France's Dwindling Mass-Goers Means Demolished Gothic Churches

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wisdomseeker said:
I so agree with you. they should be ashamed of themselves.
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You’re forgetting that the pastor agrees with the government’s assessment. The church was abandoned years ago anyway.
reggieM said:
True. Also, a Catholic Church completed in 1870 at least in the U.S. would qualify for historic landmark status (and thus, protection) on that basis alone.
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Churches like this are a dime a dozen in Europe.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Churches like this are a dime a dozen in Europe.
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Consecrated places are never a dime a dozen. They’re made sacred by annointing, the offering of Mass and the miracles worked there. They’re of inestimably great value.
 
reggieM said:
Consecrated places are never a dime a dozen. They’re made sacred by annointing, the offering of Mass and the miracles worked there. They’re of inestimably great value.
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Then let the Vatican pick up the tab for the restoration of a building that is literally falling apart, hasn’t been used in years, and won’t be used again. The government of France is not responsible for it’s appalling condition and shouldn’t be responsible for it’s restoration. There is no alternative to demolishing it unless the Catholic Church is willing to fork over the money to restore it or willing to pay the price if falling debris injures or kills someone
 
An agnostic’s opinion, replete with latent hostility towards the Catholic Faith and callousness in general, offered for no apparent reason except, perhaps, to argue …
 
One of the interesting things being talked about is , making use of help of the electronic age ; there are some centers where people have flocked in, to listen to The Word, participate in the powerful prayer ministry and recieve the freedom from lukewarmness, hardness of heart etc ; which are all consequences of sinful choices ( even the seemingly common use of cotraceptives can lead to such effects !)

These centers are visited by thousands of persons, day in day out , for years …the priests at these centers seem specailly devoted to not only preaching the word but also use power of prayer mixed in with the talks - often a mix of exorcism prayers , praise , adoration …in the Presnce of The Eucharistic Lord …and often with testimonies from persons who receiev healings , deliverance etc :interspersed with good music too …

One very biblical practice they follow is also serve simple meals to the ones who come to attend …a sign of good will, hospitality and ofcourse , to follow what our Lord did …

Since such ministries are not that many , there are propositions , to set up smaller churches , for such servieces , using the electronic screen, to make such available to many more churches - may be a decaon in attendance , if priests cannot be … and with a fairly good size screen that could project the talks by the veteran priests who seem esp. gifted in this area …may be even use of interpreters , if needed …

Good thing is , it can also help the parish priest , not to have to directly bring up some difficult topics too often , in these days of political correctness but still the topics could be well brought out and again with / under power of prayer …

Many villages with old folks sitting isolated in cold apts , lonely and uncared for …young wandering around aimlessly …adult men, gossipping in pubs …may be the attraction of companionship, the liveliness , compassion, and being able to hear how God makes a diffrence in lives of many …the shared meals together …churches again to become the heartbeat of villages and towns … and persons finding sacramental life to be an integral part of one’s life again .

The ripple effects in health , reduction in alcoholism etc: can also be good …

May The Spirit move hearts , to move with the need of the times …and bring forth the spring time of new life , not just for old churches but for eternal souls …

May prayers of St.John Vianney be with all , esp. all our priests !

Peace and blessings !
 
The way the faith is failing in western Europe, I’m surprised that those marvelous oold churches haven’t gone the way of the Haigia Sophia in Istanbul( Constantinople)! After all, the largest growing so-called religion there is Islam and I’m sure they could always use a few more mosques. Sad but true!!!
 
bkovacs said:
I wouldn’t say that all of France is loosing the faith. What needs to be done is for those within the Church of France who have brought it to it’s demise to be held accountable and removed. Such as liberal clergy, religious, and the laity who have all but taken over the Church. They need to go and go now!. The Pope needs to re-introduce an Office, but in modern non violent form. But effective!. The Office of Inquisitor!. I’m not joking !. Something drastic needs to be done to get rid of these people. Here is a good example why from an Anglo-Catholic Blog (Yes Anglo-Catholics are or will be in communion with Rome probably starting this year).

From a parish in France,

fratres.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/video-the-battle-of-thiberville-rainbow-vested-bishop-jeered-at-by-angry-parishioners/

Anglo Catholic Article with Battle of Thiberville talked about at end of article.
theanglocatholic.com/2010/01/episcopal-bullying/
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bkovacs said:
I wouldn’t say that all of France is loosing the faith. What needs to be done is for those within the Church of France who have brought it to it’s demise to be held accountable and removed. Such as liberal clergy, religious, and the laity who have all but taken over the Church. They need to go and go now!. The Pope needs to re-introduce an Office, but in modern non violent form. But effective!. The Office of Inquisitor!. I’m not joking !. Something drastic needs to be done to get rid of these people. Here is a good example why from an Anglo-Catholic Blog (Yes Anglo-Catholics are or will be in communion with Rome probably starting this year).

From a parish in France,

fratres.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/video-the-battle-of-thiberville-rainbow-vested-bishop-jeered-at-by-angry-parishioners/

Anglo Catholic Article with Battle of Thiberville talked about at end of article.
theanglocatholic.com/2010/01/episcopal-bullying/
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In terms of social justice issues, what do you consider a ‘liberal’ Catholic?
 
JimG said:
It all started with the French Revolution, which was determined to wipe out the Catholic Church.
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hmm… the French Revolution may have unleashed pent up sentiments, but those sentiments likely existed before the overthrow of the Ancien Régime. The revolution simply took the lid off the pressure cooker. In that sense, the Catholic Church in France has been failing for many centuries. But certainly it did not respond well in the aftermath of the revolution.
 
