Frances Swaggart's Whore of Babylon

[Dancelittleewok]

Hello fellow Catholics:

Go to: jsm.org/explore.cfm/theevangelist/

Click on any of the months and read the Evangelist’s articles about “Catholicism: Modern Day Whore of Babylon.” (It should be around page 10 or 15).

Is there an appropriate response to this?

Thanks,
Dancelittleewok

 

[Della]

Yes, to ignore such out and out nonsense!

 

[mercygate]

Hello fellow Catholics:

Go to: jsm.org/explore.cfm/theevangelist/

Click on any of the months and read the Evangelist’s articles about “Catholicism: Modern Day Whore of Babylon.” (It should be around page 10 or 15).

Is there an appropriate response to this?

Thanks,
Dancelittleewok

In 1997 the JSM was worth >$100M. The salaries of the principals in this organization are in the high six figures. Pot: meet kettle.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Yes, to ignore such out and out nonsense!

You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?

 

[Della]

You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?

Well, many have tried to no avail. You see, this sort of accusation has been brought against the Church for centuries. It has been answered a million times, but there are people who continue to push this garbage because it benefits them or their sect in some way. If Catholics spent every day of their lives trying to answer every such attack, we’d be doing nothing else 24/7. If they want to know what the Church is and what it teaches all they have to do is read a copy of the Catechism. That they refuse to do so (except to take things out of context to try to “prove” their point, as they do the Bible) says everything to me. They aren’t interested in learning the truth, sad to say. And although it is impossible for us to reply to all such attacks, we have an ace in the hole–we can pray for them, and be on sites such as this one to help people with their questions about the Church. That’s really all we can do.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?

Dear dance

I do not think Della was intending to send that message. I would say that Della was trying to say that any and all dialog would be unproductive seeing as the people who generally hold these views are set in their beliefs and there is little if any chance of persuading them from it, and it would in that case be best to ignore it. I would encourage you to study up on the issue and come to a conclusion as to why this man, and all men like him who hold this idea, are wrong.

God Bless

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Dear dance

I do not think Della was intending to send that message. I would say that Della was trying to say that any and all dialog would be unproductive seeing as the people who generally hold these views are set in their beliefs and there is little if any chance of persuading them from it, and it would in that case be best to ignore it. I would encourage you to study up on the issue and come to a conclusion as to why this man, and all men like him who hold this idea, are wrong.
God Bless

Can you explain this quote? Does this man refer to Swaggart or Della?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Can you explain this quote? Does this man refer to Swaggart or Della?

Dear dance

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant to say to study as to why men like Swaggart are wrong about the Church being the whore of babylon. Sorry if there was any confusion.

God Bless

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Dear dance

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant to say to study as to why men like Swaggart are wrong about the Church being the whore of babylon. Sorry if there was any confusion.

God Bless

I’ve sent them the CA “Whore of Babylon” in the past. I know it’s useless, but it’s hard to watch them misrepresent and slander Our Church. By insulting the Church, they are insulting Jesus Himself.

 

[Della]

Dear dance

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant to say to study as to why men like Swaggart are wrong about the Church being the whore of babylon. Sorry if there was any confusion.

God Bless

I agree. What you learn, dear Dance, might not make a dent in what Frances Swaggert and others who hold to the “Whore of Babylon” being the Church write, but it would help you when you run up against it in the forum or with people you meet who believe it, but are willing to listen to the truth.

The whole crux of the issue is others’ willingness to listen to the truth. When people are not willing to do this, nothing anyone can say will make any difference. This is why we must rely so much on prayer. Because anyone who claims to belong to Christ might some day be open to listening to the Holy Spirit speaking in his heart, and the Holy Spirit is a far better persuader than anyone else could be.

 

[Fidelis]

You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?

If you have the time and energy to go after every anti-Catholic crank web-site on the Internet, go for it – and God bless you. I hope you are young and have a lot of leisure time because it would be a full time job lasting a lifetime with very little to show for it.

A more productive strategy is to fight anti-Catholicism where you find it – in your neighborhood or familiy. Write your newspaper or TV station when they show anti-Catholic bias. Teach an apologetics class at church to help equip your fellow Catholics who are losing their family members to these liars. You can do more good one-on-one than banging your head against faceless hate-mongering cowards who stay secure in their bigotry by hiding behind the anonymity of the computer.

 

[Fidelis]

You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?

If you have the time and energy to go after every anti-Catholic crank web-site on the Internet, go for it – and God bless you. I hope you are young and have a lot of leisure time because it would be a full time job lasting a lifetime with very little to show for it.

