France's hurricane

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cestusdei

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It wasn’t that long ago that the French were watching with scarcely concealed glee the destruction of hurricane Katrina. They took the opportunity to lecture us on how the French and European model of socialism was so far superior. Plus a few jabs about racism tossed in. They seemed almost happy that the government took several days to get things under control.

Ah, now we have over 12 days of riots and no control at all in France. And it’s spreading. Their government is far slower and more inefficient then ours. All they can do is blame each other and seek compromise with criminals and Islamicists. Just wait, if it becomes a full blown civil war they will start screaming for American help. Afterwards they would be very grateful for about 5 minutes. Let’s hope they remember these riots the next time they criticize us. Someday they are going to need us.
 
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cestusdei:
It wasn’t that long ago that the French were watching with scarcely concealed glee the destruction of hurricane Katrina. They took the opportunity to lecture us on how the French and European model of socialism was so far superior. Plus a few jabs about racism tossed in. They seemed almost happy that the government took several days to get things under control.

Ah, now we have over 12 days of riots and no control at all in France. And it’s spreading. Their government is far slower and more inefficient then ours. All they can do is blame each other and seek compromise with criminals and Islamicists. Just wait, if it becomes a full blown civil war they will start screaming for American help. Afterwards they would be very grateful for about 5 minutes. Let’s hope they remember these riots the next time they criticize us. Someday they are going to need us.
And we will help them. Maybe they will learn a thing or two about reality in all of this chaos. I think it’s important to not do the same in return to them. Lets not watch in glee as peoples cars homes and property are torched.

The people there are much like the people here. In all truth I can picture some poor lady looking out her window watching some punks burn her car. Maybe she is wondering how she will take her kids to school tommorow. Hopefully all of this can brought under control without too many body bags being filled.

-D
 
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cestusdei:
It . Just wait, if it becomes a full blown civil war they will start screaming for American help. Afterwards they would be very grateful for about 5 minutes. .
welcome back, c’est.
the thought of sending Marines into France is just about irresistible, if anybody wants to start a thread comparing Chirac to the mayor of NO or gov. of LA I’d be interested.
 
I think this whole deal is pointing out that we can’t ever sit back smug and sure of our own country or our own life. We always need to be prepared. Pointing fingers is a very stupid thing, isn’t it? I am shocked at the amount of discrimination that exists in France. Perhaps they had me convinced that they had it all figured out. Instead, they were overlooking an entire segment of their population for some reason. France is learning the hard way. It is not just their treatment of immigrants that needs to be looked at, but the amount of social services that render people incapable of work.
 
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Fitz:
I think this whole deal is pointing out that we can’t ever sit back smug and sure of our own country or our own life. We always need to be prepared. Pointing fingers is a very stupid thing, isn’t it? I am shocked at the amount of discrimination that exists in France. Perhaps they had me convinced that they had it all figured out. Instead, they were overlooking an entire segment of their population for some reason. France is learning the hard way. It is not just their treatment of immigrants that needs to be looked at, but the amount of social services that render people incapable of work.
thanks fitz, I must admit that you and I seldom agree but on this issue I am fully with you.

The problems at present being experienced in France are very symptomatic of the “Gallic” approach to their way of life. You only have to look in recent history at the performance of many in authority in France at the thought that any WORD that is English should be banned from the French language. We would often laugh at the silliness of it but, it showed an underlying contempt for anything “not French”. It is a case of national pride taken to extremes. For anyone to say that they must not be smug and to be over sure of their own country is VERY perceptive, excessive national pride can very quickly transform itself into arrogance.

For the French, their notion of “complete” nationality without room for variation or accomodation of others ethnicity has lead them to this situation. Anyone who ascribes to a different form of “Frenchness” albeit Muslim, Bhuddism, or even Christianity is considered beyond the pail and as such is seperated from society. It is right that we should have sympathy for those being subjected to this anarchy but, it is also worth bearing in mind that it is this same citizen who placed the current and past governments in power to create the situation they are now suffering from.

