Framented Christianity

[MaryandJoseph]

I get soooo frustrated with so many different “types” of Christian faiths.

ONE GOD means He gave us ONE message of salvation

ONE GOD means He has only ONE truth

On my study and journey to the Christain faith (out of the darkness of Atheism), I was confused about which church to worship my new found belief. So many different types of Christain churches with so many differing beliefs.

church “A”…Water baptism not needed for salvation

church “B”…Water baptism needed to wash away original sins

church “C”…No such thing as Original sins

church “D”…Jesus took ALL our sins to the Cross so our salvation is “assured”

I studied and studied all the differing Protestant faiths, and Yes, they have a deep and wonderful love of God and truly wish to follow Him, but after much study on the different denominations, I almost gave up hope that there truly was a God at all. After all, there is only ONE truth, not many!

If not for the Grace of God in leading me to the Catholic Church, I may well have fallen back to my old atheist views (which would have meant Death to my soul)

If Protestants believe the Catholic Church was “derailed” at some point, then why is there not only One protestant church?, Why are there Church of Christ and Church of God and Baptist and Methodist and and and…you get the idea.

Did Jesus teach many different Truths and does God teach that, as an example, that Baptism is right for this group but wrong for the other?

Am I missing something here?

Jesus’ prayer was that all would be One as He and the Father are One. Maybe I just don’t understand the definition of ONE:shrug:

 

[tbtcom1213]

It is very frustrating to have many people divided and stubborn over who is right and wrong. Jesus did in fact teach ONE message of salvation and that he gave it to ALL peoples to have a chance at eternity with God. Rest assured when Jesus conversed with Saint Peter in Saint Matthew’s Gospel he said the gates of hail will not prevail against his Church. What a wonderful Saviour. The bride of Christ has stood the test of time from it’s commencement and until now she keeps going. We as the mystical body of Christ must be fervent in prayer and worship that we may all be one and follow what Jesus says in Scripture and through his holy priests today Amen

 

[JRKH]

Welcome Home MaryandJoseph.

Although I did not come from an Athiest background, I too had to go through this sort of discovery process before returning to The Catholic Church.

It is a question that all those who seek after the Truth must ask.

Peace
James

 

[wmscott]

I get soooo frustrated with so many different “types” of Christian faiths.

ONE GOD means He gave us ONE message of salvation

ONE GOD means He has only ONE truth

On my study and journey to the Christain faith (out of the darkness of Atheism), I was confused about which church to worship my new found belief. So many different types of Christain churches with so many differing beliefs.

church “A”…Water baptism not needed for salvation

church “B”…Water baptism needed to wash away original sins

church “C”…No such thing as Original sins

church “D”…Jesus took ALL our sins to the Cross so our salvation is “assured”

I studied and studied all the differing Protestant faiths, and Yes, they have a deep and wonderful love of God and truly wish to follow Him, but after much study on the different denominations, I almost gave up hope that there truly was a God at all. After all, there is only ONE truth, not many!

If not for the Grace of God in leading me to the Catholic Church, I may well have fallen back to my old atheist views (which would have meant Death to my soul)

If Protestants believe the Catholic Church was “derailed” at some point, then why is there not only One protestant church?, Why are there Church of Christ and Church of God and Baptist and Methodist and and and…you get the idea.

Did Jesus teach many different Truths and does God teach that, as an example, that Baptism is right for this group but wrong for the other?

Am I missing something here?

Jesus’ prayer was that all would be One as He and the Father are One. Maybe I just don’t understand the definition of ONE:shrug:

Welcome MaryandJoseph and praise the Lord that you were guided back into his light and the beautiful Catholic faith. Although my circumstances are very different than yours, I grew up Southern Baptist, and after leaving home at 17 to join the Navy, I spent many years in a spiritual wasteland. It took the love of a good catholic lady (my wife) to return me back to God.

