Francis to Abolish Summorum Pontificorum?

[Augustinian]

Because that is exactly the way that the EF is ‘presented’ to the average U.S. Catholic --as some sort of inferior, less than useful, unnecessary, outright WRONG that only the crazies and losers would be interested in.

I never thought that, of course I’m old and remember Latin mass from when I was a kid.

 

[Randolph]

To add to and to amplify your point, initially Pope John Paul asked the bishops to be “generous” in providing the EF to the older people who lived prior to Vatican II that were still so attached to the EF, and to the few communities that wanted it. (Although I have no affiliation with SSPX, nor do I support them, to be fair they deserve a lot of credit for pursuing it). But, in a short period of time, young people began to attend the EF and fell in love with it. Per Pope Benedict, in his letter to the bishops accompanying Summorum Pontificum, that was a phenomenon that had not been anticipated by Pope John Paul and the Hierarchy. The enthusiasm and the growth in participation among young people was one of the many reasons Pope Benedict cited for issuing Summorum Pontificum.

It is true that today the total number of people attending the EF is tiny in comparison to those who attend the OF. But considering the almost complete suppression of the EF in the 70’s, 80’s and into the 90’s, this tiny number is indeed no less than remarkable. Keep in mind of the issues of communication, training for priests, Gregorian chant, server training, ad Orientem altar, etc… had to be dealt with appropriately. Only time will tell how this will turn out. But there is no doubt it my mind that the enthusiasm and love for the EF will continue to grow at a good pace.

A confession to make,… I probably was among the young people that Pope Benedict was referring to. I remember attending the EF for the first time in the late 90’s. I will never forget that day. It radically changed my spiritual life and spiritual development. I then learned Latin, learned to serve the Mass, learned to chant, and learned all the symbolisms and particulars of the EF. As the many years passed, I am pleased to have since seen more and more young people are taking the same path that I took. Not to sound boastful or to over-emphasize its importance, the parish church I have been attending for decades now offers every Sunday—an EF low Mass, an English Mass, a Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, and a EF High Mass. On average, the number of people who attend the Latin Mass is easily over 1,000 every Sunday. Within this number, there are lots of young people and young families with children.

 

[commenter]

It is true that today the total number of people attending the EF is tiny in comparison to those who attend the OF. But considering the almost complete suppression of the EF in the 70’s, 80’s and into the 90’s, this tiny number is indeed no less than remarkable. Keep in mind of the issues of communication, training for priests, Gregorian chant, server training, ad Orientem altar, etc… had to be dealt with appropriately. Only time will tell how this will turn out. But there is no doubt it my mind that the enthusiasm and love for the EF will continue to grow at a good pace.

Let’s say that out of 1000 Catholics, 10 are prepared for and exposed to a High Mass in EF a couple times. Let’s assume that of those 10, 5 connect with it and start attending at least occasionally. You might argue that 5 out of 1000 is a tiny percentage, but more important, 5 out of 10 is a very high percentage.

Since Vatican II, the OF has gotten every possible promotion among Catholics. Of all Catholics who have been exposed to it, a very low percentage now go to the OF on a regular basis in the US, and extremely low in France, for instance. Would you say the OF is a measurable “success”?

 

[Randolph]

I pray that the OF will be successful, as I pray the same for the EF. It’s very important to note, per Pope Benedict, the OF and EF are two editions of the same rite. Individually and collectively, both forms are to serve the Church. There is no competition among them.

I realize that I did not answer your question. I prefer not to get into the numbers discussion because numbers themselves can be deceiving.

 

[Entwhistler]

Correct. As long as both “versions” (And I hate saying that word) are said reverently and correctly and as long as they are not denigrated by either side, I don’t care which one you attend. As long as you attend one of them, you are going to Mass. We should praise the EF for getting younger folks more active in their faith. Will this work for all young folks? Of course not, but anything that gets people going to Mass (one that is reverent as noted) is a gain.

 

[runningdude]

It matters not the “scope” of the act. Pope Benadict’s protection and advocacy for taditionally-minded Catholics was central to his ministry, and very close to the retired Pope’s heart. Pope Francis could not reverse Summorum Pontificorum without it being a direct rebuke of his predecessor.

 

[OraLabora]

–Sacrosanctum Concilium, #36; December 4, 1963:

“. . .the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.”

You left out the rest of #36:

“2. But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters.

1. These norms being observed, it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority mentioned in Art. 22, 2, to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used; their decrees are to be approved, that is, confirmed, by the Apostolic See. And, whenever it seems to be called for, this authority is to consult with bishops of neighboring regions which have the same language.
2. Translations from the Latin text into the mother tongue intended for use in the liturgy must be approved by the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority mentioned above."

Latin is rarely, if ever, taught in school now. Moreover, some parts of the world that the Church has expanded into have languages completely detached from Latin, with non-Western alphabets in most cases.

I would argue that this pretty much guarantees the widespread use of the vernacular. And I say this as a Gregorian chorister who attends a Mass with Latin propers and ordinary, albeit in a French (i.e. Latin-derived language) speaking part of the world.

I’m just being realistic.

 

[ProVobis]

“2. But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended.

The Latin was actually “not rarely” but translated as “frequently.” Maybe this is nitpicking a bit I know but it definitely is contradictory if the effect is that vernacular is always to be used all the time.

 

[Randolph]

What you quoted did not at all justify the almost complete suppression of the EF and the use of Latin, nor did it infringe on the insistence of the Council Fathers to preserve the use of Latiin. The use of mother tongue and the use of Latin are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they can exist beautifully together side by side as a bond of unity and continuity.