A more productive strategy is to fight anti-Catholicism where you find it – in your neighborhood or familiy. Write your newspaper or TV station when they show anti-Catholic bias. Teach an apologetics class at church to help equip your fellow Catholics who are losing their family members to these liars. You can do more good one-on-one than banging your head against faceless hate-mongering cowards who stay secure in their bigotry by hiding behind the anonymity of the computer.

 

[Milliardo]

Has this been proven? No. Can they prove this with absolute certainty? No. They tried to; they failed so many times, yet they keep on coming back to dish out the same refuted arguments. One needs to pass such things over to more productive and better reading resources than dwell on something like this. In short, nothing new on this, just the same rehashed and tired notion.

 

[Liberian]

Dance Little Ewok,

Yes … DNFTT (Do Not Feed The Trolls). How much success have we had on CARM convincing them that the Catholic Church is not the Whore of Babylon?

Regarding Jimmy Swaggart in particular there is a history which you might be old enough to remember … and which you won’t find on his web site, I am sure.

• Liberian

 

[frnate]

Well, I must say, I’m proud of all of you for not taking the cheap shot at Mr. Swaggart.

Lord put your arm around my shoulders and your hand over my mouth!

I had the cheap shot typed out but could not post it.

Y’all pray for me a sinner.

Peace,
+Nathan

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Dance Little Ewok,

Yes … DNFTT (Do Not Feed The Trolls). How much success have we had on CARM convincing them that the Catholic Church is not the Whore of Babylon?

Regarding Jimmy Swaggart in particular there is a history which you might be old enough to remember … and which you won’t find on his web site, I am sure.

• Liberian

Hey, friend! I admit that this post was made out semi-frustration. What’s history about Jimmy Swaggart? I find it curious that in regards to sin, he claims “Devil makes you do it”…?

 

[Contarini]

You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?

What’s to “educate”? Sure there is plenty of misrepresentation, but it’s a fallacy to think that such attacks come purely from misunderstanding. In the most recent issue Frances Swaggart says this:

all religions, with the exception of true Christianity, have a mystic side to them Now it’s true that her definition of mysticism draws heavily on sources that talk about monistic, pantheistic mysticism. But still, she’s opposed to all forms of contemplative practice, all forms of asceticism, any idea that human effort can contribute to sanctification. . . .

This isn’t a matter for “education.” It’s a genuine chasm between two different conceptions of religion. It’s particularly ironic to hear a Pentecostal denouncing mysticism, but still, she’s made her choice. Her “true Christianity” is a modernist delusion and it needs to be named as such. It’s a religion designed for a mechanized, industrialized, materialistic society. By separating “true” spiritual experience from the natural human bent toward spirituality, she helps ensure that spirituality will never challenge the structures of modern society.

Edwin

 

[mercygate]

Hey, friend! I admit that this post was made out semi-frustration. What’s history about Jimmy Swaggart? I find it curious that in regards to sin, he claims “Devil makes you do it”…?

You may be too young to remember. He was involved in a personal scandal 18 years ago that just about destroyed his ministry.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

What’s to “educate”? Sure there is plenty of misrepresentation, but it’s a fallacy to think that such attacks come purely from misunderstanding. In the most recent issue Frances Swaggart says this: Now it’s true that her definition of mysticism draws heavily on sources that talk about monistic, pantheistic mysticism. But still, she’s opposed to all forms of contemplative practice, all forms of asceticism, any idea that human effort can contribute to sanctification. . . .

This isn’t a matter for “education.” It’s a genuine chasm between two different conceptions of religion. It’s particularly ironic to hear a Pentecostal denouncing mysticism, but still, she’s made her choice. Her “true Christianity” is a modernist delusion and it needs to be named as such. It’s a religion designed for a mechanized, industrialized, materialistic society. By separating “true” spiritual experience from the natural human bent toward spirituality, she helps ensure that spirituality will never challenge the structures of modern society.

Edwin

It’s good to hear another point of view from this, Edwin. Do you think the Swaggarts are intentionally trying to mislead people and they do know the CC truely believes? Of course, I am asking you to speculate, but I’d like your opinion.

 

[Free_Grace]

Hey, friend! I admit that this post was made out semi-frustration. What’s history about Jimmy Swaggart? I find it curious that in regards to sin, he claims “Devil makes you do it”…?

Mr. Swaggart developed a love for women other than his wife.

As far as Mr. Swaggart goes, I really wouldn’t worry about the likes of him, little Ewok. There are a few stories I could share with you about him, but to do so right now would be out of frustration. Suffice to say, not all who claim God are actually of God.