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Dale_M
Guest
If a woman chooses to veil, I think the issue is a matter of freedom of expression. I agree that punishing women who choose to dress in this manner is unjustifiable.
However, I do think there is some merit in the provision which would punish anyone who forces a woman to dress in this manner.
However, I do think there is some merit in the provision which would punish anyone who forces a woman to dress in this manner.
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CatholicBoy1957
Guest
I like the idea of a ban, but this is for the wrong reason. They should be banned for security. How does a cop know who he’s pulling over? That might really be Jimmy Hoffa under that thing.
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Charlotte408
Guest
But how do you know if a woman is being forced to wear it or not?
Lets keep it real if your man is beating the crud outta you, your so scared you’ll lie up and down for him…if your not so guilted into thinking it’s your own fault somehow anyways.
I thought security was the reason they were doing this, and I’m absolutely for it.
Lets keep it real if your man is beating the crud outta you, your so scared you’ll lie up and down for him…if your not so guilted into thinking it’s your own fault somehow anyways.
I thought security was the reason they were doing this, and I’m absolutely for it.
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Jaelithe
Guest
I find the idea that anyone could favor such a ban almost incomprehensible. It is a curtailment of free expression (in those who do it willingly), no matter the permutations of logic employed to justify it.
How exactly will the gendarmes enforce this? Will they drag women going about the business of living off to jail simply for wearing a piece of clothing that the French government now, for all intents and purposes, simply finds unfashionable? The arrogant presumption that underlies this ban is nothing short of appalling.
How exactly will the gendarmes enforce this? Will they drag women going about the business of living off to jail simply for wearing a piece of clothing that the French government now, for all intents and purposes, simply finds unfashionable? The arrogant presumption that underlies this ban is nothing short of appalling.
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Charlotte408
Guest
No if I made any generalization it was about abused women. And it’s a very real and true one so nice try.
If a woman is being abused, they will lie for their abuser. If a woman is being FORCED to wear a full on burkha, there’s a very high possiblity they are being abused, if you don’t consider her being forced to wear it as a form of abuse in and of itself.
I never made the generalization that ‘muslim women are all abused’.
It doesn’t matter how many women wear it it in France, it’s a security issue. It only takes one person to leave a bomb somewhere.
If a woman is being abused, they will lie for their abuser. If a woman is being FORCED to wear a full on burkha, there’s a very high possiblity they are being abused, if you don’t consider her being forced to wear it as a form of abuse in and of itself.
I never made the generalization that ‘muslim women are all abused’.
It doesn’t matter how many women wear it it in France, it’s a security issue. It only takes one person to leave a bomb somewhere.
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Seamus_L
Guest
The ban is an affront to the dignity of Islamic women, people who like to wear ski masks, and Ninjas.
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Pork_Roll
Guest
I think Christian countries have the right to “regulate” within reason non-Christian" religions. If non-Christians don’t like it, they are free to move to a different country. The only truly just nation is the one who publicly recognizes Christ as King and not democracy, a constitution or secularism.
Nobody believes in absolute religious freedom. At some point, religion has to submit to the secular law. I think catholics can disagree on this issue legitimately.
Nobody believes in absolute religious freedom. At some point, religion has to submit to the secular law. I think catholics can disagree on this issue legitimately.
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Charlotte408
Guest
Ok, and I’m sure most of those people had their faces showing and may have been caught on camera, or identified by someone who saw them or something. Just like Muslim women should be able to be identified in the same way.
Nope, I’m not. You said yourself less than something like 2 thousand women actually wear the full burka, so - if anything I’m ‘generalizing’ about those women.
Are you saying that each and every one of those women is doing it of their free will- and none of them are being abused in any way?
Nope, I’m not. You said yourself less than something like 2 thousand women actually wear the full burka, so - if anything I’m ‘generalizing’ about those women.
Are you saying that each and every one of those women is doing it of their free will- and none of them are being abused in any way?
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Brendan
Guest
If Sarkozy was truely interested in perserving the dignity of women, he should ban the topless beaches, and probably bikini’s as well.
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ritamagadieup
Guest
The point is Muslim men decide for the woman if she should wear a veil.
They came to France for freedom of expression and freedom from oppression.
The muslim men have these right’s but the do not even in France want their woman to be free from their over rated manhood. The men want’s the freedom, but want to keep their woman in the dark ages. Why? bescause they can’t stand for the woman to be equal to them. Because they maybe smarted than the men.
If they want to live in the dark ages, go back to their orginial contry. You say? Oh but they want freedom and they left their country just for freedom. None of you seem to be aware that the muslim’s in France want their women & girls to live as chattal’s to their manhood. They live in a closed society and do not want ourside interferance from the country they now call home. Freedom for the Muslim men
and none for the woman.:
. discused by the muslim man.
They came to France for freedom of expression and freedom from oppression.
The muslim men have these right’s but the do not even in France want their woman to be free from their over rated manhood. The men want’s the freedom, but want to keep their woman in the dark ages. Why? bescause they can’t stand for the woman to be equal to them. Because they maybe smarted than the men.
If they want to live in the dark ages, go back to their orginial contry. You say? Oh but they want freedom and they left their country just for freedom. None of you seem to be aware that the muslim’s in France want their women & girls to live as chattal’s to their manhood. They live in a closed society and do not want ourside interferance from the country they now call home. Freedom for the Muslim men
and none for the woman.:. discused by the muslim man.
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Pork_Roll
Guest
What’s wrong with topless beaches? Is there something wrong with God’s creation? Should we ban masterpieces of art which show topless women?