What I have to remember is that these Protestants that frustrate you and I are our brothers and sisters in Christ. They are Christians who do have the necessary truths for salvation, but they are by their nature (Protestant) disobedient children of the One, Hole, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Remember we all are sinners, and as sinners we all need to pray for each other and treat each other with Christian charity. Peace.

 

[MaryandJoseph]

I don’t in anyway condem our seperated brothers and sisters in Christ, I admire their love and zeal for our Lord. I am just so confused as to how so many different Protestant faiths can all profess a belief in God yet have different doctrines (or a lack thereof).

Indeed, sinners we all are, and we should pray one for another always, its just that my head spins and confusions set in when confronted with a Gospel “truth” that contradicts my Catholic faith, and to some extent, other protestant faiths I have researched.

Rest assured though, that my journey home to the Catholic Church is Holy Spirit led and that as Jesus promised, “The gates of hell shall NOT prevail”. but still, dealing with all the contradictory doctrines (some great and others very small) leaves me scratching my head.

 

[KathleenGee]

Welcome, MaryandJoseph,

This is the week of prayer for Christian unity…

Kathleen

 

[CMatt25]

I get soooo frustrated with so many different “types” of Christian faiths.

ONE GOD means He gave us ONE message of salvation

ONE GOD means He has only ONE truth

On my study and journey to the Christain faith (out of the darkness of Atheism), I was confused about which church to worship my new found belief. So many different types of Christain churches with so many differing beliefs.

church “A”…Water baptism not needed for salvation

church “B”…Water baptism needed to wash away original sins

church “C”…No such thing as Original sins

church “D”…Jesus took ALL our sins to the Cross so our salvation is “assured”

I studied and studied all the differing Protestant faiths, and Yes, they have a deep and wonderful love of God and truly wish to follow Him, but after much study on the different denominations, I almost gave up hope that there truly was a God at all. After all, there is only ONE truth, not many!

If not for the Grace of God in leading me to the Catholic Church, I may well have fallen back to my old atheist views (which would have meant Death to my soul)

If Protestants believe the Catholic Church was “derailed” at some point, then why is there not only One protestant church?, Why are there Church of Christ and Church of God and Baptist and Methodist and and and…you get the idea.

Did Jesus teach many different Truths and does God teach that, as an example, that Baptism is right for this group but wrong for the other?

Am I missing something here?

Jesus’ prayer was that all would be One as He and the Father are One. Maybe I just don’t understand the definition of ONE:shrug:

I am very frustrated too. But there have been disputes since the beginning. The Apostles disputed who among them was the greatest. Paul corrected Peter. There was friction between the various sees. Eventually east and west excommunicated each other. Then the Reformation came later.

But yes you probably are missing something else here. How did you arrive at the point of believing Christ made Peter the first Pope? I trust you did not simply take another person’s word for it and made certain what you saw in Scripture testifies to what you were told. So then you probably interpreted Christ built His Church upon Peter and not simply on Peter’s statement of faith to Christ. And Peter was given the power to bind and loose. But wait so were all the disciples. Ok well then you had to interpret the keys given to Peter somehow was something greater than simply the power to bind and losse. So then of course in the end Christ is not going to allow the gates of hell to prevail against His Church. But then you had to interpret in an imperfect world the gates of hell would not prevail without any needed reforms along the way. You had to decide you believed the ECFs could not err.

No no wait. You were guided by the grace of God? So do others very much feel the same way.

See my point. No matter how very much we as humans all want to think we “know” the whole of God’s truth, and I’m certainly as guilty as the next, there is a difference between “knowing” and faith. And this is something I think Catholics and yes many others forget sometimes. Because if we each are completely honest with ourselves, while we may think we do and it’s nice to think so, in truth we do not “know” absolutely, positively, with 100% certainty. In reality we each have our interpretations and beliefs and who is to say one person is absolutely right and another completely wrong? In the end all we really have is faith.

