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callmeChris
Guest
Oh please we have much more evil things and more crucial things harming the Church than a few people speculating. lets not blow something so little into something apocalyptic when it’s not that bad.
Francis to create commission to study female deacons in Catholic church
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Tarpeian
Guest
J
JimG
Guest
Good points. At many parishes and chanceries, women constitute a major portion of the staff.
J
J_Peterson
Guest
Being a Deacon, St. Francis was able to preach as well. This is one of the reasons to allow some sort of female deacon in my opinion, so they can preach the Gospel as well.
T
Thorolfr
Guest
And those cardinals should stop wearing silk and lace. That would be more masculine, too.
C
callmeChris
Guest
I really wish Francis would stop trying to think of “fresh ideas” to “help” the Chruch. He needs to focus on the liturgy and the Church’s infrastructure and Theology. He seems to be more focused on being a public liberal celebrity for the world and trying to please everyone than being a successor to Peter who is steadfast in canon law and the teachings and fundamentals of the Church. He needs to focus on putting more stress and emphasis on the holy and sacred positions women hold in the Church. Nuns, teachers, mothers, female lay…but of course no one cares, they only care about seeing a woman in liturgical robes.
1
1neophyte
Guest
and those cardinals should stop wearing silk and lace. That would be more masculine, too.
C
CNA_News
Guest
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/i...016_Credit_Daniel_Ibez_CNA_4_21_16.jpgVatican City, May 12, 2016 / 10:18 am (CNA/EWTN News).- On Thursday Pope Francis said he would be open to the idea of forming a commission to study the historical context of the female diaconate, as well as the possibility of women serving as deacons today.
He spoke to some 800 members of the International Union of Superiors General (UISG), who are meeting in Rome May 9-13 for their Plenary Assembly, which focuses largely on the role of women in the Church, and obstacles hindering it.
According to Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, during their May 12 audience with the Pope, Francis, in addition to other topics, spoke about the role of women, both consecrated and lay, which is “still weak both in decision-making processes in the Church” and in preaching.
He briefly touched on the temptations of both feminism and clericalism, as well as the question of the presence of women in the permanent diaconate of the Church, saying it would be “useful to establish a commission to study” the topic.
Part of the Church’s sacrament of Holy Orders, the diaconate is currently only open to men.
However, in the lengthy May 12 question-and-answer session with the plenary participants, one of the religious sisters asked the Pope “Why not construct an official commission that might study the question” of opening the diaconate to women.
In response, Francis said he had spoken some time ago with “a good, wise professor” who had studied the topic of female deacons in the early centuries of the church, and noted that their role was primarily linked to assisting the bishop in full-body immersions of women for baptism.
The Pope said that the exact role female deacons played in the early Church is still unclear to him, and recalled asking the professor “What were these female deacons? Did they have ordination or no?”
He said the precise answer “was a bit obscure,” and questioned aloud the possibility of forming an official commission to study the question.
“I believe yes. It would do good for the Church to clarify this point. I am in agreement. I will speak to do something like this,” he said, adding later that “it seems useful to me to have a commission that would clarify this well.”
CNA asked the Vatican for confirmation of the Pope’s remarks, but did not receive a response by deadline.
While Pope Francis has suggested a new commission could be helpful in studying the question further, the International Theological Commission, an advisory body to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, released a document on the diaconate in 2002 in which they addressed the question of whether women might be also be eligible.
The document overwhelmingly concluded that female deacons in the early Church had not been equivalent to male deacons, and had no liturgical or sacramental function.
It reflected what the professor to whom Pope Francis had spoken said, referring to the Constitutiones Apostolorum, or the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles from around 380, which stressed that deaconesses had “no liturgical function,” but rather devoted themselves “to their function in the community which was service to the women.”
The function of a deaconess, the document read, was summed up in the constitutions thus: “The deaconess does not bless, and she does not fulfil any of the things that priests and deacons do, but she looks after the doors and attends the priests during the baptism of women, for the sake of decency.”
While deaconesses were able to carry out the anointing of women in baptism for decency’s sake and to visit sick women in their homes, “they were forbidden to confer baptism themselves, or to play a part in the Eucharistic offering.”
Even in the fourth century, the document read, “the way of life of deaconesses was very similar to that of nuns.”
While history proves that the ministry of female deacons did indeed exist, the text noted that it was “developed unevenly” in the different parts of the Church, and that affirmed that it is clear “that this ministry was not perceived as simply the feminine equivalent of the masculine diaconate.”