I think the more you show the less likely men would lust. The totality of the human form doesn’t lend to porno-vision; it’s when we isolate certain body parts that we turn the human form into pornography. At least that’s what JPII says.
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Jaelithe
Guest
Not to mention Batman.
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VivienneJ
Guest
It is too easy to sit in a western mindset and think that we know why Muslim women wear hijabs and burkhas. I know women who choose to cover, even though their husbands do not support this choice; I know women who cover out of respect for their husband’s feelings; I know women who cover because they feel they have no choice.
However, it should be recognised that for a faithful Muslim woman who has been brought up to cover, not wearing hijab or burkha is deeply embarrassing. How sad that a country that promoted freedom has passed a law which would bring embarrassment to those who “break” it, or force those women to stay confined within their homes for ever.
However, it should be recognised that for a faithful Muslim woman who has been brought up to cover, not wearing hijab or burkha is deeply embarrassing. How sad that a country that promoted freedom has passed a law which would bring embarrassment to those who “break” it, or force those women to stay confined within their homes for ever.
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Jaelithe
Guest
According to that ‘logic,’ gloves and mittens should be illegal because people might do something wrong and not leave fingerprints.
Are you saying the fact that a number of Muslim women are cowed into obedience, as undoubtedly some of them are, justifies placing a ban on the majority’s legitimate attempt to practice their religion? Ridiculous.
I mean, what is to say that this ban might not just infuriate Muslim men who then see their women defying sharia into beating them even more—just not in the face?
Abusers will always find reasons for their actions.
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Jaelithe
Guest
Heh. Never saw that.
Of course, my favorite hero is Thor … and his face, when not ravaged by Hela’s Hand of Glory, is uncovered.
Of course, my favorite hero is Thor … and his face, when not ravaged by Hela’s Hand of Glory, is uncovered.
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JHow
Guest
I don’t agree with banning veils. If a woman’s conscience prompts her to wear one, she should follow her conscience.
I am not so naive as to not interpret some muslim’s wearing of the veil as a distinct “I am not you!” message. Duly noted.
One question I have is whether or not veiling as a practice sets up veil-required neighborhoods? That is, areas where a woman not wearing a veil may feel at risk for doing so? I think there is evidence for this in muslim-majority countries. I don’t know about Paris - but I have noticed the periodic car-burning episodes in certain neighborhoods (who doesn’t want to burn a Renault, by the way? They almost burn themselves, if gven half a chance. I once owned a '86 Renault Encore I would have happily burned by the time I sold it!)
To some extent this is the argument employed by the “uncovered meat” guy. Remember him?
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-412697/Outrage-Muslim-cleric-likens-women-uncovered-meat.html
Where I do draw the line is on driver’s licenses. I don’t see how having a clear picture of a person’s face on a driver’s license is a huge intrusion into a person’s civil liberties - unless you want to do away with driver’s licenses for all and have a big free-for-all on the highways, woo- hoo!
In the US, our state-issued driver’s licenses are de-facto ID cards, and they include a person’s picture, plus height, weight, eye color, glasses yes/no, address, vehicle types licensed to drive (commercial, motorcycle, etc.) and organ donor status (in California, anyway). The police do use this information if they have a need to come looking for you, and it seems absurd to me that anyone would be allowed to have their picture taken wearing a veil for this purpose. As to muslim privacy or modesty, a person’s driver’s license is kept in one’s pocket or purse while driving and is not displayed publicly, so I don’t see privacy/modesty as an issue.
I am not so naive as to not interpret some muslim’s wearing of the veil as a distinct “I am not you!” message. Duly noted.
One question I have is whether or not veiling as a practice sets up veil-required neighborhoods? That is, areas where a woman not wearing a veil may feel at risk for doing so? I think there is evidence for this in muslim-majority countries. I don’t know about Paris - but I have noticed the periodic car-burning episodes in certain neighborhoods (who doesn’t want to burn a Renault, by the way? They almost burn themselves, if gven half a chance. I once owned a '86 Renault Encore I would have happily burned by the time I sold it!)
To some extent this is the argument employed by the “uncovered meat” guy. Remember him?
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-412697/Outrage-Muslim-cleric-likens-women-uncovered-meat.html
Where I do draw the line is on driver’s licenses. I don’t see how having a clear picture of a person’s face on a driver’s license is a huge intrusion into a person’s civil liberties - unless you want to do away with driver’s licenses for all and have a big free-for-all on the highways, woo- hoo!
In the US, our state-issued driver’s licenses are de-facto ID cards, and they include a person’s picture, plus height, weight, eye color, glasses yes/no, address, vehicle types licensed to drive (commercial, motorcycle, etc.) and organ donor status (in California, anyway). The police do use this information if they have a need to come looking for you, and it seems absurd to me that anyone would be allowed to have their picture taken wearing a veil for this purpose. As to muslim privacy or modesty, a person’s driver’s license is kept in one’s pocket or purse while driving and is not displayed publicly, so I don’t see privacy/modesty as an issue.
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Brendan
Guest
The Church recognizes the Virtue of Modesty. All Catholics are called to excercise Virtue, and therefore all Catholics should excercise modesty. That includes modesty in action, thought AND dress.
catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=647
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JHow
Guest
I have a friend who used to say (in reference to cycling shorts) that “Spandex is a privelege, not a right.”
Modesty saves us from more than just scandal, but also embarrassment.
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agnes_therese
Guest
So you also would like to see coats banned? Heavy sweaters? Backpacks? Purses? Briefcases? . . .
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