that far but clearly, many see the urgency.

Yes, and the Reporter should be seen for what it is as well, possibly not fair to conservatives in reporting on Catholic matters. Let’s get that out of the way.

 

[puer.dei]

So, I’d hope that if anyone here can provide evidence that the child was not given a respectful burial to post such information.

Again, you’re taking me out of context. Full quote:
“Like a respectful burial, rather than being made a spectacle of.”

So, all you need proof of is the spectacle? A google search for “Father Pavone aborted fetus” results in:
About 97,000 results (0.40 seconds)

I’m really don’t understand how anyone can be so offended by an opinion that a poor murdered baby shouldn’t be used like that. But you’re certainly entitled to your opinion – as I’m entitled to mine.

 

[pnewton]

that Bishop might be voting differently than us and may have been mad at me for having not worn rainbow vestments when I was so visibly volunteering with you.

Jumped the shark with that one, you did.

That poster seemed to wish that someone would have been kinder to the corpse.

Right, as that would have been a corporal work of mercy.

Could you cite the article of Canon law Fr. Pavone (supposedly) broke?

I did this work for you. It took maybe two minutes. that canon was 287 under the code for clerics.

§2. They are not to have an active part in political parties and in governing labor unions unless, in the judgment of competent ecclesiastical authority, the protection of the rights of the Church or the promotion of the common good requires it.

I would also note that labels may or may not be accurate. For example, Priests for Life are anti-abortion, not pro-life, at least as the Church sees it. The position of the Catholic Church on the value of life and the term “pro-life” extends beyond birth, encompassing the value of life at all stages, even as Jesus valued all he met, not just the unborn. A consistent life ethic has as its foundation the right to be born and not killed out of convenience, but that is not the sum total of the Church’s pro-life teaching. It is only the first and most critical.

My concern is that the Church’s actual teaching on the value of life is diminished when we take political sides, aligning with parties, as platforms replace doctrine, at least in perception. We become open to the accusation of be pro-birth, not pro-life, and dismissed for the hypocrisy that is seen, whether real or not. Abortion will never be stopped by force of law unless the majority of Americans want it. I fear some actions done with the best of intentions play to the converted, and work against changing the culture of death.