Divided into seven chapters and a conclusion, the document’s second to last paragraph addresses the question of the ordination of women to the diaconate today.
While the general tone was that the question needed further study, the document offered two points of reflection for future consideration.
First, it mentioned that the deaconesses referred to in the ancient Church, “as evidenced by the rite of institution and the functions they exercised – were not purely and simply equivalent to the deacons.”
Secondly, it asserted that “the unity of the sacrament of Holy Orders…is strongly underlined by ecclesial tradition, especially in the teaching of the Magisterium,” and stressed the “clear distinction” between the ministry of priests and bishops versus that of deacons.
The document concluded with no clear indication either way, but instead simply stated that the question “pertains to the ministry of discernment which the Lord established in his Church to pronounce authoritatively on this question.”
feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/catholicnewsagency/dailynews?d=yIl2AUoC8zA
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/catholicnewsagency/dailynews/~4/QoUASTmjnYA
Full article…
He spoke to some 800 members of the International Union of Superiors General (UISG), who are meeting in Rome May 9-13 for their Plenary Assembly, which focuses largely on the role of women in the Church, and obstacles hindering it.
According to Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, during their May 12 audience with the Pope, Francis, in addition to other topics, spoke about the role of women, both consecrated and lay, which is “still weak both in decision-making processes in the Church” and in preaching.
He briefly touched on the temptations of both feminism and clericalism, as well as the question of the presence of women in the permanent diaconate of the Church, saying it would be “useful to establish a commission to study” the topic.
Part of the Church’s sacrament of Holy Orders, the diaconate is currently only open to men.
However, in the lengthy May 12 question-and-answer session with the plenary participants, one of the religious sisters asked the Pope “Why not construct an official commission that might study the question” of opening the diaconate to women.
In response, Francis said he had spoken some time ago with “a good, wise professor” who had studied the topic of female deacons in the early centuries of the church, and noted that their role was primarily linked to assisting the bishop in full-body immersions of women for baptism.
The Pope said that the exact role female deacons played in the early Church is still unclear to him, and recalled asking the professor “What were these female deacons? Did they have ordination or no?”
He said the precise answer “was a bit obscure,” and questioned aloud the possibility of forming an official commission to study the question.
“I believe yes. It would do good for the Church to clarify this point. I am in agreement. I will speak to do something like this,” he said, adding later that “it seems useful to me to have a commission that would clarify this well.”
CNA asked the Vatican for confirmation of the Pope’s remarks, but did not receive a response by deadline.
While Pope Francis has suggested a new commission could be helpful in studying the question further, the International Theological Commission, an advisory body to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, released a document on the diaconate in 2002 in which they addressed the question of whether women might be also be eligible.
The document overwhelmingly concluded that female deacons in the early Church had not been equivalent to male deacons, and had no liturgical or sacramental function.
It reflected what the professor to whom Pope Francis had spoken said, referring to the Constitutiones Apostolorum, or the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles from around 380, which stressed that deaconesses had “no liturgical function,” but rather devoted themselves “to their function in the community which was service to the women.”
The function of a deaconess, the document read, was summed up in the constitutions thus: “The deaconess does not bless, and she does not fulfil any of the things that priests and deacons do, but she looks after the doors and attends the priests during the baptism of women, for the sake of decency.”
While deaconesses were able to carry out the anointing of women in baptism for decency’s sake and to visit sick women in their homes, “they were forbidden to confer baptism themselves, or to play a part in the Eucharistic offering.”
Even in the fourth century, the document read, “the way of life of deaconesses was very similar to that of nuns.”
While history proves that the ministry of female deacons did indeed exist, the text noted that it was “developed unevenly” in the different parts of the Church, and that affirmed that it is clear “that this ministry was not perceived as simply the feminine equivalent of the masculine diaconate.”
Divided into seven chapters and a conclusion, the document’s second to last paragraph addresses the question of the ordination of women to the diaconate today.
While the general tone was that the question needed further study, the document offered two points of reflection for future consideration.
First, it mentioned that the deaconesses referred to in the ancient Church, “as evidenced by the rite of institution and the functions they exercised – were not purely and simply equivalent to the deacons.”
Secondly, it asserted that “the unity of the sacrament of Holy Orders…is strongly underlined by ecclesial tradition, especially in the teaching of the Magisterium,” and stressed the “clear distinction” between the ministry of priests and bishops versus that of deacons.