(PS - the thief was saved without water baptism) Peace and God bless.

 

[CMatt25]

“The gates of hell shall NOT prevail”. but still, dealing with all the contradictory doctrines (some great and others very small) leaves me scratching my head.

M&J, the gates won’t prevail. We will know when Christ comes again. In the meantime faith.

 

[BrianH]

I

If Protestants believe the Catholic Church was “derailed” at some point, then why is there not only One protestant church?, Why are there Church of Christ and Church of God and Baptist and Methodist and and and…you get the idea.

Did Jesus teach many different Truths and does God teach that, as an example, that Baptism is right for this group but wrong for the other?:

This is a tough one to answer. The primary reason being why would any Protestant want to challenge or put doubt in the mind of a convert from atheism? Not I.
But yet the direct question directed at Protestants.
So I answer the question by asking a question. Why does there exist churches with Apostolic Succession like the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and the Catholic Church prior to the Reformation? When you answer that, you will have in some part answered your own question. There is a difference in degree naturally but the fundamental answers will be the same depending upon your view.

 

[BrianH]

I am very frustrated too. But there have been disputes since the beginning. The Apostles disputed who among them was the greatest. Paul corrected Peter. There was friction between the various sees. Eventually east and west excommunicated each other. Then the Reformation came later.

But yes you probably are missing something else here. How did you arrive at the point of believing Christ made Peter the first Pope? I trust you did not simply take another person’s word for it and made certain what you saw in Scripture testifies to what you were told. So then you probably interpreted Christ built His Church upon Peter and not simply on Peter’s statement of faith to Christ. And Peter was given the power to bind and loose. But wait so were all the disciples. Ok well then you had to interpret the keys given to Peter somehow was something greater than simply the power to bind and losse. So then of course in the end Christ is not going to allow the gates of hell to prevail against His Church. But then you had to interpret in an imperfect world the gates of hell would not prevail without any needed reforms along the way. You had to decide you believed the ECFs could not err.

No no wait. You were guided by the grace of God? So do others very much feel the same way.

See my point. No matter how very much we as humans all want to think we “know” the whole of God’s truth, and I’m certainly as guilty as the next, there is a difference between “knowing” and faith. And this is something I think Catholics and yes many others forget sometimes. Because if we each are completely honest with ourselves, while we may think we do and it’s nice to think so, in truth we do not “know” absolutely, positively, with 100% certainty. In reality we each have our interpretations and beliefs and who is to say one person is absolutely right and another completely wrong? In the end all we really have is faith.

(PS - the thief was saved without water baptism) Peace and God bless.

 

[wmscott]

This is a tough one to answer. The primary reason being why would any Protestant want to challenge or put doubt in the mind of a convert from atheism? Not I.
But yet the direct question directed at Protestants.
So I answer the question by asking a question. Why does there exist churches with Apostolic Succession like the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and the Catholic Church prior to the Reformation? When you answer that, you will have in some part answered your own question. There is a difference in degree naturally but the fundamental answers will be the same depending upon your view.

If you take the time to study why there is a schism, you will find that the differences are really quite small, try this LINK. You can’t equate the Eastern Churches to Protestantism, nowhere close. Peace.

 

[chaunceygardner]

Many of the OP’s frustrations and questions have been expressed before on CAF, and will certainly be voiced again and again.

A question to ask is: Does any church truly represent the faith established by Jesus and spread by His first disciples? The answer is not very encouraging.

We have taken a relatively simple and beautiful teaching about how we relate to God and how we can achieve eternal bliss with God and have buried it in layers of non-essential stuff: doctrines and dogmas, fancy vestments and sacred vessels, lavish rituals and rites, petty rules and intricate laws, vanity and exclusiveness. Where is God in all this? Where is the church of Jesus? He really doesn’t appear to be accurately represented by most of the Christian churches that I have seen.

