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guanophore
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It will take nothing less than the actions of the Holy Spirit to bring the Church into the unity that Jesus desires.
Fr.Z: "We must deny to Protestantism any right to use the Bible..."
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HopkinsReb
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This is my point.
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Mike_from_NJ
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Jews don’t see Christianity as an extension of Judaism. Also the initial point the father made was that Protestants were allowed to use the Bible, but not allowed to say what it means. By the same reasoning Christians should be allowed to use the Old Testament but not say what it means. Jews and Christians have several significantly different interpretations of parts of the Old Testament.
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MagdalenaRita
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Oh ok. It sometimes takes me a while. Thanks.
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fhansen
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It should be firmly maintained that Scripture alone can never serve as authoritative in determining Christian truths or serving as the rule of faith.
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dochawk
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No, not the same reasoning at all.
In the case of the Bible, it is the Protestant reasoning (lack of church authority) that leads to the conclusion of “no Bible”, while in the Catholic case, there is no rejection of Judaism. A case could conceivably be made, but the reasoning is quite different.
In the case of the Bible, it is the Protestant reasoning (lack of church authority) that leads to the conclusion of “no Bible”, while in the Catholic case, there is no rejection of Judaism. A case could conceivably be made, but the reasoning is quite different.
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Don_Ruggero
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As Pope Benedict said, the concept of an “ecumenism of return” is repudiated by the Catholic Church. The ultimate goal of the ecumenical movement is restoration amongst followers of the Lord Jesus who are baptised into Christ but are not in canonical communion with each other.
The Ordinariates erected for those of Anglican heritage who wish to be in full communion with the Roman See – there are three of them – is indeed a good exmple. We have welcomed warmly into the bosom of the Church the patrimony of Anglicanism, which we gladly acknowledge enriches the Catholic Church.
To have the prayers of Thomas Cranmer as part of the Catholic celebration of Eucharist is a very great statement of Rome’s thought regarding the ecumenical movement – indeed an indication of what the ecumenical movement for the next generation will look like – as is our joint commemoration of the Reformation with the Lutherans, so recently concluded.
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njlisa
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When I was a benighted 
Protestant, I read the Bible, which led me to Holy Mother Church. Odd the way that works. 
Protestant, I read the Bible, which led me to Holy Mother Church. Odd the way that works. 
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fhansen
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I can relate. I left the Church, became Protestant for a while after reading Scripture extensively, but then the more I read, along with church history, early fathers, concilliar degrees and documents, the catechism etc, I was led inexorably back to the RCC, much to my own surprise.When I was a benighted
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ZMystiCat
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He seems to be building, at least in part, off the authority of the Church, and the Church does have authority to declare what is canon, interpret the Scripture, and do both infallibly. Jews, like Protestants, don’t have that authority.
Of course, admiration and submission are two different things entirely. As far as Catholics are concerned, the big problem for Protestants is lack of submission, not admiration.
Same. While various extra-Scriptural matters did contribute to my conversion to Catholicism, the discovery of how Catholic the Bible is really got the process started. Initially, I was just shocked how much closer Catholics were on marriage than any Protestant groups that I was aware of. After that, I started thinking, “Hey, if they’re right on marriage, maybe Catholics do have valid points on X, Y, Z.”When I was a benighted
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njlisa
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I discovered how Catholic the Bible is. Then I discovered how biblical the Mass is.
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TULIPed
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#babysteps
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jericho777
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And the Jews can claim and have exercised the same authority and they were around way before there was a catholic church. Without an OT the NT has no basis or context.jericho777:
He seems to be building, at least in part, off the authority of the Church, and the Church does have authority to declare what is canon, interpret the Scripture, and do both infallibly. Jews, like Protestants, don’t have that authority.
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Hodos
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The issue you are having is that you are conflating ecclesiastical authority with unity under Christ, and the OP is a perfect example demonstrating that the speaker is less concerned with the proclamation of Christ’s gospel than he is with sectarian fighting.
Mark 9:38-41 NASB
[38] John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.” [39] But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. [40] For he who is not against us is for us. [41] For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because y of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. …
Mark 9:38-41 NASB
[38] John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.” [39] But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. [40] For he who is not against us is for us. [41] For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because y of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. …
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guanophore
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Actually, there is no separation from the two. Those who are in unity with Christ are in unity with the authority He appointed.
Unity naturally flows from adherence to the Truth. The Truth is preserved infallibly in the Church by the Holy 'Spirit, so that all those who are in unity with the Truth are in unity with one another. When individuals depart from the Truth, unity is fractured, and sometimes broken.
I agree that we must not hinder those of divergent communities that are following Christ, to the best of their ability. All such work of the Holy Spirit is, itself, a call to unity.
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Hodos
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So far as the authority he has appointed is obedient to Christ and his gospel, yes. However, not when that authority is disobedient to him and departs from his gospel. Acts 4 and Galatians 2 clearly demonstrates this.
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guanophore
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I think you may be suffering from a misunderstanding about Apostolic authority. Jesus had already replaced the Jewish leadership with the Apostles (Acts 2), to whom the “seat of Moses” was transferred.
As far as Gal. 2, Paul is not questioning or defying Peter’s apostolic authority, but confronting him about his behavior. Peter was acting against his own teachings! The perfection is in the teaching, but not the individual. People are fallible.
Of course every person or group of people who split from whatever authority exists and become their own authority believes that they are listening to the Holy Spirit more clearly than the others. Believing one is led by the Holy Spirit and others are not is insufficient criteria for rebellion against authority.
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Hodos
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No, I am not suffering from a misunderstanding of apostolic authority. Both the legal authority of the day and the apostolic authority are subject to the same God. And both were called to account to be faithful to God’s word. When earthly authority or ecclesiastical authority is not in step with Christ, we are told exactly who we owe our obedience to, and that is Christ, not fallible man.
This is the oft repeated argumentation, we can’t know what God has revealed. I reject this assertion. God spoke to be understood. And again, the Church has authority by virtue of being faithful to God’s word. Turn again back to Galatians 1:8-9.
Wherever the Church is faithful to His word, I am glad to bend the knee in worship and obedience.
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guanophore
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How can you be sure?
Yes, of course, but Jesus spent every day for three years training the Apostles and teaching them about the Kingdom, not to mention the 40 days before His ascension. They had an inside track to the will of God that the Jewish authorities did not, don’t you think?
I agree with you. The challenge then becomes, how does one decide who is “in step” with Christ, and who is “out”?
Yes, I agree on this point also. But how we understand God is informed by our experiences and education (or lack of it). Apollos was faithful to God, to the degree that he was able, but he still did not have all the information. This is not an uncommon condition for human beings.
What it boils down to often, sad to say, is people’s perception of what they understand His word is saying.
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