The document concluded with no clear indication either way, but instead simply stated that the question “pertains to the ministry of discernment which the Lord established in his Church to pronounce authoritatively on this question.”
feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/catholicnewsagency/dailynews?d=yIl2AUoC8zA
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/catholicnewsagency/dailynews/~4/QoUASTmjnYA
Full article…
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clem456
Guest
Has anyone taken the time to read what Pope Francis actually said?
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R_H_Benson
Guest
Indeed. The Protestantization of the Holy Catholic Church continues.
1
1neophyte
Guest
What fun would that be? Isn’t it more edifying to complain about femininity and Protestantization?
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
My personal favorites are the silk slippers and the trains.And those cardinals should stop wearing silk and lace. That would be more masculine, too.
P
pensmama87
Guest
Unfortunately, this makes it sound like the women who have stepped up to do this, seeing a need, should just go home and…what? Let all this stuff crumble? Give our already stretched and stressed priests even more to handle alone?
There isn’t an easy solution.
My husband and I do take our roles as parents seriously, and we both volunteer at our parish and will encourage our sons to do the same, but I’m not going to quit and don’t think I should, either.
(I have no desire to pretend that I can be ordained, either, and am generally very traditionally minded.)
There isn’t an easy solution.
My husband and I do take our roles as parents seriously, and we both volunteer at our parish and will encourage our sons to do the same, but I’m not going to quit and don’t think I should, either.
(I have no desire to pretend that I can be ordained, either, and am generally very traditionally minded.)
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
Some bishops do not even want MALE permanent Deacons in their diocese.
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ComplineSanFran
Guest
You are very kind to elaborate on the Pope’s job description. Perhaps he is doing all the things you recommend AND cleaning house AND listening to the Holy Spirit AND moving the Church forward in the direction the Spirit is calling.
And BTW, women look quite good in liturgical robes.
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twf
Guest
Very true. From what I’ve read, permanent deacons are quite rare outside of the US and Italy (with a few other exceptions scattered here and there). In Western Canada they are almost unheard of. The Archdiocese of Vancouver now has several, but the formation program for permanent deacons was only instituted within the last 5 years or so. In a neighbouring diocese (my home diocese), the bishop has made it very clear that there will NOT be permanent deacons.
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twf
Guest
Deaconesses existed. There is no doubt about that. I personally believe that they received a special sacramental (not the sacrament of holy orders), and thus was a distinct order from the male diaconate. This sort of sacramental would be akin to the subdiaconate (which is also not part of the sacrament of holy orders), the consecration of virgins, the blessing of abbots and abbesses.
T
tawny
Guest
Agree.Yup.
I doubt it will ever come to pass anyway.
There is a trend to Lay Ecclesical Ministry.
Those of us who received that certification are not even recognized as having Theology degrees by some clergy.
I can’t imagine anyone will jump on board the Deaconess bandwagon.
But it will interesting to read the Commission’s report anyway.
Posters will have a field day.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
When I was in discernment for the Diaconate, we had a class on the history of the Diaconate in the Catholic Church…
Permanent Deacons were part of the early Church and for hundreds of years after. They reported directly to the Bishop. In fact, they were considered the eyes and ears of the Bishop, and they reported to the Bishop, what they heard and saw in the communities where they served. This was an issue for the presbyters, who resented having the Bishop’s spies to watch them and it was they who worked to end the ministry, and this lasted for centuries.
Deaconesses, were generally the wives of ordained deacons and even priests, and their role was mostly caring for females of the congregation, which included preparing female bodies for burial. They did not receive Holy Orders as Deacons did.
Should the Diaconate be open to women ?
I don’t know, but just like ordination to the priesthood, we should pray about it and accept whatever God’s will comes out of it.
Jim
Permanent Deacons were part of the early Church and for hundreds of years after. They reported directly to the Bishop. In fact, they were considered the eyes and ears of the Bishop, and they reported to the Bishop, what they heard and saw in the communities where they served. This was an issue for the presbyters, who resented having the Bishop’s spies to watch them and it was they who worked to end the ministry, and this lasted for centuries.
Deaconesses, were generally the wives of ordained deacons and even priests, and their role was mostly caring for females of the congregation, which included preparing female bodies for burial. They did not receive Holy Orders as Deacons did.
Should the Diaconate be open to women ?
I don’t know, but just like ordination to the priesthood, we should pray about it and accept whatever God’s will comes out of it.
Jim
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