France's Macron issues 'Republican values' ultimatum to Muslim leaders

[Regular_Atheist]

I think you know this answer

Have you read the Koran?

An interesting read

No, I don’t know the answer. I am asking.

Don’t all religions that purport to be universal religions call for world domination? Christians crusaded in an effort to spread their religion, and without a lot of the religious wars they fought Christianity would not have become quite so wide spread. The Northern Crusades come to mind in particular.

The fact is that a lot of Islamic rule was seen as a preferable alternative to Christian rule for some Christian minorities because there was generally little pressure to convert under Islamic rule. The Byzantines would demand that Armenian Coptics convert to Orthodox Christianity, while Islamic rulers would not make such demands, preferring to rule as an Islamic ruling class. It doesn’t seem obvious to me that Islam is inherently more aggressive.

Most of the modern Islamic terrorism we see today has its roots in Wahhabism, a movement in Islam that developed very late in opposition to European involvement in the Middle East. We’re talking the 18th and 19th centuries.

 

[upant]

Don’t all religions that purport to be universal religions call for world domination?

by fighting? it is in the Koran,

show me where in the New Testament Jesus commands his followers to fight

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,1 until they pay the tax,2 willingly submitting, fully humbled.
Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran
Surah At-Tawbah - 29 - Quran.com

Christians crusaded in an effort to spread their religion,

or did they crusade to free Jerusalem?

Jesus didn’t command his followers to gain converts by fighting. Jesus’ message was a message of Love, the crusaders abandoned the example of Jesus Christ

The fact is that a lot of Islamic rule was seen as a preferable alternative to Christian rule for some Christian minorities because there was generally little pressure to convert under Islamic rule.

here were the options,

“I call you to God and to Islam. If you respond to the call, you are Muslims: You obtain the benefits they enjoy and take up the responsibilities they bear. If you refuse, then [you must pay] the jizyah. If you refuse the jizyah, I will bring against you tribes of people who are more eager for death than you are for life. We will fight you until God decides between us and you.” (Tabari, The Challenge to the Empires, trans. Khalid Yahya Blankinship, NY: SUNYP, 1993, vol. 11, p. 4; Arabic page 2017)

Most of the modern Islamic terrorism we see today has its roots in Wahhabism, a movement in Islam that developed very late in opposition to European involvement in the Middle East. We’re talking the 18th and 19th centuries.

the basis for the terrorism is rooted in their history from the start.

 

[upant]

I’m not defending Islam. I’m noting what the Church teaches about Muslims and what, as a Catholic, I’m required to assent to.

how does what the church teaches about Muslims apply to Macron’s ultimatum?

 

[Donkey]

A converse picture of the direction USA will be taking if/when Biden is sworn into office.

France cracking down

Just 8 more days…

 

[Donkey]

Cracking down and cleaning up
Period

 

[RhodesianSon]

Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam return and with it the menace of an armed Mohammedan world, which will shake off the domination of Europeans - still nominally Christian - and reappear as the prime enemy of our civilization? The future always comes as a surprise, but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam.

Hilaire Belloc

 

[RootKitWarrior]

On Jan 1, 2021 who will care here?

 

[Donkey]

You could be correct but in the meantime…

 

[qui_est_ce]

My family is French. The Muslims there do not want to assimilate. It’s a problem. I grew up in a bi-lingual home in the U.S. We weren’t allowed to speak English in the house. But we did not expect Americans to accommodate us. We continued our traditions from the “old country.”

My mother is a naturalized American. She loved our constitution. She learned English and did quite well (except she drove like a European and had a lot of accidents).

 

[Donkey]

In an effort to eliminate Islamic own self imposed separatism …France is deporting many known for radicalism and shutting down a reported 76 Mosques.

Assimilation is key to success when choosing to move to a new country. Some get it. Some don’t.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Assimilation is key to success when choosing to move to a new country. Some get it. Some don’t.

I remember being a teen-ager visiting family friends in Germany. The Turks would congregate at the railroad station in Franfurt smoking cigarettes. They weren’t used to western women’s dress. You couldn’t walk by without them hissing and harassing us. They were pretty aggressive and it was scary.

 

[Feanor2]

Donkey:

Assimilation is key to success when choosing to move to a new country. Some get it. Some don’t.

I remember being a teen-ager visiting family friends in Germany. The Turks would congregate at the railroad station in Franfurt smoking cigarettes. They weren’t used to western women’s dress. You couldn’t walk by without them hissing and harassing us. They were pretty aggressive and it was scary.

There’s a lot of back and forth with Turkish and German population. I’ve always wondered why that is. Germans going to Turkey and Turks going to Germany.

 

[Donkey]

Okay but remember that the topic is France’s Macron issue and timed ultimatum…so we are waiting, watching and discussing that development.

 

[Feanor2]

Okay but remember that the topic is France’s Macron issue and timed ultimatum…so we are waiting, watching and discussing that development.

You’re right. I was off-topic.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Gastarbeiter 123456

 

[Donkey]

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www.theguardian.com

Despite the pandemic, more than 8,000 entered via the Channel…that is just one outlet.
France continues to crack down.
Actions are speaking louder than words.

And no surprise that…

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www.reuters.com

Too bad Erdogan.
Macron is simply doing his job to protect France.

 

[Donkey]

Erdogan can remain ‘annoyed’.
Besides being a strong supporter of terrorism and guilty many war crimes he continues his rampage openly.

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nordicmonitor.com

In June 2020 he met Mehmet Ali Ağca, the Turkish nationalist who attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul II in 1981.

Macron needs to continue with his mission. Praying for France and Macron. France has only one direction to move and they are doing it.

 

[Victoria33]

BIG protests there today, at least, cars set on fire and stuff. Making international news.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...st-in-paris-against-security-bill/ar-BB1bEJ0m

The beating of a Black man, music producer Michel Zecler, by several police officers in late November intensified public anger. That incident came to light after closed circuit television and mobile phone footage circulated online.

This was obviously wrong but otherwise, I think Macron is pretty much spot on with his measures.

Erdogan said something like France doesn’t need Macron. Something, I forget what exactly.

 

[Donkey]

The protests against the security bill are unwarranted during this intense and dangerous time. Focusing on the beating of a black man is copycat of recent revolts in the USA.

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www.jihadwatch.org

Erdogan is up against a rising wall.

Every American needs to ask why the evening world news ABC, NBC and CBS long ago stopped reporting real news. Long gone are the days when real world news came from the news anchor’s lips. Sorry we must dig around to find out what is really happening and share in places like this.

 

[Rozellelily]

I think this is the key here. The Muslims in your wife’s Russian city/village are quite secular, or iow, not extreme Muslims. The same is for Kyrgyz and Kazakh Muslims, the Muslims of my ethnicity (Bosnian).
The Muslims that Macron is dealing with are sometimes very extremist Muslims, who want the quality of life of France, but at the same time hate Frances values and everything she represents.

When he is dealing with some people that are not even willing to tolerate their new countries values, what can he do then?
If they want to live is a seperate community, hate the rest of French population, dress young daughters in Niqab etc, is Macron expected to be a leader, or is he expected to do nothing?

Not all Muslims in France are this way minded, but it only takes one to commit an atrocity of what happened to that poor teacher or in the Church as Nice.