The vote by the council was 17-16, not an overwhelming majority! I agree with the person quoted who said that the priest could have swayed the people to preserve it. However, the priest is in his 60s and is responsible for 4 parishes/towns, he very likely just couldn’t deal with campaigning for the restoration while also caring for the rest of his parishes and parishioners.

Rather than a purging, we need conversion. We all need to be praying more!
 
Catholic_Press said:
GESTÉ, France — The soaring steeple, airy flying buttresses and steep slate roof of the 19th-century parish church that dominates this town in western France is — like many other village churches in France — scheduled for demolition, a victim of its size, its condition and, ultimately, municipal budget concerns.

More…
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The CC should step up to the plate and maintain its churches. Seemed like a good idea at the time to build them. Nobody else is responsible for them. Sell a few paintings and put a roof on. The Vatican is jam packed, with each work of art worth tens to hundreds of millions in the current market. Otherwise, the building should be demolished. I agree that it is a terrible loss architecturally and historically, but why should the French Government worry about it? It is CC property which has probably enjoyed tax exemption for centuries.
 
Mudgely said:
The CC should step up to the plate and maintain its churches. Seemed like a good idea at the time to build them. Nobody else is responsible for them. Sell a few paintings and put a roof on. The Vatican is jam packed, with each work of art worth tens to hundreds of millions in the current market. Otherwise, the building should be demolished. I agree that it is a terrible loss architecturally and historically, but why should the French Government worry about it? It is CC property which has probably enjoyed tax exemption for centuries.
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Apparently French law says that the buildings belong to the government. At the time the law was written, I imagine to gov was trying to confescate all of the church’s land and treasury. Now that they own it, they’ve figured out they don’t want to maintain it. Sounds like “buyer’s remorse” 100 years or so too late. 😛
 
Mudgely said:
The CC should step up to the plate and maintain its churches. Seemed like a good idea at the time to build them. Nobody else is responsible for them. Sell a few paintings and put a roof on. The Vatican is jam packed, with each work of art worth tens to hundreds of millions in the current market. Otherwise, the building should be demolished. I agree that it is a terrible loss architecturally and historically, but why should the French Government worry about it? It is CC property which has probably enjoyed tax exemption for centuries.
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:rolleyes: The Vatican does not own parish buildings. The parishioners might, the individual church might, the diocese might, or the government might (as is common in Europe). And what are people supposed to do once the vatican sells all that art and is locked away in some private art collection? (Not to mention that if the vatican did try to sell their art, they would flood the market and make all the art worthless).
 
Yeah, I did realize the article was January 4, 2010.

I think the saddest part about this article is at the very end, one of the town’s people criticizes the new Church being built to replace this one saying, "It’s for entertainment, it’s a music hall,” he said dismissively. “You could put a sign on it saying, ‘Groceries.’ ”

The second saddest part is how the priest responsible for this Church is responsible for 4 parishes/ congregations. And, that there are only 9,000 priests in France now compared with 40,000 in 1940.

I can’t help but be reminded of the Russian Orthodox Church coming out of the Communist era in Soviet Russia. I think almost every Church was converted into a museum, theatre, cultural center, etc. And now the Church is struggling to regain it’s old property, not to mention most of its former flock.

The main connection I want to make is that Secularism is just as much of a menace and threat to Christianity as Communism was.
 
Has it crossed anybody’s mind in the church’s leadership, wheather in Rome or in the offices of American and French dioceses, that a successful New Evangelization would possibly lead to the need for more churches (and Catholic schools)? If they are serious about NE, they should do their best to keep and save many of the beautiful structures to support future growth.
 
ffny said:
Has it crossed anybody’s mind in the church’s leadership, wheather in Rome or in the offices of American and French dioceses, that a successful New Evangelization would possibly lead to the need for more churches (and Catholic schools)? If they are serious about NE, they should do their best to keep and save many of the beautiful structures to support future growth.
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However, the new evangelism is not going to change demographics. Parishes need to be where the people are. A beautiful large church in a small town where people have been leaving for jobs still isn’t going to be easy to maintain – even if most of the remaining population starts going to Mass again.

Similar (but maybe the reverse) situation in the US where many small parishes used to be close together because they catered to different immigrant or language populations. Today it would be unwieldy to continue to manage several smaller churches, meeting halls etc when a combined larger parish would be more practical.

Not all decisions should be financial, but until the new evangelization and subsequent parish giving increases, parishes/diocese like the one in the article will have to make financial decisions. 😦
 
Mrs_Sally said:
However, the new evangelism is not going to change demographics. Parishes need to be where the people are. A beautiful large church in a…
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I understand. One example is a New York parish, with a church built I think in the 18th Century, that has seen a massive growth in CCD enrollment and participation. This church used to be a commuter church for weekday workers to the area. The parish neighborhood has seen tremendous population growth, especially from families. Many new residential buildings are scheduled to come “on line” in the next few years. Public schools are not being built or opened fast enough to accomodate the new kids. (I wish the area Catholic schools could benefit from this but they are not in or near this growing neighborhood.)

Now, this example is probably not (IMO) due to evangelization. It’s probably a return to the Church for many lost or dispersed Catholics; maybe something else, but not NE. There are a few other neighboring parishes which are seeing growth as well (but I don’t know how they compare), and they have beautiful (again, I think 18th Century) churches.

My point is, in a way combined with your comment, that existing parishes with beautiful churches could be focal points for growth (NE?). If feasible. Maybe it’s “re-evangelization” or “re-activation” of fading parishes.
 
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