Did Jesus give us volumes of laws and rules to follow in every aspect of life? No, He gave us basic commandments, reiterating and emphasizing the essentials from the Jewish commandments, and told us to love God and one another. Then He expected us to apply those basic commands in each and every aspect of our lives.

What fancy raiment did Jesus wear? What about his Apostles? What clothing did they wear at the Last Supper? Most likely, the simple, everyday clothing that the poor wore. What do you think the cups and dishes at that meal were made of? Gold and silver? Hardly.

What rituals and rites did Jesus perform? Not many; He even passed up the required washing of hands before a meal. No, His focus was on performing acts of love and mercy as evidence of one’s faith, not prescribed rituals.

And try to compile a list of the doctrines that came from the mouth of Jesus…not many that some today consider so critical to being part of the “right faith”. But certainly some that are eternal: Do to others as you would have others do to you; turn the other cheek; forgive those who offend you; Love your neighbor (who is everyone in the world). No complex teaching there. And no real “mysteries”.

Did Jesus command us to follow Him because He was powerful and could crush us on a whim? No, He taught, He preached, He gave us many examples of humility and service. He rejoiced when anyone, rich or poor, favored or disenfranchised, caught on to His meaning and message. And He did not gather in just a few chosen ones, but ALL mankind. All are ONE in God.

One big reason for the Reformation was that the Catholic Church strayed far from these basic tenets; unfortunately most Protestant churches have not done much better. So we have a fragmented Christianity, because of what man has done over the centuries to the meaning and message of Jesus. It is in there somewhere, but very difficult to discern amongst all the clutter.

Is the Kingdom of God to be found in a large brick building with stained glass windows, in rich furnishings, vestments and chalices, or in exacting ritual and incense? Is that where we should look for Jesus? No, He said nothing about “going to church” but rather that we would find Him in the sufferings of “the least of our brothers and sisters”, in the spirit of true community, and in purity of heart. To find Jesus today, just look around. He is within us, and we are within Him. But not too many of us are recognizing His presence there. We say we see, but yet we are blind. And the Christian churches in general are not doing a very good job of lifting the mask of ignorance.

 

[KathleenGee]

The teachings of the Catholic Church have never changed.

And what was happening in one diocese was not happening in another…and you would also find very devout Catholics…I mean Christians…living in the notorious areas as well.

The Church did not stop the practice of indulgences.

The United States’ fundamentalist Christians are very hard on Catholicism unlike European Protestants in that they understand the problems better. I just read the story of a fundamentalist who finally became a Catholic priest, and all the personal fears he had to overcome because of such a bad image fundamentalists drive in to their followers.

They don’t realize it is a tactic of the enemy, some leaders do it deliberately to possess their followers and keep them from the freedom of Jesus Christ found in our church.

 

[KathleenGee]

And if you knew about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you would see that the Lord never intended to reduce the Church to a barren meeting hall with simply a bible on a podium.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the fulfillment of ancient liturgies that were instituted by God Himself in worship that pleased Him, not we finding worship to please our whimsy.

The Eucharist we celebrate is of the same God practiced by early Christians, back to the presence of the same God Who led the Jews out of Egypt as a pillar of fire, Who parted the Red Sea, Who provided manna from heaven for His people, Who nurtured them from spiritual children as a people – to spiritual adults.

It is the same with the Church…The beginning Church was just that – primitive.

And as our churches contain the tabernacles of the One True Living God, it is only proper and right that we adorn His house with truth and beauty and sacred symbols and vestments worthy for the altar of Jesus Christ.

Our Liturgy is open to all. Come visit some time.

The more I am on CAF, the more I am seeing the Bible used as an idol to further separate and fragment the Body of Christ. Tradition is interpreting Sacred Scripture in truth…drawing from the Oral Tradition of Jesus Christ down through His apostles…it must be learned as a whole in the whole of the Church, not bits and pieces to fragment.

Jesus Christ is The Word Made Flesh.

