Fr. Robert Barron on Stephen Hawking

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. . . And these physicists war with each other. . .
It is all about honour, funding, building academic fiefdoms, and publishing or perishing, with the economic and political system in the background ready to pounce on any discovery that will meet its end.
Let the public pay for their fantasies about what constitutes reality, and the farther away that reality is to what is truly going on the better, lest people address the real problems facing this world and decide to do something about them.
Cynical? Yep!
 
Suppose God actually created a proto-world which he destroyed to make the big bang and our world. Or suppose God made some multiverse whatjamacallit and our universe popped out of that. Or suppose even that we’ve misconstrued redshift and the CMB big-time, and actually there was no big bang, God did it some other way.

Did God create us to defend our certainties? Is the purpose of religion to contentedly graze on received dogmas? I guess it could be, but that would be more about protecting tradition than reaching for the truth. A tidy, if dull, world.

And a somewhat remote world, as far as we know 13.798 (±0.037) billion years away from Christ.

Still, if that’s what Catholicism is all about, who am I to disagree. 😃
God certainly left us a Divine Revelation. That is something objectively true. And that he did so means that Truth was high on his priority list since it is the Truth that sets us free. It follows necessarily that he left us a means to know the Truth without error and that is what the Church is all about. One part of that Truth is his revelation that he created the universe in time out of nothing. Exactly how he did this we do not know, but I doubt very seriously that it involved multiverses or cyclical universes or bubble universes. But I suppose there is no harm in these " fantisies " as long as we give God credit and as long as we believe that Adam and Eve were real people who sinned and transmitted their sin on to the rest of humanity and that God creates each individual soul by a special creative act.

I think most non-Catholic Christians and most Jewish people would agree. Personally, I think your perspective on creation must be rather unique among the non-Catholic Christian population - or perhaps it is unique to your local in Spain. At least it is new to me.

As far as Dogmas are concerned very little of Catholic teaching is in the form of Dogmas. These become necessary only when the Truths of Tradition become severely threatened by heretical teachings.

Linus2nd

Linus2nd
 
But that’s not the same. Previously you were commenting on Hawking apparently saying science “has convinced him there is no God”. Assuming he said something like that, it’s a personal conviction, not intended as an hypothesis.
I understand that. but what I proposed WAS a hypothesis, namely on how the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics could be satisfied in a cyclical universe model. St. Michael would dispose of it.

Is it equally as ‘science’ as any other premise that could not be empirically verified?
 
Brendan, Just jumping in here, are you saying that it can never be proven empirically or mathematically that there are multiple universes?
 
But that’s not the same. Previously you were commenting on Hawking apparently saying science “has convinced him there is no God”. Assuming he said something like that, it’s a personal conviction, not intended as an hypothesis. Perhaps one day Hawking will turn it into an hypothesis and publish it for testing, but until then surely it’s on a par with someone saying that evil in the world has convinced her there is no God, or that an act of kindness convinced him there is a God.
How could there be any way to test the hypothesis there is no God? :confused:
 
He says things for effect. Physics is mathematics applied to reality. It is boring. If you want to sell books about physics, you have to spice it up.
 
Wow! Simply incredible.
Here is a physicist showing that he has absolutely no idea what evolution is about.
It is going nowhere. It does not move forward. All species will be supplanted by others which are neither superior or inferior. They simply exist and reproduce in their own particular environment. There is no force leading to greater biological complexity. It just happened presumably.
There is no consistency in his scientific understanding. Hawking is a troll.
 
Brendan, Just jumping in here, are you saying that it can never be proven empirically or mathematically that there are multiple universes?
Not using the scientific method.

We could, for example, get Divine Revelation on the subject
 
Physics is mathematics applied to reality. It is boring.
The interplay of physics and math is incredibly interesting. Take for example, Kepler’s three laws of planetary motion. Kepler was able to derive these three laws from the data which was available at the time. But given that the orbit of a planet is an ellipse, you can derive mathematically the second and third laws mathematically by calculus!
uu.edu/dept/math/seniorpapers/09-10/davisemily.pdf
 
The interplay of physics and math is incredibly interesting. . . .
Lol. Yeah, but it does not sell. Once most people get through high school and undergrad, they are glad to be done with it. Ideas, that is something different. Most people who go into physics think it’s going to be steady contemplation of the universe. It ain’t. But, I actually do share your interest in math. Part of heaven would be whizzing through those problems that now cause mental gridlock.
 
Lol. Yeah, but it does not sell.
A lot of people are not buying, but others have the bug and they thirst for a deeper understanding of the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics as applied to physical real world problems.
 
A lot of people are not buying, but others have the bug and they thirst for a deeper understanding of the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics as applied to physical real world problems.
. . . and they do math problems? Seriously? When did you last buy any sort of mathematics/calculus/algebra/stats text book when you did not have to as part of your formal education. You are clearly interested in ideas or you would not be here. Take a statistics course for the fun of it. Let us know how it goes. We used to do that stuff in our heads with slide rules. The kids today have fancy calculators that even do graphing because it is that exciting.
 
. When did you last buy any sort of mathematics/calculus/algebra/stats text book when you did not have to as part of your formal education.
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I guess he has not been consistent in his religious beliefs? For example, in 1988, in his book A Brief History of Time, he said, “If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason – for then we should know the mind of God.”
I think Hawking and some other physicists get this from Einstein. By God I think they mean natura naturans, self-causing nature, so knowing the mind of god = knowing why nature exists and is as it is and is all that there is. So there’s no connection with a theistic personal god, this is a very different notion, naturalism + atheism or maybe a dab of pantheism.

I can get what they mean, but Einstein said he got it from Spinoza, and I don’t have enough brain cells to wrap round that philosophy.
 
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