I fail to understand why there has been a concerted effort in the Church to belittle, to demonize and/or to end the use of Latin—a very important and beautiful language in the Church. The use of and impact of Latin are inseparable from the life and the history of the Church. Church communications, writings and documents for over 1,000 years were done in Latin. Rest assured that world will not end if more people use Latin. Personally, I would argue the wider use of Latin in the Church is a good thing.

It is true, as you stated, that Latin is rarely used now. But, at the very least, every time the EF is said, or a prayer in Latin is said, Latin is being used. The EF is said everyday around the world. People communicate to God in Latin in the EF and in prayers, and God understands it as He understands many, many, many more people communicating to Him in their own mother tongue. I would also think that our Holy Mother would only so gladly and happily accept prayers from her sons and daughters; whether the prayers come to her in the form of “Hail Mary, full of grace…” or “Ave Maria, gratia plena…” or in any language.

Merry Christmas and good tidings to all!!!

 

[pnewton]

It matters not the “scope” of the act. Pope Benadict’s protection and advocacy for taditionally-minded Catholics was central to his ministry, and very close to the retired Pope’s heart. Pope Francis could not reverse Summorum Pontificorum without it being a direct rebuke of his predecessor.

I guess you have your opinion on this. I do not see how it is possible to read so closely in the mind of either Pope Benedict or Pope Francis.

 

[OraLabora]

At our abbey, Latin is used for the propers and ordinary, at Mass. The rest is in French plainchant. I find it a nice balance. Lauds and Vespers are also in Latin Gregorian chant, and the other hours in French plainchant.

The liturgy there, OF of course, is done with beauty and care, what SC really intended.

 

[Augustinian]

Pope Benadict’s protection and advocacy for taditionally-minded Catholics was central to his ministry, and very close to the retired Pope’s heart.

Among all of the things that were happening during Benedict’s pontificate, what makes you believe that Latin Mass was of particular concern to him?

 

[commenter]

Latin is rarely, if ever, taught in school now. Moreover, some parts of the world that the Church has expanded into have languages completely detached from Latin, with non-Western alphabets in most cases.

Latin is having a small but steady increase in recent years, due to emphasis on classical education among home schoolers and the newer classical high schools established in the past few years. These students are still a small percentage of the total Catholics, but a not-small percentage of vocations.

In those countries where the primary language is a non - Western language, there often is widespread knowledge of English, French, or another language influenced by Latin.

 

[Randolph]

Thank you. Indeed, to amplify the point in your post, in recent years, I have seen—in the vernacular OF—the responses, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei (the propers and ordinary) were spoken/sung in Latin in some churches. What a beautiful example of unity and continuity in the Church—strengthening the bond of our past to our present, and preparing us for what’s to come.

I hope and pray that this type of commitment of unity and continuity will become more prevalent in the Church.

 

[Johann_du_Toit]

I detect a hostility to Pope Francis on Lifesite which goes much further than simple prudential criticism of his actions and words. There are a lot of posters on the comments section over there who are open Sedevaticanists.

 

[commenter]

I detect a hostility to Pope Francis on Lifesite which goes much further than simple prudential criticism of his actions and words.

If a website is hostile to Church authority figures, and also supports the Latin Mass, people tend to connect those two things.

 

[Augustinian]

There are a lot of posters on the comments section over there who are open Sedevaticanists.

The term you are looking for is “sedevacantist” not “sedevaticanist”.

But your use of the phrase “open sedevacantist” indicates that you think there are a significant number of covert individuals who don’t belief that Francis is the legitimate pope but are just not “open” about it.

 

[OraLabora]

At the abbey, the introït, Gradual, alleluia, offertory and communion antiphons and verses are in Latin Gregorian chant. The Kyrie is in Greek, the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus and Agnus Dei are in Latin. The Graduale Romanum is their normative book for the Mass. The prayers, including the EP, and the readings are chanted in the vernacular (in this case French), as are the responses.

So the parts most involving the public are vernacular. The monks and schola do the more difficult Latin and Greek Gregorian parts (they use pretty much every Mass setting in the Graduale, appropriate to the circumstances).

Being of the Solesmes Congregation, they take liturgy very serious indeed. When the new Missal in 1970 and Graduale in 1974, and post-Conciliar adaptations of the monastic Breviary, came out, they implemented the changes gradually. It wasn’t until around 1980 that the changes were fully implemented. For the Divine Office, they still used the 1934 Monastic and Solesmes antiphonaires for the music, until the new Monastic Antiphonary was published in phases starting in 2005.

So there was no “wreckovation” of the liturgy after the Council like in many places. It was a careful continuum, and if you ask me, a textbook successful implementation of the changes. It is a work in progress, with tweaks here and there from time to time.

The abbey’s influence extends far beyond the cloister. Its chant masters have inspired and trained diocesan scholas such as the one I sing in, as well as similar ones around the province, as far as 500 km away.

 

[Randolph]

I am pleased to hear it. All of these are within the liturgical prescriptions of the Church and within the realms of what the Council Fathers wanted.

Before the influx of unfair and baseless criticisms take their shape, I hope the Hierarchy and the laity truly, without prejudice, give it a honest try. It is very beatiful and beneficial. Being reverential and being obedient to the rubrics give Christ the proper respect due to Him and the laity the proper focus in the worshiping of God. Pope Benedict was absolutely correct in his relentless commitment to unity and continuity.

 

[pnewton]

Johann_du_Toit:

I detect a hostility to Pope Francis on Lifesite which goes much further than simple prudential criticism of his actions and words.

If a website is hostile to Church authority figures, and also supports the Latin Mass, people tend to connect those two things.

Unfortunately, you are probably right. On the other hand, there are some I have seen here who are as traditionally-minded as anyone, demonstrate charity in all they do. There is no better antidote to poisoned examples than saintly examples.