 

[Jon_Hus]

Jesus’ prayer was that all would be One as He and the Father are One. Maybe I just don’t understand the definition of ONE:shrug:

I’m really sorry to hear about your frustration, that there are people who have different religious views from yours. In a perfect society, everyone would think and believe what you tell them to think and believe. Maybe you should consider using a bullhorn to get your message to the people?

 

[CMatt25]

Teaching on abstinance obligations have as just one example of course changed over time.

But nevertheless I do think the poster questioning lavishness and exclusiveness gives some pause to ponder. And of course all are welcome but not to His table despite Christ telling us otherwise in Jn 6:37 during His discourse on the Eucharist. I do believe the UMC’s, ECUSA’s, ELCA’s, and others with open Communion get that part right. But oh well just some food for thought to ponder.

 

[1believer1]

Teaching on abstinance obligations have as just one example of course changed over time.

But nevertheless I do think the poster questioning lavishness and exclusiveness gives some pause to ponder. And of course all are welcome but not to His table despite Christ telling us otherwise in Jn 6:37 during His discourse on the Eucharist. I do believe the UMC’s, ECUSA’s, ELCA’s, and others with open Communion get that part right. But oh well just some food for thought to ponder.

Not exactly sure of your point here. As I read it Jesus did and does welcome all to the table, but there are some requirements to be in communion. Help me better understand what you are trying to share. Thanks.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I get soooo frustrated with so many different “types” of Christian faiths.

ONE GOD means He gave us ONE message of salvation

ONE GOD means He has only ONE truth

On my study and journey to the Christain faith (out of the darkness of Atheism), I was confused about which church to worship my new found belief. So many different types of Christain churches with so many differing beliefs.

church “A”…Water baptism not needed for salvation

church “B”…Water baptism needed to wash away original sins

church “C”…No such thing as Original sins

church “D”…Jesus took ALL our sins to the Cross so our salvation is “assured”

I studied and studied all the differing Protestant faiths, and Yes, they have a deep and wonderful love of God and truly wish to follow Him, but after much study on the different denominations, I almost gave up hope that there truly was a God at all. After all, there is only ONE truth, not many!

If not for the Grace of God in leading me to the Catholic Church, I may well have fallen back to my old atheist views (which would have meant Death to my soul)

If Protestants believe the Catholic Church was “derailed” at some point, then why is there not only One protestant church?, Why are there Church of Christ and Church of God and Baptist and Methodist and and and…you get the idea.

Did Jesus teach many different Truths and does God teach that, as an example, that Baptism is right for this group but wrong for the other?

Am I missing something here?

Jesus’ prayer was that all would be One as He and the Father are One. Maybe I just don’t understand the definition of ONE:shrug:

Frustration may indicate a lack of prayer and devotional life. That is what I heard some guy on EWTN say anyway. So, don’t shoot the messenger.

 

[AJTheMan]

I don’t in anyway condem our seperated brothers and sisters in Christ, I admire their love and zeal for our Lord. I am just so confused as to how so many different Protestant faiths can all profess a belief in God yet have different doctrines (or a lack thereof).

Indeed, sinners we all are, and we should pray one for another always, its just that my head spins and confusions set in when confronted with a Gospel “truth” that contradicts my Catholic faith, and to some extent, other protestant faiths I have researched.

Rest assured though, that my journey home to the Catholic Church is Holy Spirit led and that as Jesus promised, “The gates of hell shall NOT prevail”. but still, dealing with all the contradictory doctrines (some great and others very small) leaves me scratching my head.

Yeah, this post reminds me of a video talking about how odd it is that so many people can know the same person (God) and yet all have different accounts of him.

It’s animated and somewhat humorous: Video

 

[StrawberryJam]

Yeah, this post reminds me of a video talking about how odd it is that so many people can know the same person (God) and yet all have different accounts of him.

It’s animated and somewhat humorous: Video

I love that guy!