Much is made about the “Islamic” threat to Europe but, again this is very much a French problem. In the rest of Europe, and particularly in the UK there is no barrier to ANYONE, Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist, or even Wicken climbing the ladder to the top in private or state organisations. In the UK we have had cabinet ministrers from many different ethnic minorities, we even have one from SPAIN, (not overly popular but that a personal thing, not national). In the UK we even have a government department dedicated to Racial Equality. We might not always agree with what they say but, at least there is a forum for saying it. Even in this situation all is not perfect but, at least the potential problems have been recognised and SOME attempt made to circumvent them.

The rioters in France are mainly second or third generation North Africans. They are in a country that forbids them from linking with their past heritage but also excludes them from becoming “French” on their own terms. the result is that in the areas where the problems started 40% of the population is under 25 years of age and, of those, 40% are unemployed. This is a very large portion of disenfranchised people and to call them “scum” etc. is not only provocative it’s downright unchristian.

I watched the French interior minister giving his “scum” speech on the box the other day and, for reasons beyond this forum, the sound was muted. To watch the body language was frightening, my first thought was how reminiscent it was of the speeches I have seen of Goebbels, in Germany, during the 1930’s, ranting on about the “Jews”. I have discovered it is an interesting exercise NOT to listen but just watch, it’s surprising what you see!!
 
Always provide a link to a publically available news source.
 
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Fitz:
It is not just their treatment of immigrants that needs to be looked at, but the amount of social services that render people incapable of work.
Yes. :yup: 👍
 
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walstan:
thanks fitz, I must admit that you and I seldom agree but on this issue I am fully with you.

The problems at present being experienced in France are very symptomatic of the “Gallic” approach to their way of life. You only have to look in recent history at the performance of many in authority in France at the thought that any WORD that is English should be banned from the French language. We would often laugh at the silliness of it but, it showed an underlying contempt for anything “not French”. It is a case of national pride taken to extremes. For anyone to say that they must not be smug and to be over sure of their own country is VERY perceptive, excessive national pride can very quickly transform itself into arrogance.

For the French, their notion of “complete” nationality without room for variation or accomodation of others ethnicity has lead them to this situation. Anyone who ascribes to a different form of “Frenchness” albeit Muslim, Bhuddism, or even Christianity is considered beyond the pail and as such is seperated from society. It is right that we should have sympathy for those being subjected to this anarchy but, it is also worth bearing in mind that it is this same citizen who placed the current and past governments in power to create the situation they are now suffering from.
The French have seemed arrogant to many of us on the outside. I just did not realize how they seemed even to their own citizens. I do feel sorry for all of them involved because the solution will definitey be hard for them. If their economy is poor then it will be hard for them to offer jobs where none exist.

I don’t think the solutions will be quick or easy. Many more nights of unrest are ahead of them I fear.
 
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Fitz:
The French have seemed arrogant to many of us on the outside. I just did not realize how they seemed even to their own citizens. I do feel sorry for all of them involved because the solution will definitey be hard for them. If their economy is poor then it will be hard for them to offer jobs where none exist.

I don’t think the solutions will be quick or easy. Many more nights of unrest are ahead of them I fear.
I’m not sure that arrogance is the real problem, having been beaten so often in war (that is not a sarcastic comment, it’s the reality of Europe) I suspect there is an inbred fear of losing ones national identity. This sort of fear would almost certainly lead to an exaggeration of identifiable national traites and a desire to be, and for others to be “more French than the French”. I suppose in essence it’s a lack of confidance.

At least this mornings news is a little better, riots overnight were at a lower level than on previous nights, maybe with Gods help it’s quietening down.
 
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walstan:
I’m not sure that arrogance is the real problem, having been beaten so often in war (that is not a sarcastic comment, it’s the reality of Europe) I suspect there is an inbred fear of losing ones national identity. This sort of fear would almost certainly lead to an exaggeration of identifiable national traites and a desire to be, and for others to be “more French than the French”. I suppose in essence it’s a lack of confidance.

At least this mornings news is a little better, riots overnight were at a lower level than on previous nights, maybe with Gods help it’s quietening down.
Je pense que je peux être d’accord avec vous :eek:
 
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